Hi Y'all ! I've been researching that neurotransmitter called DMT for a while now, and so I thought I'd pop a thread up here for interest sake to see who might offer some feedback.
Check this link out; some facts about the nutrition of the brain, and ideas about waking vs sleeping "consciousness" .
http://www.acutcmdetox.com/tryptophan2.html
And the nutritional facts relating diet to depression / moods and serotonin / melatonin levels seem worth posting here to see if anyone else knows about these things.. Does anyone know about this from personal experience ?
I don't expect to induce a DMT surge in my brain (and the altered states of consciousness it produces) in my daily life based on diet changes, but I do wonder if increasing tryptophan sources in ones diet, combined with other meditative or fasting or 'trance' techniques can enable one to make the pineal gland be more active and to secrete a little of it's own DMT?... That's just naiive musing, parlour-neuroscience if you will, .. but has anyone here on the DBB used changes in (food) diet to explicitly change mood or predispose one to altered psychic states..?
I still haven't found an "exogenous" source of pure DMT to experiment with (anyone know a chemist ..?), so I'm still mulling over such ideas about eating a daily amount of whey protein, ... just to see if I have a change in mood or a change in either 'sleeping' or waking consciousness.
Not expecting that this thread will go "far" .. I just thought I'd see who's got comments, or some experience to relate... Jokes aside about having a psychoactive milk experience, or about psychoactive whey protein trips ... !
DMT, brain nutrition...
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El Ka Bong
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I do know that bird meat is loaded with Trytophans and is therefore to be avoided during the day - as it reduces the ability to remember things.
Turkey is the worst offender, with (from memory) 22 times the amoutn of Tryptophans as Chicken. Simply put, if you eat a big meal of turkey, it's practically impossible to stay awake.
I think 250 Million Americans would probably agree, as they're all asleep come 4pm on Thanksgiving!
As to DMT - I have never heard of it. But, knowing what I know about Tryptophans, I doubt it's a good idea to increase the level in your blood stream - unless you're having trouble sleeping!
Turkey is the worst offender, with (from memory) 22 times the amoutn of Tryptophans as Chicken. Simply put, if you eat a big meal of turkey, it's practically impossible to stay awake.
I think 250 Million Americans would probably agree, as they're all asleep come 4pm on Thanksgiving!
As to DMT - I have never heard of it. But, knowing what I know about Tryptophans, I doubt it's a good idea to increase the level in your blood stream - unless you're having trouble sleeping!
coincidentally i've been reading up these subjects lately. how'd you know that? have i been talking about it here or something?
i'll read the article, but first, since you wanted me to chime in, i may as well first of all plonk down here what's already currently fresh on my mind. no doubt the article talks about most of this.
tryptophan is commonly found in protein rich foods (iirc the most famous source would probabaly be TURKEY meat, as i start to talk about how tryptophan relates to seretonin - you'll see why eating a huge meal of turkey makes you feel sleepy, tired, good and contented). to cross the blood/brain barrier however - it competes with some other proteins. so the theory is to load your system with glucose (generally from carbohydrates) which triggers your body produces more insulin (to get rid of the glucose), which in turn moves these other competing proteins into your muscles. this in turn leaves the blood/brain barrier chemical pathways more open to tryptophan.
getting tryptophan into your body and then getting it through your blood/brain barrier is important, because tryptophan is used to make seretonin.
apart from other important uses in the brain, seretonin is known as one of the "feel good" neurotransmitters - it makes you calm, relaxed, and feel good. all of the SSRI drugs on the market (prozac, paxil, zoloft, etcetc) act on seretonin. iirc seretonin is actually what makes you feel really good after a long workout session - where your whole body feels tired and you feel really relaxed and nice - it's actually the seretonin that causes this feeling, with it's ability to somewhat surpress your central nervous system (CNS). ppl may have heard about serotonin's natural ability to surpress/control aspects of the CNS in regards to violent offenders and how research has somewhat recently found that violent offenders generally have naturally LOW levels of brain serotonin - and this has been theorised to be directly responsable for their anti-social problems which end them up in jail.
i was just reading about this last week, check it out... weightlifters actually want the opposite, they want to CUT DOWN the amount of serotonin comming into their brains because it makes you feel tired and contented - and they don't want that coz they want to be able to keep working-out nonstop - they don't want their brains limiting their muscles' potential.
