Man who knew?

[Couver_]

This is scary first I have heard of it


First IM going to tell you a little about me and my family. My name is Jeff. I am a Police Officer for a city which is known nationwide for its crime rate. We have a lot of gangs and drugs. At one point we were # 2 in the nation in homicides per capita. I also have a police K-9 named Thor. He was certified in drugs and general duty. He retired at 3 years old because he was shot in the line of duty. He lives with us now and I still train with him because he likes it. I always liked the fact that there was no way to bring drugs into my house. Thor wouldn't allow it. He would tell on you. The reason I say this is so you understand that I know about drugs. I have taught in schools about drugs. My wife asks all our kids at least once a week if they used any drugs. Makes them promise they wont.

I like building computers occasionally and started building a new one in February 2005. I also was working on some of my older computers. They were full of dust so on one of my trips to the computer store I bought a 3 pack of DUST OFF. Dust Off is a can of compressed air to blow dust off a computer. A few weeks later when I went to use them they were all used. I talked to my kids and my 2 sons both said they had used them on their computer and messing around with them. I yelled at them for wasting the 10 dollars I paid for them. On February 28 I went back to the computer store. They didn't have the 3 pack which I had bought on sale so I bought a single jumbo can of Dust Off. I went home and set it down beside my computer.

On March 1st I left for work at 10 PM. At 11 PM my wife went down and kissed Kyle goodnight. At 530 am the next morning Kathy went downstairs to wake Kyle up for school, before she left for work. He was sitting up in bed with his legs crossed and his head leaning over. She called to him a few times to get up. He didn't move. He would sometimes tease her like this and pretend he fell back asleep. He was never easy to get up. She went in and shook his arm. He fell over. He was pale white and had the straw from the Dust Off can coming out of his mouth. He had the new can of Dust Off in his hands. Kyle was dead.

I am a police officer and I had never heard of this. My wife is a nurse and she had never heard of this. We later found out from the coroner, after the autopsy, that only the propellant from the can of Dust off was in his system. No other drugs. Kyle had died between midnight and 1 Am.

I found out that using Dust Off is being done mostly by kids ages 9 through 15. They even have a name for it. It's called dusting. A take off from the Dust Off name. It gives them a slight high for about 10 seconds. It makes them dizzy. A boy who lives down the street from us showed Kyle how to do this about a month before. Kyle showed his best friend. Told him it was cool and it couldn't hurt you. Its just compressed air. It cant hurt you. His best friend said no.

Kyle's death

Kyle was wrong. It's not just compressed air. It also contains a propellant. I think its R2. Its a refrigerant like what is used in your refrigerator. It is a heavy gas. Heavier than air. When you inhale it, it fills your lungs and keeps the good air, with oxygen, out. That's why you feel dizzy, buzzed. It decreases the oxygen to your brain, to your heart. Kyle was right. It cant hurt you. IT KILLS YOU. The horrible part about this is there is no warning. There is no level that kills you. It's not cumulative or an overdose; it can just go randomly, terribly wrong. Roll the dice and if your number comes up you die. ITS NOT AN OVERDOSE. Its Russian roulette. You don't die later. Or not feel good and say I've had too much. You usually die as your breathing it in. If not you die within 2 seconds of finishing "the hit." That's why the straw was still in Kyle's mouth when he died. Why his eye's were still open.

The experts want to call this huffing. The kids don't believe its huffing. As adults we tend to lump many things together. But it doesn't fit here. And that's why its more accepted. There is no chemical reaction. no strong odor. It doesn't follow the huffing signals. Kyle complained a few days before he died of his tongue hurting. It probably did. The propellant causes frostbite. If I had only known.

Its easy to say hay, its my life and I'll do what I want. But it isn't. Others are always effected. This has forever changed our family's life. I have a hole in my heart and soul that can never be fixed. The pain is so immense I cant describe it. There's nowhere to run from it. I cry all the time and I don't ever cry. I do what I'm supposed to do but I don't really care. My kids are messed up. One wont talk about it. The other will only sleep in our room at night. And my wife, I cant even describe how bad she is taking this. I thought we were safe because of Thor. I thought we were safe because we knew about drugs and talked to our kids about them.

