porn hidden in GTA game

[roid]

[quote]http://www.mediafamily.org/mediawise/gta_facts.shtml
How did the pornography get into the game?
We donâ??t know the answer to this question yet. Either the game publisher, Rockstar, programmed the code onto the disk which was then discovered by avid gamers OR what is know as a â??modâ?

[DCrazy]

Ugh, can you just link the (rather long) Gamespot article?

Basically it says "at first, it was thought to be a mod which added sexual content to GTA. Rockstar claimed that it was the work of "hackers" who "reverse-engineered" the code. Then word got out that the "mod" merely unlocked existing code in GTA, thus proving that Rockstar had indeed created the sexually explicit scenes themselves."

Really, I'm upset and disturbed. For the longest time, gamers have defended videogames from undue criticism from parents who claim that it is the responsibility of the game makers to tone down their products' violent themes. Now, Rockstar has gone and given the uninformed a perfectly valid argument, not only by creating a product that violated the ESRB rating system which has worked very well for years, but by attempting to villainize those who exposed a feature that Rockstar had tried to cover up. I imagine that someone at Rockstar realized "we're never gonna get an M rating with this stuff in here", so they merely masked its existence. But to lie about how it was exposed violates any trust that the industry has been trying to regain in its self-regulation system.

Thanks for fueling the fires of those who want the government to regulate what media teenagers want to access. Thanks for nothing, Rockstar.

[roid]

Ugh, can you just link the (rather long) Gamespot article?

no-one would click it to read it. i wasn't thinking particularly well at the time so i couldn't put in any commentary (i planned on comming back and saying something later when i was thinking better). i wanted to have a thread on this but didn't want to wait till i was feeling better. and i didn't want the sub-coherent attempt, that my opinion would have been typed with at the time, to take attention away.

Basically it says "at first, it was thought to be a mod which added sexual content to GTA. Rockstar claimed that it was the work of "hackers" who "reverse-engineered" the code. Then word got out that the "mod" merely unlocked existing code in GTA, thus proving that Rockstar had indeed created the sexually explicit scenes themselves."

Really, I'm upset and disturbed. For the longest time, gamers have defended videogames from undue criticism from parents who claim that it is the responsibility of the game makers to tone down their products' violent themes. Now, Rockstar has gone and given the uninformed a perfectly valid argument, not only by creating a product that violated the ESRB rating system which has worked very well for years, but by attempting to villainize those who exposed a feature that Rockstar had tried to cover up. I imagine that someone at Rockstar realized "we're never gonna get an M rating with this stuff in here", so they merely masked its existence. But to lie about how it was exposed violates any trust that the industry has been trying to regain in its self-regulation system.

Thanks for fueling the fires of those who want the government to regulate what media teenagers want to access. Thanks for nothing, Rockstar.

exactly

[Gooberman]

No such thing as bad press. They have become the video game "bad boys," if such a thing is possible. No matter what their next game is, it will sell as well as GTA:SA.

[Ferno]

Amazing that people get this worked up over porn.

[fliptw]

Amazing that people get this worked up over porn.

Amazing the rest of the game's content still goes unnoticed.

Even more amazing, the default reaction is to propose legsliation that censors in the name of making things easier on parents.

If its really about the children, then sanity would dictate less working hours for parents, rather than guilt/responsibility shifting from parents to corporations and government.

[Top Gun]

As Tycho's PA news said about the description for a Mature game rating, "We have another name for this type of content. It's called 'rated R.'" Honestly, the majority of R-rated movies have more explicit sexual content than the description of that scene; last time I checked, most parents with half a brain cell don't let ten-year-olds in to these types of movies. And yet they seem perfectly content to let their children buy M-rated games that are clearly labeled for ages 17 and up, the same as an R-rated movie, and then raise a hue and cry when they actually find out what these games contain. Now I'm not condoning the content of the GTA games (personally, I think that having gratuitous violence as the entire point of the game is pretty immature), or Rockstar's decision to add content like this (which, as DCrazy said, is just plain asinine), but come on. I'm guessing that "parental responsibility" no longer means anything, does it?