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/NutrFatigue.htm
another handy link i came across was this one.http://www.benbest.com/science/anatmind/anatmd10.html
which seems like a good introduction to Brain Neurotransmitters.
iirc serotonin is also used by the pineal gland, the gland in the brain a bit above and behind the eyes which is commonly referred to as THE 3RD EYE - partially because it is stimulated by ultraviolet light as the eyes are - and partially because it has a lot to do with spirituality, and is even theorised to be the seat of the soul itself. anyway, the pineal gland also produces meletonin, which is a chemical to do with sleep and longevity.
yes, you can tweak your diet to put more tryptophan and therefore serotonin into your brain.
iirc you can actually buy tryptophan supliments. if you want to go the more direct route.
to confuse matters, my brain neurochemistry is actually different to most people. so i read these things differently to how most people would.
my diabeties affords me the ability/curse of directly controlling the amount of insulin in my system, which in turn directly effects various brain neurotransmitters (like beta-endorphin) and the amount of tryptophan crossing my blood/brain barrier.
in the past i have been able to predictably put myself into blissfull altered states of consciousness, just from insulin and sugar control. but the method is dangerous because you can be juggling with ketoacidosis and even coma.
i can't remember if i mentioned this above somewhere. but the simplified method of increasing brain seretonin levels is to to eat carbohydrates a little while after eating protein.
ok... reading article
bbl
i'll read the article, but first, since you wanted me to chime in, i may as well first of all plonk down here what's already currently fresh on my mind. no doubt the article talks about most of this.
tryptophan is commonly found in protein rich foods (iirc the most famous source would probabaly be TURKEY meat, as i start to talk about how tryptophan relates to seretonin - you'll see why eating a huge meal of turkey makes you feel sleepy, tired, good and contented). to cross the blood/brain barrier however - it competes with some other proteins. so the theory is to load your system with glucose (generally from carbohydrates) which triggers your body produces more insulin (to get rid of the glucose), which in turn moves these other competing proteins into your muscles. this in turn leaves the blood/brain barrier chemical pathways more open to tryptophan.
getting tryptophan into your body and then getting it through your blood/brain barrier is important, because tryptophan is used to make seretonin.
apart from other important uses in the brain, seretonin is known as one of the "feel good" neurotransmitters - it makes you calm, relaxed, and feel good. all of the SSRI drugs on the market (prozac, paxil, zoloft, etcetc) act on seretonin. iirc seretonin is actually what makes you feel really good after a long workout session - where your whole body feels tired and you feel really relaxed and nice - it's actually the seretonin that causes this feeling, with it's ability to somewhat surpress your central nervous system (CNS). ppl may have heard about serotonin's natural ability to surpress/control aspects of the CNS in regards to violent offenders and how research has somewhat recently found that violent offenders generally have naturally LOW levels of brain serotonin - and this has been theorised to be directly responsable for their anti-social problems which end them up in jail.
i was just reading about this last week, check it out... weightlifters actually want the opposite, they want to CUT DOWN the amount of serotonin comming into their brains because it makes you feel tired and contented - and they don't want that coz they want to be able to keep working-out nonstop - they don't want their brains limiting their muscles' potential.