After Kyle died another story came out. A Probation Officer went to the school system next to ours to speak with a student. While there he found a student using Dust Off in the bathroom. This student told him about another student who also had some in his locker. This is a rather affluent school system. They will tell you they don't have a drug problem there. They don't even have a dare or plus program there. So rather than tell everyone about this "new" way of getting high they found, they hid it. The probation officer told the media after Kyle's death and they, the school, then admitted to it. I know that if they would have told the media and I had heard, it wouldn't have been in my house.

We need to get this out of our homes and school computer labs.

Using Dust Off isn't new and some "professionals" do know about. It just isn't talked about much, except by the kids. They know about it.

April 2nd was 1 month since Kyle died. April 5th would have been his 15th birthday. And every weekday I catch myself sitting on the living room couch at 2:30 in the afternoon and waiting to see him get off the bus. I know Kyle is in heaven but I cant help but wonder If I died and went to Hell.

Jeff

Snopes

[Pun]

I read about this a while back. crazy.

[JMEaT]

Sad.

[MD-2389]

Damn, that is sad.

[DCrazy]

That's why we ID when we sell the stuff. (Dust-Off even changed the warning labels to read "Keep away from adults and teens.") Kids get a high off the high concentration of oxygen and propellant in the can, but don't realize that the propellant is extremely deadly. The air inside isn't toxic like paint fumes (which is why "huffing" isn't an entirely accurate term), but the propellant is similar to that used in spraypaint cans. In addition, the stuff can be very dangerous when shot at people. Ever turn a can of Dust-Off upside-down and shoot it? You're shooting solid propellant. Escaping from the high-pressure environment inside the can into the atmosphere causes the temperature to drop drastically (remember that pressure and temperature are directly proportional). When I worked at a software company, I used to use the Dust-Off to kill insects: turn the can upside down and shoot it at the bug, and it literally freezes to death in mid-air and crashes to the ground. The propellant can cause localized frostbite if applied directly to the skin for a significant period of time.

In other words, if you have teenage kids, be VERY careful of where you keep the stuff. And if you work in a store that sells it, like I do, always ALWAYS ask for ID before selling it. Failure to do so is a crime.

[DarkShadow]

I did really think about why but I always keep it out of reach of my kids. I just borrowed one from a friend and it "Contains Bittergent Technology to Deter Misuse by Intentionally Inhaling Concentrated Vapors".

http://www.iqproducts.com/new/cleansafe ... nscent.htm

[HaAGen DaZS]

Right let me say a few things:

kids will 99% of the time try out something, at
least once, that they arent supposed to.

if something is a can its more than likely to have something in it that can kill you. to me this was always common sense, and ive fucked around with compressed ★■◆● since i was 9.

so what if your dog is trained to sniff out drugs - there is nothing to say your kid hasn't already popped a pill before s/he comes home - or done something while sleeping over at a mates house. sorry.

all schools lie about drug problems.

theres more that could be found within the above posts. i feel for anyone who has a kid - as a "horror" kid myself, i feel bad for the paranoia i myself have set within my parents.. but at the same time it kinda does the whole darwin thing no matter what.

like i said, when i was ★■◆●ing with propellants at 9 yrs old i knew i could die from it...

----
condelences to the writer - too bad his kid commited SUICIDE.

[snoopy]

Nice find DS... that's a good idea- add something that makes the air taste bitter- thus making it not worth the mini-high it provides.

[Mobius]

Or they could put some regurgitant in it so it made you vomit immediately. Like they do with Meths.

[Darkside Heartless]

Wouldn't work, you don't puke through your lungs.

You fail biology or something?

[[]V[]essenjah]

Scary stuff.


Darkside is right, they said it would kill you within 10 seconds and it effects the lungs as apposed to the digestive system.

