Leaving a niggardly tip

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:39 am

I Manage and large Autobody shop and tips sound like a good idea so I've decieded that I want a gratuity for every estimate I write, I'll be generous and stay with just 10% HRM lets see I wrote $119,000 in service last month so thats what $11,900 in tips those customers owe me, I wrote $97,000 the month before so there's another $9,700, let see adding this ontop of my salary for a job I'm already getting paid to do, a tip is for quailty of service rendered, I have a HUGE problem with places that charge manditory tips, the amount of tip should be based on how well you feel you were treated

kufyit · Post by **kufyit** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:24 am

10% is horrible anyway Lobber. Unless someone personally disrespects me, I always tip very well. And what goes around, comes around I guess because I made close to a $1,000 in two days working at my bar last week.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:34 am

You need to remember that service type employment get p[aid less per hour then regular jobs so they need the tips to make up the diff. What you should do is just tip 10% instead of the 15% that is normal. If you ever gave me a 10 cent tip, I'd just never serve you again or if I had to, I'd make your meal very special.

Pun · Post by **Pun** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:45 am

I usually leave a tip equal to 20% of the bill, minus the taxes. In the event that I get poor service, I'll half that. I've never withheld a tip completely. If my server is really really bad, I'll complain to the management.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:21 pm

15% is normal? Jeez, you people are chintzy. 20% baseline, less if service is extremely bad, more if service is exemplary, especially if it's a large party.

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:49 pm

Well, it's interesting to see a cultural difference surface up here. For some reason, there is no tipping custom here in Belgium. Waiters get a decent salary without tip incomes, and the service is included in the food price. You pay the amount on the bill and that's that. I guess you can tip a waiter, but it'd be either so little that it is embarassing to do so, or else so much that the waiter might think you have your own agenda or something (or waitress

).

Though you can't express you felt like you had a bad service by not leaving anything...

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:30 pm

Lobber, that isn't fair to the waitress. I'm assuming that the order to give only one refill came from above- she probably doesn't want to enforce the rule any more than you want to have to pay the extra money. Here, waitresses live on their tips, I consider people who stiff waitresses, or leave meager tips low class. I tip 15% if I think the service was bad, 20% if it was normal, and 25% if I think it was extraordinary. Waitresses will make from 2.50 to maybe 4 or 5 an hour before tips- restaurants consider tips part of their salary.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:36 pm

I've never heard of the word "niggardly"...

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:32 pm

Dictionary.com

2 entries found for niggardly.
nigÂ·gardÂ·ly Audio pronunciation of "niggardly" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nee'gurd-lee)
adj.

1. Grudging and petty in giving or spending.
2. Meanly small; scanty or meager: left the waiter a niggardly tip.

niggardÂ·liÂ·ness n.
niggardÂ·ly adv.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:51 pm

Lobber wrote:It's insane for a restaurant to charge for a refill of coke, especially when you're being charged $2.50 a glass. It's unethical for them to do so.

What is unethical about it. They are offering a service and product. They are free to charge what ever they think their target customer base will pay. While it is true that most places give free refills; they don't do it because it is the ethical thing to do. They do it because they feel it will bring them more business.

As for the tip, tip what you want and don't worry about it. My baseline tip is 15%. It can go up or down depending on how good the service is.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:00 pm

So if I tip a dollar and all I get is water (free), that's like a what, however many times 0 goes into 1 times 100% tip? That's like way above 20%.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:03 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong Drakona/Lothar, but that would be the set of real numbers.

Anyways, don't tip based on the price of what you're getting. The waiter/waitress is trained and expected to upsell what is probably already an overpriced meal, but s/he doesn't set the prices. If you fall for it, it's your fault. The waiter/waitress is doing his/her job and you should tip according to how well s/he performs.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:17 am

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:15 am

Good one.

Robo · Post by **Robo** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:42 am

We don't tip over here. But when I'm abroad I just don't tip if I'm not happy with the service I get.

Palzon · Post by **Palzon** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:42 am

Tricord wrote:Well, it's interesting to see a cultural difference surface up here. For some reason, there is no tipping custom here in Belgium.