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/NutrFatigue.htm
another handy link i came across was this one.http://www.benbest.com/science/anatmind/anatmd10.html
which seems like a good introduction to Brain Neurotransmitters.
iirc serotonin is also used by the pineal gland, the gland in the brain a bit above and behind the eyes which is commonly referred to as THE 3RD EYE - partially because it is stimulated by ultraviolet light as the eyes are - and partially because it has a lot to do with spirituality, and is even theorised to be the seat of the soul itself. anyway, the pineal gland also produces meletonin, which is a chemical to do with sleep and longevity.
yes, you can tweak your diet to put more tryptophan and therefore serotonin into your brain.
how's that for an increase heh, prozac eat your heart out. tweaking your diet is a MUCH better way of increasing available brain seretonin than taking SSRI drugs. but lets just say that it's not exactly a strongly advertised point from pharmacological industry, because it doesn't move drugs off shelvesthat brain neurotransmitters site i linked to above wrote:...virtually all brain tryptophan is converted to serotonin. Serotonin concentration in the brain is far more sensitive to the effects of diet than any other monoamine neurotransmitter -- and can be increased up to 10-fold by dietary supplementation in laboratory animals.
iirc you can actually buy tryptophan supliments. if you want to go the more direct route.
to confuse matters, my brain neurochemistry is actually different to most people. so i read these things differently to how most people would.
my diabeties affords me the ability/curse of directly controlling the amount of insulin in my system, which in turn directly effects various brain neurotransmitters (like beta-endorphin) and the amount of tryptophan crossing my blood/brain barrier.
in the past i have been able to predictably put myself into blissfull altered states of consciousness, just from insulin and sugar control. but the method is dangerous because you can be juggling with ketoacidosis and even coma.
i can't remember if i mentioned this above somewhere. but the simplified method of increasing brain seretonin levels is to to eat carbohydrates a little while after eating protein.
ok... reading article
bbl
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El Ka Bong
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Pure amino acids are not pyschoactive, although tryptophan makes you sleepy, and phenethylamine makes one 'awake'
I think the turkey myth is partly tryptophan levels, but also mostly due to the way the body reacts to the heavy protein in a turkey burger, and has to send lots of blood to the messenteric tissue of the gut, and so the brain gets sleepy from blood being shunted elsewhere, ... easier to digest a big dinner when dosing, ... zzzz. .zzz. zz. z.
And so I've been told, women can alter symptoms of pms with dietary changes, avoiding certain foods to dampen the mood and physiological crappiness of pms.
You are what you eat, obviously, ..
I tend to think of food as the way I derive energy (CH2O's), protein to Build cells and fats to make cell mebranes, and up keep the physical growth of my body, and only lately I'm considering food as: "You are as conscious as what you eat"...
But the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB) isolates the brain, and so brain nutrition is specialized, exotic and unique compared to all the rest of body metabolism. Outside the BBB, in all the rest of your 'body', food you eat makes your physical being; bones, muscles and cells of the 'vessel' that supports our brains, and physcic being.
Inside the BBB are all the biochemicals, neuro transmitters and chemistry that creates You, the conscious psychic entity, the mind, ego, Id and all we know ... very few "food stuffs" like Tryptophan make it through the BBB.
If we are what we eat, do any of us pay attention to our diets enough to know as much as say, women do about altering their diets to deliberately affect brain metabolism and nutrition during the time before pms set in .. ?
DMT aside, ... there are many other neuro transmitters, the stuff inside the BBB. Which of these can we affect through diet...? (lots, it would seem.... The old MSG syndrome, after eating too much chinese food cooked with too much flavour enhancer ( glutamate in MSG is another major exitatory neurotransmitter..) .. .
I'll Google "Shaman diet" ... And then check out Carlos Castenada for whatever Don Juan was puting into those refried beans... !
I think the turkey myth is partly tryptophan levels, but also mostly due to the way the body reacts to the heavy protein in a turkey burger, and has to send lots of blood to the messenteric tissue of the gut, and so the brain gets sleepy from blood being shunted elsewhere, ... easier to digest a big dinner when dosing, ... zzzz. .zzz. zz. z.