My Dad stated that you could probably survive if you turned yourself upside down. I wouldn't try it though. He used to work in refridgeration and said that, that chemical, since it is heavier than air will fall out if you are upside down. I wouldn't go trying it though.

[Couver_]

Right let me say a few things:

kids will 99% of the time try out something, at
least once, that they arent supposed to.

if something is a can its more than likely to have something in it that can kill you. to me this was always common sense, and ive ****ed around with compressed **** since i was 9.

so what if your dog is trained to sniff out drugs - there is nothing to say your kid hasn't already popped a pill before s/he comes home - or done something while sleeping over at a mates house. sorry.

all schools lie about drug problems.

theres more that could be found within the above posts. i feel for anyone who has a kid - as a "horror" kid myself, i feel bad for the paranoia i myself have set within my parents.. but at the same time it kinda does the whole darwin thing no matter what.

like i said, when i was ****ing with propellants at 9 yrs old i knew i could die from it...

----
condelences to the writer - too bad his kid commited SUICIDE.

Kids are dumb yes. Hence the reason I posted this to make people aware and more importent parents. If someone on this board who in older reads that and says to themselves "Man I gotta try that" then yes the darwin factor comes into play....

It's one of those things. Who woulda thunk canned air could kill? Yes propelents chems etc etc are bad.. Just wanted a few more people to view this so maybe someone in a position like DCrazy or a parent might think about it.


Chances this will help someone on this board. Very Small


If it does and in someway helps keep someone or someones kid safe... Worth Posting...

[roid]

hopefully this Officer Jeff will think twice from now on about having such a hard line on drugs that his kids don't even feel safe talking to him about it - and feel they have to hide it from him.

talked to our kids about them.

that's teh problem. talk WITH your kids about drugs, not AT them.
Officer Jeff, your kids couldn't stand the thought of disappointing you, so to be normal kids they had to live a 2nd life without you in it.
if you smother your kids, teach them that pleasing you (by obeying your every word without question) is the most important thing, then all you are doing is alienating your kids. they won't feel like talking to you about drugs, since you are an unreasonable idiot.

Jeff has no-one to blame but his own draconian family laws (no drugs in my house, no sir!) for his kids' lack of honesty, and it cost him his kid's life.
i doubt he learnt though.

My wife asks all our kids at least once a week if they used any drugs. Makes them promise they wont.

yeah, works great doesn't it Jeff.

the most effective way of keeping your kids safe from the dangers of drugs is to keep discussion absolutely open with them. give education about the realistic effects and realistic relative dangers of various drugs compared to one another. and even if needs be, offer to be present when your child tries drugs. you know... training wheels.
we do the same with alcohol. as a kid i always only ever drunk alcohol in my parents' presense. i didn't need to hide it. as a result i was kept familure with the effects of alcohol, never risked poisoning, and my parents would probabaly keep an eye on me to make sure i didn't hurt myself.

if discussion of drugs in that family was more open, Kyle probabaly wouldn't have even bothered with inhalents. he'd try some E, smoke some pot, drink some alcohol. inhalants suck compared to better drugs.

the most important thing is trust, and by extension communication.


------------------------

if all this stuff does is displace oxygen from the lungs, then you can't die in 10seconds.
you can go UNCONSCIOUS in 10 seconds, but as the minutes tick by without you breathing (and obviously too unconscious to fix it) your brain starts to necrify. my rule of thumb is if your brain doesn't have any incomming oxygen (ie: if your heart suddenly just stops pumping your blood around), then you start to get brain damage after about 2minutes. it doesn't take very long till your brain is almost entirely dead - iirc about 15mins (but i'd have to check that).
i've never heard of the DUSTOFF inhalent, but from how Jeff's message is describing it it seems to simply have the same dangers as any other gas that displaces oxygen from the lungs, including Helium or Nitrous-oxide. the thing is, asphixiation does NOT kill instantly.