[Tetrad]

1) This isn't the first time something like this has happened. I doubt any of you remember this, but the ending of SimCopter had all the sim-denizens of your city turn flesh colored, grow huge phalluses and hump each other. Granted each of these characters was probably 50 polys so it wasn't like it was photorealistic or anything, and it was also hidden from the ESRB. I don't know why I'm bring this up.

2) I can completely sympathize with Rockstar leaving it in. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it as they say. It's much easier to just take out the hook into a system than remove the entire system itself.

3) I object to it being called "porn". If anything it's a sex-related minigame.

4) According to the Wiki:

The ESRB has been accused of not rating games harshly enough for violence. The ESRB has never given out the AO rating for violence alone. Games like Manhunt have shown gruesome violence such as decapitation yet only got the M rating, which is supposed to be the movie equivilent of the R rating. Many critics have claimed that game deserves the AO rating.

Critics have claimed that the ESRB will only rate games AO if they have sex in them, regardless of how much violent content is in them. 18 games have been given the AO rating. One was given it for Online gambling. The rest were given it for "Strong Sexual Content." One of the games with "Strong Sexual Content" also had "Realistic Blood & Gore", Riana Rouge, and another one had "Violence", Critical Point. Critical point is a hentai game, and Riana Rougue has Playboy Playmates in lesbian scenes which leads some critics to believe that these games were rated AO because of sex, not violence.

Personally I think that even including this minigame it shouldn't be more than an "M" rating. And while I understand the position the ESRB is in, I think that this is both heavy-handed with sex-related rating and is a cop out by focusing all of the blame on Rockstar. Of course the cop out bit is only true if they see my way as the title still being an M game, which I doubt for previously stated reasons. But still, the original SiN had a scene where you could see the antagonist (Elexis Sinclair) masturbating in a tub through a video monitor and was only rated M.

5) On a personal note, I'm annoyed that this has taken away all the "25 to life" controversy even before the game has shipped (if it's going to even ship, ha), as I think we'd get a bit of the royalities.

[woodchip]

Funny how in Gothic 2 you can go to the local bordello and pay to have sex yet the game is only rated "M". I guess, as in real life, having a bad boy image such as GTA, makes people keep a closer eye on you.

[TheCope]

Video game graphics ain't ever gonna replace a real porn star. Man, it makes me want to unplug sometimes. Kids jerkin' off to anime and video games. Get out of here or at least live in reality for a few minutes.

That ain't porn.

[Pun]

This is ridiculous. I've seen this "mini game". It's called hot coffee. The guy is fully clothed, the chick is naked, but they dont show anything other than the guy making some cumbersome pumping motions on a cartooney chick. How is this any more harmful to a kid than the rest of the game? I mean, come on. The game is all about jacking cars, pimping, gang activity, drive-by shootings, burglary, murder, and other similar activities. The fu**ing game is called Grand Theft Auto. That should give parents a fu**ing clue, eh? I think the so called "pornographic" content is perfectly appropriate in the context of the game.

[Nightmare USA]

The game has never been allowed in my house because as a parent I made that decision. If they want to make a game like that then so be it. I do think that all content needs to be available for who ever is deciding what rating a game is going to carry.

[MD-2389]

This is ridiculous. I've seen this "mini game". It's called hot coffee. The guy is fully clothed, the chick is naked, but they dont show anything other than the guy making some cumbersome pumping motions on a cartooney chick. How is this any more harmful to a kid than the rest of the game? I mean, come on. The game is all about jacking cars, pimping, gang activity, drive-by shootings, burglary, murder, and other similar activities. The fu**ing game is called Grand Theft Auto. That should give parents a fu**ing clue, eh? I think the so called "pornographic" content is perfectly appropriate in the context of the game.

x2

Though I guess the parents that will just glance at what little johnny or susie picked up, and throw it into the cart don't really care what their kids do anyways...and those are the ones that cry the most when they finally find out what their kid is playing.

[Grendel]

No such thing as bad press. They have become the video game "bad boys," if such a thing is possible. No matter what their next game is, it will sell as well as GTA:SA.