And so I've been told, women can alter symptoms of pms with dietary changes, avoiding certain foods to dampen the mood and physiological crappiness of pms.
You are what you eat, obviously, ..
I tend to think of food as the way I derive energy (CH2O's), protein to Build cells and fats to make cell mebranes, and up keep the physical growth of my body, and only lately I'm considering food as: "You are as conscious as what you eat"...
But the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB) isolates the brain, and so brain nutrition is specialized, exotic and unique compared to all the rest of body metabolism. Outside the BBB, in all the rest of your 'body', food you eat makes your physical being; bones, muscles and cells of the 'vessel' that supports our brains, and physcic being.
Inside the BBB are all the biochemicals, neuro transmitters and chemistry that creates You, the conscious psychic entity, the mind, ego, Id and all we know ... very few "food stuffs" like Tryptophan make it through the BBB.
If we are what we eat, do any of us pay attention to our diets enough to know as much as say, women do about altering their diets to deliberately affect brain metabolism and nutrition during the time before pms set in .. ?
DMT aside, ... there are many other neuro transmitters, the stuff inside the BBB. Which of these can we affect through diet...? (lots, it would seem.... The old MSG syndrome, after eating too much chinese food cooked with too much flavour enhancer ( glutamate in MSG is another major exitatory neurotransmitter..) .. .
I'll Google "Shaman diet" ... And then check out Carlos Castenada for whatever Don Juan was puting into those refried beans... !
i've seen DMT mentioned, but as yet havn't read anything specific about it.
i must say was a little alarmed by the mentioning of the "dark room treatment". because i was under the previous impression that the pineal gland is directly stimulated by sunlight, and since the pineal gland regulates various body rhythms - starving yourself of sunlight would have a BAD effect not a good effect.
what i was talking about above with tryptophan competing with other proteins to get through the BBB. that wasn't correct, instead of "proteins" i should have said large neutral amino acids (or branched-chain amino acids?). the links between the tryptophan and large neutral amino acids is referred to in your linked article as the Trp-LNAA ratio - although it did not mention the method of stimulating insulin release to enhance the Trp-LNAA ratio even further - perhaps because that acts on BCAA, not LNAA *slaps forehead*.
as you may have gathered, i'm no chemist. i don't know animo acids from my elbow.
edit 14th July 2004: argh! i'm not sure what is what. i'm reading conflicting reports.
i must say was a little alarmed by the mentioning of the "dark room treatment". because i was under the previous impression that the pineal gland is directly stimulated by sunlight, and since the pineal gland regulates various body rhythms - starving yourself of sunlight would have a BAD effect not a good effect.
what i was talking about above with tryptophan competing with other proteins to get through the BBB. that wasn't correct, instead of "proteins" i should have said large neutral amino acids (or branched-chain amino acids?). the links between the tryptophan and large neutral amino acids is referred to in your linked article as the Trp-LNAA ratio - although it did not mention the method of stimulating insulin release to enhance the Trp-LNAA ratio even further - perhaps because that acts on BCAA, not LNAA *slaps forehead*.
as you may have gathered, i'm no chemist. i don't know animo acids from my elbow.
edit 14th July 2004: argh! i'm not sure what is what. i'm reading conflicting reports.
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El Ka Bong
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Hah !~ Roid you post while I edit out my remark to you ..? ! .. I thought maybe I shouldn't point the fuzzy question at anyone in particular, so now pardon my edit ! simply synchronistic, .. it's ok .. !
I wondered about extreme athletes' diets.. being more all about the body, perhaps missing the focus on the psyche.... and what that could tell us compared to say, someone eating refried beans all the time...?
So then Roid, .. to balance all that neuro and physio' chemistry you are very attentive to diet ?
I wondered about extreme athletes' diets.. being more all about the body, perhaps missing the focus on the psyche.... and what that could tell us compared to say, someone eating refried beans all the time...?
