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I should just say this thread is really looking up...u people are some truly intelligent individuals with whom I'm more than happy and proud to say I know...(well, on here anyway
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Are you a parent? There are plenty of effective taunts that can be played. Is it bad that she enjoys the non profanity laiden ones? Is it bad that she likes to use some cute ones herself? You play the game the way you like to, why cant she? Do your rights to free speach have to trample all over hers?Palzon wrote:how bout this...
letting your kid play with taunts turned on when you know the game is laden with f-bombs is bad parenting. period.
I never said it was a problem, please re-read my post. I am only making a request, and stating that if people do not wish to honor the request, we will leave the game, go to another. Do not be offended if I/we do so.Palzon wrote:if you think this is ANYONE's problem but your own you should not have had a child in the first place.
Or leaving the current game. Options, options... Yes, this is an adult game, and not real life, and I am glad you have the freedom to say what you want. But Game, or Real life, I personally dont care for excessive use in either.Palzon wrote:the allowance for adult rated taunts is built into the game. that makes it an adult game while tuants are on. turning taunts off fixes the problem.
I never said I was, you are making that comment. I just dont do it, its the way I was brought up, and the enviroment that I work in. Its just not part of my life style. Nor is it the way my duaghter is being raised. She is in the 4th grade this year, and has been in the gifted program for 3 of those school years. I dont think that spouting profanities in class would be proper, nor would it be a proper enviroment for her to be in if others were doing it.Palzon wrote:oh and Barchetta, nice job jumping on the "i'm too cool for cursing" band wagon.
As I recall, she did not start this whole thing. Dosent sound like she is the one seeking attention.Palzon wrote:I can understand not wanting to expose virgin ears of a young child to a vulgar vocabulary, but i see Bettina as doing nothing but attention seeking.
Yes, I have, and I have many options open to me. I choose not to be around people that constantly curse, so again, please excuse me if I/we leave a game that has them used.Palzon wrote:You've heard the words before. Tune them out or turn them off.
What sanctions am I imposing on the rest of you? I made a statement, a request for those that may want to join my daughter and I in a game. If that request is not honored, I/we have the option to leave the game. No skin off your nose, right?Palzon wrote:i respect his point of view. i respect his preference. i think it is logical to not want your child exposed to vulgarity. i applaud the choice. but there is no logic in imposing sanctions on the rest of us, whether real or moral.
Just to answer your question, and this is not directed at you,Testiculese wrote:I'm curious why Red and Bett are 'leaving the game' because of a few bad taunts. Just turn them off until the taunter leaves, then turn them back on again.. This isn't complicated enough for 4 pages.
No, the word you used was 'censorship'. Here is what Wikipedia has to say on it: "Censorship is the use of governmental power to control speech and other forms of human expression..."Nosferatu wrote:One thing that makes me mader then anything else is someone trying to change the meaning of a word, just to fit their political agenda or win an argument.
The word is censor.
aside from the fact that you don't bother to address my points, you have proved nosferatu's points. wikipedia has much more to say about censorship than you posted, which is precisely what irked him in the first place. you define the time narrowly to suit your purposes.Pandora wrote:I think you might be referring to me:No, the word you used was 'censorship'. Here is what Wikipedia has to say on it: "Censorship is the use of governmental power to control speech and other forms of human expression..."Nosferatu wrote:One thing that makes me mader then anything else is someone trying to change the meaning of a word, just to fit their political agenda or win an argument.
The word is censor.
No government involved, it's just Bettina. And she certainly has no power to control your speach. She can just ask nicely, and if she's lucky you will accomodate her request. So... no censorship.
Ok....Since you asked...I will address it. First, nothing personalPalzon wrote:(taken out of context)
i would like to ask that people address how me limiting my speech is a better solution than someone who is offended turning the taunts off? why isn't the respectful, decent thing to do for the moralist to use the recourse with which they are clearly endowed; a mute button?
I take it that you mean not using the fword is sanatizing the experience? That the game would be altered in such a way as to be unplayable? That one word?....Palzon wrote: further, what about my point that leveling differences is an assault on expression, and further, that it sanitizes the experience to a point that it is fundamentally altered?
I get the increasing feeling from the community at large that they are now too cool to have any respect for others.Pandora wrote:No ... he just asks you to respect his morality. It's no great loss for you but a great gain for the other person. Why the need for being so defensive and hostile? It's supposed to be a community after all.
What was missing from the definition that would prove his point? I just looked at the Wikipedia definition and could not find anything. This is the definition i meant:Palzon wrote:aside from the fact that you don't bother to address my points, you have proved nosferatu's points. wikipedia has much more to say about censorship than you posted, which is precisely what irked him in the first place. you define the time narrowly to suit your purposes.
I have not obfuscated his point. I think he has obfuscated his own point. To call something "censorship" implies that the person doing the request has the power to limit his expression, like governments or media organs do. But single persons clearly do not. Even if asked not to use a certain taunt, he is not required to do so: he can still chose to play them without facing some adverse consequences.the point is not to focus on the single word he used but on his intent based on the context in which he used the word. he was trying to say that he didn't want his expression limited. don't obfuscate his point with some semantic hocus pocus.
i would like to ask that people address how me limiting my speech is a better solution than someone who is offended turning the taunts off? why isn't the respectful, decent thing to do for the moralist to use the recourse with which they are clearly endowed; a mute button?
