New D2 level

A forum just for you old time Descent and Descent2 players.
Post Reply
Grax
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:07 pm

New D2 level

Post by Grax »

I've made a new D2 level. It's my first since I made Wyndham back in 1998 or so. It's called Feces 2 and is optimized for 2-4 players.

http://www.geocities.com/rocken4life/grax/feces2.zip

- Grax
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel »

"feces"? :oops:
User avatar
Sirius
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 5616
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Post by Sirius »

Yeah, couldn't help but chuckle at that one. It used to be 'poop2', but I guess Grax liked this name better.

Either one is just as bad. :lol:

But the level looks pretty good, in general.
NWRhino
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 499
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Houston, TX

Post by NWRhino »

An EXCELLENT level. Great weapon balance, low secondar y count. Has the feel of spaz, just larger. I had a lot of fun playing in it with grax.
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel »

Yet another flat, rectangular D2 level ... sigh.
User avatar
Aus-RED-5
DBB Friend
DBB Friend
Posts: 1604
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:27 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Contact:

Post by Aus-RED-5 »

Diedel wrote:Yet another flat, rectangular D2 level ... sigh.
Poor Diedel.... :P
Grax
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:07 pm

Post by Grax »

I'm able to make more 3D levels (and add pretty textures and make cool designs etc.) but I generally choose not to. I do, however, try to incorporate some interesting designs, but I am and always have been a member of the Spaz school of thought: if a cool design gets in the way of gameplay, then maybe it should be kept in a level that is not intended for good gameplay.

I find that, for tactical gameplay, "Spaz-type" levels, if you want to call em such, are some of the best multiplayer levels ever made (whether or not they were actually made by Spaz).

And anyway, there are plenty of people who make/made good 3D levels, like Kruel (i think was his name), Karash (Mementemori), Sirian, Saline (Zeugma, Beer), and even Spaz when he felt like it (The Manes level 3, the Muses, etc.), among many, many others (Diedel, Sirius, NuKE, Sparhawk...).

It is not sufficient to simply make a level 2D in order for it to provide an interesting tactical game, but the high correlation between a level possessing tactical awesomeness and its being 2D is undeniable. The exceptions that prevent said correlation from being 1:1 are great because they provide 3D elements in a tactical level, but examples of these are rare (I would list 3 Brothers by Sirian as one of these important "3D yet tactical" exceptions).

But anyway... I can understand someone being a lil tired of 2D/rectangular lvls after 10 yrs of Descent. ^_^

- Grax
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel »

Grax,

you are constructing a tight correlation between a level being tactically good and being 2D.

Imo this is not the case. I think the problem is that most Descent players - being so fond of their 6dof-ness - still think 2D and find it difficult to maneuver a true 3D environment. Hence they aren't able to pull off good tactics in such levels.

Btw, I hate Spaz-type levels with a passion. :P
Grax
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:07 pm

Post by Grax »

In my opinion, Spaz is simply the best 1on1 level designer.
User avatar
Kyouryuu
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 5775
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Isla Nublar
Contact:

Post by Kyouryuu »

I don't hate Spaz's maps, so much as I think they are overrated. The biggest problem is that there is very little application of the Y-axis.

In Unreal Tournament, there is a heavy emphasis on Y-axis (technically Z-axis in their terms) in maps. If you look at most of the levels that came with it, and indeed the most popular homebrew maps, you'll see that the designs are very multi-tiered, with many layers of ramps and catwalks. In several ways, despite being a "ground pounder" game, they use the Y-axis a lot more than we do. The players themselves can't "fly," but it's nevertheless the case that threats can come from a broad range of places, not just straight ahead or to the left or right. Elevation is a huge factor and he who holds the higher ground is probably better off than the people on lower decks.

It's odd, then, that we pride ourselves so much on being this 360º 3D game and yet the majority of our popular levels are simple-minded corridor affairs with little dodging space above and below. You might as well be playing Doom. I mean, if you are taking zero advantage of the ability to move up and down in the mines, what's the point?
Edward
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:40 pm

Post by Edward »

I agree even levels in counterstrike can be more 3d than descent.

I have quite a few Ideas but cant implement them due to the fact that I have NO idea on how to use DLE XP and I haven't been able to find a tutorial anywhere.
Grax
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:07 pm

Post by Grax »

Kyouryuu wrote:I don't hate Spaz's maps, so much as I think they are overrated. The biggest problem is that there is very little application of the Y-axis.

In Unreal Tournament, there is a heavy emphasis on Y-axis (technically Z-axis in their terms) in maps. If you look at most of the levels that came with it, and indeed the most popular homebrew maps, you'll see that the designs are very multi-tiered, with many layers of ramps and catwalks. In several ways, despite being a "ground pounder" game, they use the Y-axis a lot more than we do. The players themselves can't "fly," but it's nevertheless the case that threats can come from a broad range of places, not just straight ahead or to the left or right. Elevation is a huge factor and he who holds the higher ground is probably better off than the people on lower decks.

It's odd, then, that we pride ourselves so much on being this 360º 3D game and yet the majority of our popular levels are simple-minded corridor affairs with little dodging space above and below. You might as well be playing Doom. I mean, if you are taking zero advantage of the ability to move up and down in the mines, what's the point?
wrong
Edward
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:40 pm

Post by Edward »

If your trying to make a point just pasting a quote and then saying wrong doesent do anything but make you look like an ass.
User avatar
Sirius
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 5616
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Post by Sirius »

It depends on the level. I've seen some highly 3D levels out there - but no, they don't get played that much.
Edward
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:40 pm

Post by Edward »

I agree. Tho not many.

One thing you should note is that almost every level has a down and an up.
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel »

X: left/right
Y: up/down
Z: front/rear (depth)
Edward wrote:I agree even levels in counterstrike can be more 3d than descent.

I have quite a few Ideas but cant implement them due to the fact that I have NO idea on how to use DLE XP and I haven't been able to find a tutorial anywhere.
Get some basic info here and then read about DLE-XP enhancements here (see the side menu).

Will not save you the effort of actually working into it. You can ask questions in this forum though. :)
spud
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by spud »

This is an old argument. Spaz made a lot of levels. Some boxy and 2D, yet quite suitable for bad network conditions and mind games. Some of his levels have amazing 3D dogfighting areas. I've played Manes, Muses, and Maia recently with mostly broadband peeps, and the 3D dogfights have been intense and amazing.

Feces2 has a number good gameplay features. The energy bays are placed in highly exposed areas, good use of gratings, some weird angles and cuts to demand fancy flying, all in all it's a good level. I also like levels that feature a large well connected 3D area with many different tiers of approach, but this isn't that kind of level.

spud
User avatar
Avder
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4926
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Moorhead, MN

Post by Avder »

I absolutely got sick of spaz's levels. I think I outrgiht refused to play them the last year or so that I played competitive descent.

I always preferred nirvsheep levels.
Edward
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:40 pm

Post by Edward »

Ok I made a level and the diagnostics say there are no problems. I try ti run the level and descent crashes.

Could someone just tell me how to make a working level and go through everything that needs to be done?
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel »

Send me the level to karx11erx at hotmail dot com and I will look why D2(X-W32?) doesn't like it.
Grax
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:07 pm

Post by Grax »

Edward, check the mn2 (or D1 equivalent) file. Make sure it is referring to a filename with the extension included. For D2 you should have "levelname.rl2" referred to in the .mn2 file, rather than just "levelname".
Edward
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:40 pm

Post by Edward »

I have no idea how to do that.
Grax
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:07 pm

Post by Grax »

Look in your D2 Missions directory, open the .mn2 file with notepad
Post Reply