W/ the re-rating to AO they are up creek right now tho. GTA got pulled almost instantainousely everywhere in the US.

[Top Wop]

Heh, now those who whine will have another battle to fight, now that SA is pulled from the shelves you are going to see the game get warzed alot more than usual.

I'm not sorry for Rockstar at all, they knew what they were getting into, and it was very lame that they tried to cover it up. They know damn well the mod community would unlock this. Now thanks to Rockstar games are getting a negative view by the general public. Now we have to worry about whiny hypocritical senators who go after softcore porn in games and never fail to realize that nearly every other week there is a sexually explicit movie released by Hollywood. And this is not the first time a game with sex has been released.

Parents are stupid and so are the people going after the wrong thing. But at the same time Rockstar had it coming. As if they need even more controversy.

So thank you Rockstar for fsking everything up.

Edit: theregister.co.uk said it best:

Well, here's a suggestion for the Democrats as to how they can help defend family values: don't accept oral sexual favours from White House interns while you're supposed to be running the country - and keep your cigars firmly to yourself.

[DCrazy]

Like I said, the problem isn't in the content that they created, it's that they implied that the content wasn't theirs. They created the content and acknowledged the potential problem before the game hit the shelf. Rather than saying "we removed the ability to access the content because of its graphic nature" they tried to pass the buck. It flew back in their face, and now they're screwed on multiple levels. And in the process they've brought the videogame market one set closer to legislative oversight. gg rockstar

[Ferno]

bleh. a game that's rated M is like a movie that's rated R. Now with the AO rating on it, it'll be like Sin City with an X rating.

bet all the politikians are sleeping better now that they've wiped out the scourge that is a pair of breasts from games!

this sucks.

[Beowulf]

Who f'ing cares? People are hypocrites and irresponsible idiots. Don't play it if it bothers you. It's not like you don't know what you're getting into when you buy a game called GRAND THEFT AUTO. It's not that big a deal.

Ever played Leisure Suit Larry for Xbox? I rented it the other day - the entire premise of the game is to get drunk and play minigames to get the main character laid. There are completely naked characters in the game and nobody mentions it. And honestly, I can't understand how Americans will accept horrifying acts of violence but when any sort of sexual or even revealing content is present in games, TV, movies - they go nuts. Look, nobody is forcing you to play these games, nobody is forcing you to buy them for your kids. I'm so sick and tired of BS irresponsible whiny America.

[roid]

edit:
mobmess just reposted it below

[[]V[]essenjah]

I posted this in the Cafe, which was closed. I didn't know there was a nother post on this subject.


http://www.gta-sanandreas.com/

Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Announces Conclusion of ESRB Investigation

ESRB assigns "Adults Only 18+" (AO) rating for current version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas due to unauthorized third party "Hot Coffee" modification

Rockstar Games to cease manufacture of current version of title and offer a downloadable patch to prevent modification of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for PC

Company lowers third quarter and fiscal year guidance to reflect the expected negative impact on the title's retail performance

Ugh, I agree on the fact that, the content shouldn't have been placed on the game. However, someone probably would have implemented anyway but with a little more work involved. But you should also consider the fact that it is a game where the F word is mainstream and used, nearly every other word and you can randomly beat cops and old ladies to death with a baseball bat or with your bare hands. Apparently they only got away with this lawsuite because the content was inside the game. However, it was DISABLED and could only be re-enabled by a mod!! Rockstar should have known that this game was allready a major controversy and they shouldn't have attempted to push it this far over the edge.


What really makes me nervous though, is if the ESRB will start forcing other game companies to prevent modding of their games. Imagine what kind of effect this would have on the Elder Scrolls series, UT, Doom, Quake, Half Life and nearly every other franchise that is so dependent on such functionality.


For many, mods play a major roll in why a consumer buys a game. They better not do this to Oblivion.




To add to this, after I've read through the article you posted, it sounds like Rockstar also made the stupid mistake of trying to cover it up, which in turn, makes things much worse.

