Bible scholars; Help me out with this one.

Shoku · Post by **Shoku** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:27 am

1ACE1 wrote:Only the facts matter, and not everything taught anywhere is all true.

I agree with that. But you said:

The Bible is infallible gramatically. This obviously only applies to the original Greek and Hebrew.

And that is wrong.

Yes, the errors do not detract from the truth, but they are there nevertheless. The fact that God would have unschooled men pen his word is just another indication of how much he inspired its writing. His word is truth, even if it is not grammatically correct. This could very well be one way to weed out those who do not want to believe. It's not how something is written that matters. What matters is how we respond to what is said.

Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Admiral Thrawn** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:56 am

Can you please explain how one can have free will when god has a plan? If god has a plan how can anything you do be considered free will at all? Is this a new concept invented by people trying to explain away their poor behavior?

I'll address the original question. Dont' feel like reading through the topic anyway, because if it's anything like religious topics in the past, it's just flame material anyway.

Yes, God does have a plan, but he's also a loving god. Free will was given to humans out of love. It wouldn't have been a loving thing for god to create humans and then decide that this person will be poor, this one will be rich, etc... We are free to make the choices that we desire to make.

Now, God can see the future, but out of love, he does not always use this ability. He can see the very nature of a person, but he gives that person the opportunity to make the decisions that they make in life. God's word, the bible is there as an instrument to help us determine right from wrong, and to reason on points and situations not directly mentioned in the bible, but by reviewing examples from the bible, we can determine if they are right or wrong.

But back to the point, god does have a plan and that plan is CLEARLY outlined in the bible. The bible itself does not give any indication that god has a predetermined fate outlined for every man and woman. That would contradict the fact that god is a loving god and it would also contradict the issue of God's sovereignty.

Is this a new concept invented by people trying to explain away their poor behavior?

No, it's people's piss poor way of justifying their immoral or selfish actions. People will try to twist bible truths and teachings to suit their own motives. As a matter of fact, this is a HUGE problem in religion nowadays.

1ACE1 · Post by **1ACE1** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:46 pm

However, our will is subject to sin, and depravity. We know from the Bible that man is inherently unrighteous. The ones that come to salvation through God, come to Him by His leading. God made that choice before the foundations of the earth as is stated in Ephesians 1.

Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Admiral Thrawn** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:12 pm

God made that choice before the foundations of the earth as is stated in Ephesians 1.

It can be easily taken that way, but... let's consider Zeph 2:3. And after reading that, ask yourself this question "Would a just and loving God encourage people to do what is right, in hope of a reward, if he knew that they were foreordained not to succeed?" That would be pretty mean wouldn't it?

Also, in order to understand the issue of sin, you first have to understand "why" sin exists as far as the issue of God's sovereignty? Before I answer that, do you know what that answer is? And let's get a little deeper than just Adamn and Eve biting into the apple.

Shoku · Post by **Shoku** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:55 pm

Admiral Thrawn wrote: It can be easily taken that way, but... let's consider Zeph 2:3. And after reading that, ask yourself this question "Would a just and loving God encourage people to do what is right, in hope of a reward, if he knew that they were foreordained not to succeed?" That would be pretty mean wouldn't it?

I've already brought this up in an earlier post:

Zeph. 2:3: â??Seek the LORD, all you meek ones of the earth . . . Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you may be concealed in the day of the LORD's anger.â?

1ACE1 · Post by **1ACE1** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:34 pm

The Zephenia passage is speaking to Israel when they were in the midst of idol worship of Baal. This was a warning because God was going to judge them while on the earth. Those that fled from unrighteousness in such times were usually spared. Israel's history is one of betrayal, and renewal with God.