you get problems because what actually keeps you breathing is the carbon dioxide you breath out, it's a poison and your lungs want it out so you breath out - THIS IS THE MECHANISM BEHIND BREATHING, the reaction your lungs have to it's own expelled carbondioxide. it's not caused by a lack of oxygen. all a lack of oxygen causes is you to BLACK OUT (brain needs it in constant supply from the blood or you black out, simple).

so there is a way to bypass this urge to breath by not breathing oxygen. since oxygen is converted by the body into carbondioxide and released again - if you don't breath in oxygen then your body has nothing to convert to carbon dioxide and you will therefore breath out less carbon dioxide as your body gradually runs outof it's blood-born stores of oxygen.

this would be the most common serious problem caused by inhalents - asphixiation. asphixiation is probabaly not the biggest killer though because it's easy to recover from if you have someone watching you.

Kyle was wrong. It's not just compressed air. It also contains a propellant. I think its R2. Its a refrigerant like what is used in your refrigerator. It is a heavy gas. Heavier than air. When you inhale it, it fills your lungs and keeps the good air, with oxygen, out. That's why you feel dizzy, buzzed. It decreases the oxygen to your brain, to your heart. Kyle was right. It cant hurt you. IT KILLS YOU. The horrible part about this is there is no warning. There is no level that kills you. It's not cumulative or an overdose; it can just go randomly, terribly wrong. Roll the dice and if your number comes up you die. ITS NOT AN OVERDOSE. Its Russian roulette. You don't die later. Or not feel good and say I've had too much. You usually die as your breathing it in. If not you die within 2 seconds of finishing "the hit." That's why the straw was still in Kyle's mouth when he died. Why his eye's were still open.

wrong. Jeff here is suggesting that asphixiation killed his son instantly, which is impossible - even if you literally scooped the brain outof the skull and sat on the desk it would probabaly take a fair few seconds to DIE of lack of oxygen.
The snopes article does talk about how you can have a heart attack from inhalents. but even this is not an instant death. it will kill you faster than stopping breathing, but it's not instant death.

if Kyle simply stopped breathing, it would have taken a little while before his heart stopped also (3-15mins perhaps), and then it would have taken another minute (probabaly less) or so for his brain to start to get damage. while his heart is still pumping - in that first 5minutes or so of unconsciousness someone could have simply given little Kyle mouth to mouth, and he would have started breathing again.
If it was left too long and his heart also stopped, then full CPR could be given, and this too could have saved his life (abiet with greater risk of brain damage).

if Kyle inhaled the substance and had an instant heart attack, then THIS is serious. but he could perhaps still be revived (or at least keep his body and brain supplied with oxygen so he doesn't get brain damage and die) with use of CPR.

the snopes article doesn't mention stroke. i think you can have a stroke from inhalents. this can be quite close to the SUDDEN DEATH thing that Officer Jeff is talking about, but for some reason the snopes article doesn't mention it, and Jeff sure doesn't.


probabaly all you'll ever need to know (including a section of DUST-OFF inhaling experiences):
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/inhalants/

[DCrazy]

Wouldn't work, you don't puke through your lungs.

You fail biology or something?

What are you talking about? He's simply suggesting that they add a chemical that makes you vomit instantly, thus deterring you from using it for more than a mere fraction of a second. You ever hear of nerve gas? Same concept, but less lethal.

Man, get this on camera, it's the one time I'm gonna side with Mobi.

[Top Gun]

the most effective way of keeping your kids safe from the dangers of drugs is to keep discussion absolutely open with them. give education about the realistic effects and realistic relative dangers of various drugs compared to one another. and even if needs be, offer to be present when your child tries drugs. you know... training wheels.
we do the same with alcohol. as a kid i always only ever drunk alcohol in my parents' presense. i didn't need to hide it. as a result i was kept familure with the effects of alcohol, never risked poisoning, and my parents would probabaly keep an eye on me to make sure i didn't hurt myself.