[roid]

i gotta say, that's pretty funny releasing a patch for it.

you install a patch, which stops you installing a mod.

uh yeah, i guess the patch disables the content hey... oh wait, THE CONTENT IS ALREADY DISABLED OUTOF THE BOX GENIUSES!!

what the hell does the patch do. remove the offending code entirely? all the mod has to do then is simply reinsert the code back in , like a traditional mod, and we're back to where we started. it seems all the morons are comming outof the closet at once on this one eh.

perhaps all they need do is put a sticker on the box saying:
"Rated as is. Any modification to this product is at own risk."

peh. as if everyone doesn't already know that. *sigh* whenever this kindof ★■◆● comes up it feels like we are dealing with a species of infants, know the feeling?

[[]V[]essenjah]

Agreed Roidy. It looks like Rockstar is going to take action against mod developers. Mostly likely, the primary target will be the developers of Hot Coffee.

Take Two â?? and Rockstar Studios, which developed the game, said they feel they have been unfairly targeted by anti-video game activists and may explore legal action against those who have profited from creating or distributing tools to alter the game. This would likely include the "Hot Coffee" modification.

Taken from: http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/20/technol ... ltech/gta/


What I don't get, is how can they take action against them if they don't make any money off from it? I'm sure the mod designers who made that mod, didn't make any money off from it. From what I can tell, they didn't attempt to sell the mod, nor the tools to accomplish it. Most tools are distributed for free over the net along with the mods themselves.


Unless they took a phat bribe from ESRB, which I seriously doubt they did.

[Jesus Freak]

heh I just downloaded GTA SA a couple weeks ago. Maybe this gives me a reason to actually play it, no? Except I'm too lazy to figure out to unlock this mod or whatever it is. *yawn*

[Top Wop]

Good Post:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... et_to_hell

[MD-2389]

Ever played Leisure Suit Larry for Xbox? I rented it the other day - the entire premise of the game is to get drunk and play minigames to get the main character laid. There are completely naked characters in the game and nobody mentions it. And honestly, I can't understand how Americans will accept horrifying acts of violence but when any sort of sexual or even revealing content is present in games, TV, movies - they go nuts. Look, nobody is forcing you to play these games, nobody is forcing you to buy them for your kids. I'm so sick and tired of BS irresponsible whiny America.

I actually know one of the developers for Leisure Suit Larry, and they actually uninhibited it quite a bit for the european version. They had to cut it down quite a bit for the US version, just to keep the crybabie fundie parents off their backs.

[Top Gun]

Good Post:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... et_to_hell

Maddox is the absolute man

[Tetrad]

Here's an excellent example of how out of touch some of the people spearheading this "zomg games are porn" business:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22 ... 29609.html

In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."

The Sims 2 is a "life simulator." In the game, players steer their digital beings around their cyberlives. Actions include everything from the spectacular (getting married, having children, receiving promotions at work) to the mundane (cooking microwaved meals, going to the bathroom, mopping the floor). Such activities, as in real life, sometimes require nudity. EA circumvents inappropriateness by "blurring" out the nether regions, almost to a comical sense.

...

Thompson doesn't seem to care. He cites a cheat code that can remove the blur that covers the nether regions. "The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called 'the blur' which obscures the genital areas. In other words, the game was released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full frontal nudity was resident on the game and would be accessed by use of a simple code widely provided on the Internet."

It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobes. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."

...

Jeff Brown, vice president of corporate communications at EA, in response to the accusations, told GameSpot, "This is nonsense. We've reviewed 100 percent of the content. There is no content inappropriate for a teen audience. Players never see a nude sim. If someone with an extreme amount of expertise and time were to remove the pixels, they would see that the sims have no genitals. They appear like Ken and Barbie."

Thompson doesn't buy it. "The sex and the nudity are in the game. That's the point. The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed. The blur can be disarmed. This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."

Gotta love this guy's logic. No, seriously, think about what he's saying about the blurring.

...and if I could simulate my harem of anatomically correct nude 12 year old girls with the Sims I would've done so a long time ago. As I haven't, this is proof that it doesn't exist. And I think my logic is more sound than his.