I think both are possibilities, and which is finally chosen should be sorted by communication, on a single situation basis. Why do have to make up a fit-all rule - the "better solution" - for something that can also be sorted out between two persons? As Bettina already said: if it is so important for Nosferatu to play these taunts, he can still do so. Other people's play experience may not depend so much on playing offensive taunts, and they will gladly not play them to accomodate Bettina. What's the problem here?further, what about my point that leveling differences is an assault on expression, and further, that it sanitizes the experience to a point that it is fundamentally altered?
What has me ticked off is that I have seen that definition before and its wrong. Its an intentional redefining of the word so as not to appear as though someone is censoring.Pandora wrote:I have not obfuscated his point. I think he has obfuscated his own point. To call something "censorship" implies that the person doing the request has the power to limit his expression, like governments or media organs do. But single persons clearly do not. Even if asked not to use a certain taunt, he is not required to do so: he can still chose to play them without facing some adverse consequences.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. wrote:Censor
NOUN: 1. The act, process, or practice of censoring. 2. The office or authority of a Roman censor. 3. Psychology Prevention of disturbing or painful thoughts or feelings from reaching consciousness except in a disguised form.
NOTE: Entry number 1.
Censorship
1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable. 2. An official, as in the armed forces, who examines personal mail and official dispatches to remove information considered secret or a risk to security. 3. One that condemns or censures. 4. One of two officials in ancient Rome responsible for taking the public census and supervising public behavior and morals. 5. Psychology The agent in the unconscious that is responsible for censorship.
NOTE: Entry number 3
The notion that censoring and censorship requires legal athority before you can use those words, ticks me off to no end.Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition wrote:Censor
noun (plural cen·sors)
Definitions:
1. official removing objectionable material: an official who examines plays, movies, letters, or publications with a view to removing or banning content considered to be offensive or a threat to security
2. somebody who suppresses something: somebody or something that suppresses or controls something that may offend or harm others
3. ancient Roman official: in ancient Rome, either of two elected magistrates who were responsible for holding censuses, overseeing public morals, and controlling aspects of finance and taxation
4. psychiatry inhibiting force in mind: in psychology, a mechanism believed to be responsible for what can and cannot emerge from the subconscious to the conscious mind. It is thought to prevent harmful memories, ideas, and desires from reaching the conscious level.
NOTE: Entry number 2
cen·sor·ship
noun
Definitions:
1. suppression of published or broadcast material: the suppression of all or part of a play, movie, letter, or publication considered offensive or a threat to security
2. suppression of something objectionable: the suppression or attempted suppression of something regarded as objectionable
3. ancient Roman office: the office, authority, or term of an ancient Roman censor
4. psychiatry suppression of memories: the suppression of potentially harmful memories, ideas, or desires from the conscious mind
NOTE: Entry number 2
Wrong, she's an awesome pilot.Nosferatu wrote: Bettina, Its not that we donâ??t like you. We both appreciate that you are a fairly skilled pilot.
Maybe it will be a good idea when you suggest itNed wrote: People could also host specific games, like "Roadkill, no profanity." It might be a good idea as many young people don't need the embarrasement of that stuff coming over online.
Then be done alreadyNosferatu wrote:Anyway Im now done with this thread. Ive expressed my feelings. Suffice it to say there is little chance of anyones argument changing those feelings.
Why are you continuing with this? Geez, if your considering this a debate against "right and wrong", then you've won. I didn't realize you were so insecure and I hope you feel better now. I'm no longer going to try to convince people to protect their game, and I still operate like I always have. I ask nicely, and If the fword continues, I leave. In some cases, I leave immediately without comment. There is more than one game being played and I don't have a problem leaving, so there is no longer a "problem".Nosferatu wrote:No. I still dont think you understand. On 4 or 5 occasions, I was having a great game. I had 2 of my 4 taunts set as a good F word taunt and I was happilly using them and others were even giving me compliments and giving me LOLs from it. Then allong comes Bettina. And of course as soon as I use one of my taunts I get "Please stop using that taunt" from her. And of course she goes right on using "Im going to kill you" and "*KISS*" and that annoying little girl giggle, with impunity.
This is more a case of the annoying little girl trying to bully around her big brother with "Im gonna tell".
Well Im sorry but no one bullies me around.
I'll adhear to ServOps wishes if I hear that they dont want profanity running over their servers. That I can understand, in that they wish to make the server available to underage individuals. But if its allowed, Im using them.
I will not be the big brother held hostage by, "Im gonna tell mommy" or a white anglosakson protestant male bullied out of a job by affirmative action.
Im sorry if this is not very politically correct. When ever I hear any PC speak my hair just bristles. And this topic has made me just as mad and as fed up as everyone else. (Yes I know I started it)
Now Bettina, before you get real angry about my description of the above, I hope you at least think about it. I quite honestly felt like you were trying to do just that, in the games we played. I felt an (attempted) "little sister" stile bulling going on.
Anyway, one more time. I'll consent to censoring myself if others consent to censoring themselves as well, and not before that.
And kindly STFU about self censorship is not censorship.