Roid, I disagree with just about your entire post, but this section above all jumps off the screen at me as being completely idiotic, immature, and downright dangerous. You're saying that you'd literally sit next to your kids while they snorted crack or shot heroin? I hope to God you're not implying this. If you are, you have absolutely no right to be a parent whatsoever. At least in this country, if any parent pulls a stunt like that, they're winding up behind bars, and good riddance. If you're actually condoning the use of drugs, so long as it's in a "safe" environment, do you know what message you're sending? You're saying that there aren't any consequences to your kids' actions. You're literally saying that it's perfectly fine for your kids to go out and engage in activities that could kill them. That's just sick.

You know why I've never had so much as a beer or a cigarette? It's not only because I know that drugs completely **** up one's body, mind, and personality. It's not only because I'm smart enough to realize that I don't need to ingest/inhale/inject manufactured, and downright deadly, chemicals to get some artificially produced, temporary sensation of well-being. It's also because I've realized that my parents are proud of what I've accomplished. I know for a fact that my parents are damn proud that I'm not another one of these boozing wastes of oxygen that are so prevalent on my college campus. I plan to make something out of myself, and it doesn't involve alcohol, nicotine, cocaine, heroin, marijuana, or inhalants. My parents have always ingrained into myself and my brothers the fact that drugs are an utter waste of one's potential, and it's as much for my love and respect of them than it is due to my own intelligence that I've never touched any of them. I know I'm better off for it, and if I ever become a parent myself, that's the same approach I'm taking. I want my kids to be intelligent and to make the right choices, not to be some ****-faced party rats who are completely wasting their God-given gifts of life and talents.

[MD-2389]

Way to fly off the handle Top Gun. Having a controlled environment if you have a kid that wants to "experiment" is actually a good idea. That way they can step in before the kid goes too far. What, your parents never gave you a sip of booze when you were a kid? Mine did, and I refused to touch the stuff ever again until last year.

[roid]

of course you disagree with me about my entire post Top Gun, i expect as much.

do you know what message you're sending? You're saying that there aren't any consequences to your kids' actions.

haha, nice traditional use of the good old "what about the message it sends!" line .
the message i'm sending Top Gun is that the safety of my children is more important than their obedience to my parental expectations.

no consequences?
i'm showing them the real consequences. you smoke a joint - you feel good. smoke way too much - you may goto sleep.
i will educate them on the TRUE relative dangers of drugs. not some 100 year old politically motivated scare campaign.

what will your message be? you don't know ★■◆● about drugs, so i guess your kids will have to learn about drugs from their friends.

You're literally saying that it's perfectly fine for your kids to go out and engage in activities that could kill them.

no i'm educating them on what is and isn't dangerous, i'm telling them that if they are curious about something dangerous, they should feel safe comming and asking me about it.
They WON'T be so scared of offending my expectations of them that they will exclude me from their lives and decisions. Therefore they will continue to benefit from my experience, instead of feeling increasingly seperated from me as they grow into teenagers and adults ( - as is the cause of so much youth suicide these days).

It's not only because I know that drugs completely **** up one's body, mind, and personality.

no.
you know nothing but what you have been told.
& you have been told lies.

you will have to step outside of your parents' minds eventually. and when you do you will be illprepared for anything other than a forever sheltered life of external judgements and predudice. if you think one beer will at all ★■◆● up your body, mind and/or personality. you are yelling it in the face of all scientific evidence and cultural knowledge that says otherwise. just come out and say it - you are superstitious.

[Tricord]

the most effective way of keeping your kids safe from the dangers of drugs is to keep discussion absolutely open with them. give education about the realistic effects and realistic relative dangers of various drugs compared to one another. and even if needs be, offer to be present when your child tries drugs. you know... training wheels.
we do the same with alcohol. as a kid i always only ever drunk alcohol in my parents' presense. i didn't need to hide it. as a result i was kept familure with the effects of alcohol, never risked poisoning, and my parents would probabaly keep an eye on me to make sure i didn't hurt myself.