[fliptw]

Update from Jack "FEAR MONGER" Thompson, same link as tet's:

[UPDATE] Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering.

Im waiting for the MP/RIAAs to use this as a wedge point for more restrictive copyright laws.

If he's smart(the above suggests otherwise), he'd back off of EA, and go get more tighter controls on mods for games from congress.

[roid]

ugh, why do they give these idiots like Jack 'i is a lawyer' Thomson a voice.

the only reason to give these idiots a voice is to hear them scream as you cut them to ribbons, the article should have. examples need to be made of these ppl.

[[]V[]essenjah]

Another interesting point, is on the forums, someone mentioned an interesting question.


Their disabling the content that caused the AO rating, so why are they still rating it AO??!!


The only way I can see that happening is if they still allow the AO version to be moddable.


Also, why don't they simply sell two versions? Pull the current M rated games off the shelf, replace them with clean versions that maybe tone down a few of the other areas of the game. (don't worry about the damn patch), and make an AO version with the deleted content included to be sold in the stores that carry AO games? Sell it as a directors cut so to speak. Sort of like there are rated and unrated versions of films. The unrated version, the developers of the game can provide anything they want for and the rated has to be toned down. I mean, they even do it with music, where you have the explicite and non-explicite versions. The explicite will usually have a lable and a parental advisory lable included. Especially since games, are such a similar media. Why wipe out modding over something that was primarily the fault of a game company?

[fliptw]

All copies of the game sold since its release last year can have the hot coffee mod unlocked.

If you have a PS2 and a game genie clone(pro action replay I think) can you get access to this.

they did a really dumb job of hiding it - they hid it rather than removing it, and enabling it was simply a matter of toggling one flag - hence how you can access it on the ps2 version.

it'll keep the AO rating until Rockstar can prove it doens't remain on the disc.

They won't sell two versions due to the cost involved - the AO rated version will only be sold in select stores, and not in walmart. Walmart having it on their shevles was the reason they tried to disable it.

Can you even get GTA:SA in walmart now?

[Ferno]

ugh, why do they give these idiots like Jack 'i is a lawyer' Thomson a voice.

the only reason to give these idiots a voice is to hear them scream as you cut them to ribbons, the article should have. examples need to be made of these ppl.

then write a letter to him. take the initiative instead of sitting there and calling foul.

[Tetrad]

then write a letter to him. take the initiative instead of sitting there and calling foul.

Don't think that'll do much good http://keepyourkillingclean.blogspot.co ... e-bag.html

[fliptw]

Lawyers aren't required to see both sides of a issue, unless it keeps them out of trouble with the ABA.

So, if you want to correct him on a issue, use the words "avoidance of possible perjury charges" as the subject of your letter.

And make sure you don't perjury you doing that tho.

[Ferno]

Funny thing is, he fails to realize that the game industry rakes in more money than the movie industry.

[fliptw]

Funny thing is, he fails to realize that the game industry rakes in more money than the movie industry.

Yes, he fails to realize the potential for out-of-court settlements.

[roid]

ugh, why do they give these idiots like Jack 'i is a lawyer' Thomson a voice.

the only reason to give these idiots a voice is to hear them scream as you cut them to ribbons, the article should have. examples need to be made of these ppl.

then write a letter to him. take the initiative instead of sitting there and calling foul.

heh, i just wanna yell atm. maybe later.

Also, why don't they simply sell two versions?

hmm, spose they could do the "special american cut-back version" (while releasing the proper version to the rest of the world) technique. it's well used.

actually.. i have this vague memory of one of the earlier slew of these 3D GTA games being modified for release in NewZealand, or maybe it was here in Aust. either way ppl who wanted the proper version simply imported it.

[Grendel]

Also, why don't they simply sell two versions?

hmm, spose they could do the "special american cut-back version" (while releasing the proper version to the rest of the world) technique. it's well used.

Funny -- normally it's the other way round. US version has all the gore, europe (or german) version comes w/o blood..

[roid]

weird.
europe gets the nudity, usa gets the blood eh.

[Ferno]

Yes, he fails to realize the potential for out-of-court settlements.

dude.. wtf