So then Roid, .. to balance all that neuro and physio' chemistry you are very attentive to diet ?
since eating is a constant academic exercise - i'm not really a fan of eating at all anymore, and generally avoid food and thoughts of it's preperation as much as i can.
i SHOULD be attentive to nutrition... but i'm not, generally i just eat what i can stomache from whatever's available.
and over the years i've developed such a psychosomatic lack of hunger it borders on anorexia.
diabetic ketoacidosis is the ultimate diet tool
. i simply give myself less insulin and waste away whatever weight i don't want.
i started to read some stuff on DMT. VERY interesting stuff indeed.
i SHOULD be attentive to nutrition... but i'm not, generally i just eat what i can stomache from whatever's available.
and over the years i've developed such a psychosomatic lack of hunger it borders on anorexia.
diabetic ketoacidosis is the ultimate diet tool
. i simply give myself less insulin and waste away whatever weight i don't want.i started to read some stuff on DMT. VERY interesting stuff indeed.
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Testiculese
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Tryptophan has very little effect on me. I eat half the bird every holiday and I go to bed as usual. The drive to my parents house (4 hours) drains me far more than the turkey.
The whey protien suppliment = seratonin seems pretty accurate. I always feel elated after drinking the milkshake, prior to exercise.
The whey protien suppliment = seratonin seems pretty accurate. I always feel elated after drinking the milkshake, prior to exercise.
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El Ka Bong
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it's too bad it's so impossible to test levels of neurotransmitters within the brain. there is a rather painful test you can do where they tap the lumber spinal fluid. it's not pleasant, and i'm unsure if the lumber spinal fluid levels of things like seretonin even corellate with levels in the brain.
i can casually test things like glucose readings from blood and ketone readings from urine. and it seems that this Trp-LNAA ratio is tested in the blood - abiet in a laboratory setting (hardly casual). it's so difficult and/or dangerous to get readings from within the brain itself. i think the best tool we can use is our feelings. we need to learn to recognise the various textures that are produced by swings in brain chemistry. a great way to do this is with drugs.
(antagonists in capitals and underlined, neurotransmitters bolded)
- most of us know how an ALCOHOL high feels - and from what i read that's mostly caused by a rush of beta-endorphin, and is therefore very similar to the high that you get from SUGAR (also acts on beta-endorphin) abiet without the stupor.
- iirc stimulents like CAFFINE and COCCAINE act primarily on dopamine.
- we've already talked about seretonin - apart from raising your dietry tryptophan intake, a good way of experiencing what a high level of serotonin feels like would probabaly be to take a course of SSRIs.
that's just a start. with this kindof experience, you can develop direct tactile familuarity with and an understanding of various neurotransmitters. then use this familarity to develop/practice using language to describe what is going on biochemically in your brain - from how you feel.
i can casually test things like glucose readings from blood and ketone readings from urine. and it seems that this Trp-LNAA ratio is tested in the blood - abiet in a laboratory setting (hardly casual). it's so difficult and/or dangerous to get readings from within the brain itself. i think the best tool we can use is our feelings. we need to learn to recognise the various textures that are produced by swings in brain chemistry. a great way to do this is with drugs.
(antagonists in capitals and underlined, neurotransmitters bolded)
- most of us know how an ALCOHOL high feels - and from what i read that's mostly caused by a rush of beta-endorphin, and is therefore very similar to the high that you get from SUGAR (also acts on beta-endorphin) abiet without the stupor.
- iirc stimulents like CAFFINE and COCCAINE act primarily on dopamine.
- we've already talked about seretonin - apart from raising your dietry tryptophan intake, a good way of experiencing what a high level of serotonin feels like would probabaly be to take a course of SSRIs.
that's just a start. with this kindof experience, you can develop direct tactile familuarity with and an understanding of various neurotransmitters. then use this familarity to develop/practice using language to describe what is going on biochemically in your brain - from how you feel.
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Testiculese
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