Roid, I disagree with just about your entire post, but this section above all jumps off the screen at me as being completely idiotic, immature, and downright dangerous. You're saying that you'd literally sit next to your kids while they snorted crack or shot heroin? I hope to God you're not implying this. If you are, you have absolutely no right to be a parent whatsoever. At least in this country, if any parent pulls a stunt like that, they're winding up behind bars, and good riddance. If you're actually condoning the use of drugs, so long as it's in a "safe" environment, do you know what message you're sending? You're saying that there aren't any consequences to your kids' actions. You're literally saying that it's perfectly fine for your kids to go out and engage in activities that could kill them. That's just sick.

TG, you're wrong. My dad said to me that if I wanted to smoke before I turned 18, I had to smoke with him at home, not with friends. I never picked it up.

I believe that experimenting in presence of your parents or at least with their consent, does teach you there are consequences to your actions. You are given a choice by your parents, which means that the descision as well as the consequences is 100% yours to take. If as a kid you hide it from them, there are no consequences because there is no supervision, and when/if the habit kicks in it's too late. If a kid develops a habit for tobacco, alcohol or pot without the parents knowing about it, there's evidence for a fucked-up parent-kid relation rather than just a fucked-up kid.

[CORD]

Are all of you who think that using drugs is ok parents of kids who might be tempted to try drugs? Any parent who would allow drugs to be used in their home by their kids is not doing their kids any favors or teaching them anything AT ALL. First of all, drugs like pot and coke or any other recreational drug, are all ILLEGAL. Any intelligent parent would not allow them in their house just on that fact alone. It's not worth it to risk losing everything because you wanted to "be there" when your kids took that first toke or snort. What do you think the results would be if your kid became ill from the drugs and had to get medical attention? " Gee doc, I can't understand why he OD'd, he was home with me watching TV when he snorted that stuff." Do you think the police would have any sympathy for the parent? Yeah, they'd say: "sorry your son got sick from the illegal drugs, now let me read you your rights on the ride down to the stationhouse." Those of you who would be a parent that allowed that kind of activity to go on in their home need to remove the blinders and see drugs for what they are. ILLEGAL, with dire consequences.

[Tricord]

We're talking about socially accepted drugs here, such as tobacco, pot and alcohol. Of course harddrugs or hallucinogens should never be used, even with the parents. But by letting your kids experiment with things like pot and alcohol, you make a stronger point when you deny them the use of anything harder. It's all psychology. If you try to force things you're only creating more distance between you and your kid and he'll try on his own.

Sometimes the best way to prevent someone from doing something is not forbidding it.

[Testiculese]

That worked for me. I've never done coke, meth, pills, or whatever else is out there. My dad let me get drunk and stupid in the basement playing pool, and I learned my limits and such with no problems. (I called him out, is what started it; "I can drink more than you, Dad!" haha) He told me about pot and the need for moderation in it's use, and told me the bad things about the other stuff. I took that advice with me when I went out partying and..surprise..I was one of few kids to never get busted with beer or pot under 21, one of the few who laughed off coke and dust (I don't know how my area got into a dust craze. Fourtunately, that passed).
My dad made sensible rules that I was able to follow without activating the 'teen rebellion mode'. He knew what kids will do regardless of what parents say, and didn't try to ramrod any propaganda down my throat. I watched friends from well-to-do families, and not so well-to-do, who's parents were narrow, close-minded tyrants, and those were the kids who didn't respect their parents, and went overboard with everything.

[CORD]

I guess I didn't say excalty what I meant to. The point is, that underaged drinking and pot, socially acceptable or not, is still ILLEGAL, and can have dire consequences wether or not your parent condones the use in their house. They take a risk of being arrested for having pot in their house. And as far as underage drinking, that's still illegal in most states too. It dosen't justify the "I'm a better person for it" explanation. Look, I'm not one to talk about underage drinking and smoking pot, as I did it in my highscool years too. My parent knew I did it too. Still doesn't make it "OK". She always said I'd get in trouble because of it too, but I never did either. Still doesn't make it "OK". I was just lucky. Why is it all of you are avoiding the legal issues surrounding posessing and smoking pot and poseesing and using alcohol while being underage? Are you impervious to the laws of your state? Are your parents as well? Maybe someone will read this and alert the local constabulary as to your ilicit and illegal activities.

PS, Don't take offense to my rantings, as I'm just playing devil's advocate.

[SilverFJ]

Drugs are one of the most fantastic things in the world if you are resonsible with them. Little Kyle wasn't very responsible and now he's toast. Starter fluid or gas or ether or whatever is all stupid ★■◆● anyway. Getting high off a $10 can is a good 3 or 4 joints the kid could've smoked, eaten healthy and gone to bed with no trouble, woke up with no ill effects (other than a little cough maybe, but whats that compared to gas ether or starter fluid tearing up your ★■◆●) and continued through his day.

[NWRhino]

Dumb effing kid. I knew at 6 yrs old that compressed air could cause embolisms (a much more likely cause of death than O2 displacement).

"Why his eye's were still open"

Anyone who's dead will have their eyes open.

Retarded story about a retarded kid.

[Duper]

.....

I can't beleive what I'm reading. ...but I'm not totally surprised either.

[roid]

Cord i'd like to think my kids will have a good understanding of "the man" by the time they leave my nest. They'll understand right and wrong more than the law could ever teach them.
i myself was given a perhaps odd upbringing in relation to when and when not to obey the laws of the land. it goes without saying that my childrens' wellbeing is more important that obeying laws. Kyle's dad obeyed the law.

underage drinking is legal here in your own home.


"hehe, where's your tinfoil hat dad? oh noes i've got it! aliens are pwning your mind as we speak!! weeee, can't catch me!"

*kids proceeds to run around the house with dad hot on their heels*

[CORD]

Roid, I applaud your efforts to teach them what's what. I was directing my thoughts to some of the people posting here that think that there are no consequences for their actions. "drugs are a beautiful thing" What a statement. Is it an escape mechanism? If so, what are you escaping from?

[WarAdvocat]

Just for the record it's been postulated that Humans have an "intoxication drive" much like our sex drive and other innate motivations.

Thus all the seeking for altered states of consciousness that we do, from religion to meditation to drugs may well be hard-wired, and part of what makes us human.

Note the lack of editorial slant

[roid]

Cord since my interest atm is mainly in shamanistic drugs.
i'm escaping spiritual ignorance.

[SilverFJ]

mark one for roid

[Jeff250]

Shamanistic drugs? What are those? Shroom-like stuff? I'm genuinely curious.

[MD-2389]

Roid, I applaud your efforts to teach them what's what. I was directing my thoughts to some of the people posting here that think that there are no consequences for their actions. "drugs are a beautiful thing" What a statement. Is it an escape mechanism? If so, what are you escaping from?

Thats the thing....nobody is saying that. What some of us are advocating is proper exposure to them, so the kid will know what they're like by being exposed to FACTUAL information instead of government issued propoganda, and what they can do in a safe environment. Yes, if you don't respect the product it can really screw you over. That can be said for just about anything.

[roid]

Shamanistic drugs? What are those? Shroom-like stuff? I'm genuinely curious.

well, shamans in a lot of cultures use drugs to do wild stuff like get in contact with the other worlds & creatures to devine information. i have also heard of the practice of adding one plant of unknown medicinal use to a ayahuasca brew, and then using this brew to devine the possible medicinal use of the unknown plant.

yeah i guess you could refer to any halucinogen or dissociative as a shamanistic drug (incl LSD or shrooms... atm i'm particularly interested in DMT. thx to El-Ka-Bong). i think it's entirely dependant on your perspective.

mark one for roid

hmm?

[kurupt]

letting your kids try drugs is only a good strategy if you know your kids well enough to have a good idea of how they'll handle it. unfortunately most parents dont know jack about their kids these days.

i dont have any children at the experimental age, but i have 2 sisters who are getting close. with one of them, i can see it working. with the other, BAD BAD IDEA. it just depends on the kid.

[SilverFJ]

i was giving you props

lsd, shrooms and DMT (that out of body ★■◆●) really take you to a new level of perception.