Most euro nations include gratuity in the bill, hence no tipping custom

bash · Post by **bash** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:16 pm

Sorta defeats the purpose of a tip as an economic incentive. Typical.

will_kill · Post by **will_kill** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:18 am

A tip is an offered(not mandatory) bonus for service recieved that a customer(of any sort) finds exemplary. The whole 'tip' idea has been twisted and reconfigured into some ugly notion of "Oh we have to tip these poor souls". Bah!I'm with Cuda...I want tips for all the work I perform as well then, since I always perform above and beyond. It's getting to be like blackmail for good service when in all actuality the friggin wait person should provide good service just because it's their friggin job! No wonder the Oriental's scoff at us.
I tip when I can afford it...If I'm too poor to afford a decent tip, I won't let that stop me from enjoying an expensive meal and politely thanking(rather than tipping) the waitstaff at the end of said meal.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:10 am

i would agree with you if it werent for the owners of these restaurants paying waiters and waitresses $2 an hour. who can live on that without tips?

if they made 7 or 8 an hour, i wouldnt tip nearly as much.

i generally tip well, as ive been a pizza driver and a waiter, both jobs relying on tips for income. usually for a 14.99 meal i'll give a $20 and that'll be that, as i remember what its like bringing home $20 for a days work, it sucks. one thing ive noticed from doing it, is that more often then not the richer folk are the non tippers or the laughable tippers, and the poor folk will at least give you $2 if they have it. its the middle class ones that tip the best

guess thats why the rich are rich though.

i dont do it based on percent myelf. if the service is bad, i'll only give a buck or 2 instead of 4 or 5. these people still gotta feed their families and people have bad days, so i usually keep that in mind when i tip and not totally deprive them of a tip at all if they were horrid. unless they're consistently rude or something every time i eat there, then they dont get any more than whats in my pocket, lint included.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:44 am

American service was far to much for my European upbringing to the point where i started saying to the waiter/waitress that they would recieve a much better tip if they left us alone. Afterwards they were perfect.

As i'm probably off to Florida in April i'll have to start saying it again.

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:54 am

kurupt wrote:i would agree with you if it werent for the owners of these restaurants paying waiters and waitresses $2 an hour. who can live on that without tips?

1) They wouldn't be getting such crappy wages if the government enforced minimum wage and people understood what a tip really was. The price of the meals are supposed to cover the cost of running the restaurant, which includes paying the staff. Tips are supposed to be reserved for performance above and beyond your expectations. If staff give bad service, then no tip and a referral to the management. If staff give adequate service, then no tip (because they're doing their job, no more, no less). If staff give exemplary performance, then you give them a tip, because they're not receiving their full value from the restaurant.

Somewhere along the way, tips became expected. Therefore, wages were lowered to compensate (of course, prices remain the same). So businesses make more money off meal prices, waitstaff make next to nothing, and we have to make up the difference. Of course, that just maintains the perverted idea of the tip even more, and shortchanges people who wait on those who are accustomed to the proper usage of tips.

2) If you can't live on your miniscule wages, then either find a new job, or start doing a really good job to get as much as possible in tips.

My wife and I tend to tip monetary values and not percentages, based on the number of people, the time we spent there, and of course the performance. We've given 100% before, and we've also given next to nothing.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:49 am

Plebe: the government specifically allows waiters and waitresses to be paid less than minimum wage. For example, in NY, minimum wage is $5.15 an hour, but for waiters it's $3.75 because they are supposed to bust their asses to make up the difference in tips.

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:03 am

DCrazy wrote:Plebe: the government specifically allows waiters and waitresses to be paid less than minimum wage.

I know. Which is why I say they're not enforcing the minimum wage. Tips are supposed to be above and beyond, not instead of wages. Why not just have everyone paid with tips and nothing else? You'll be employed by someone, but they'll never pay you a dime. You have to rely on random people, and if you get unlucky and run into people who are in particularly bad moods or just stingy, then you're pretty much screwed.

It's like removed standards from the equation. Usually there's an expected level of quality. If you don't meet it, you get penalized. If you exceed it, then you get rewarded. In service industries, the "reward" is the tip. The "penalty" should be handled on the employer's side, and not just "Oh, you were a horrible server, so you only get 15%."

That's just IMO, but I really think things are out of hand. They need to be paid more in wages, and not have to rely on us to make a living. There's the argument that as it's service it should be left up to us, but we can do that with rewarding good service and reporting bad service to the employers. People are inconsistent, and you can have a very good person making less than a very bad one just by virtue of the people they've been serving. Now that doesn't seem right.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:42 pm

I completely agree with you, Plebeian. It's one of the many reasons I'd absolutely never consider getting a job in food service. Having to rely on the uncertain goodwill of strangers to make the salary that you should be earning in the first place is completely absurd. I never eat out on my own, but when my family goes out somewhere, my parents usually tip around 15%, since that's the expected standard. I always feel sorry for the servers, since even with tips, I'd wager that they're making less than many other jobs.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:31 pm

I hear what you guys are saying, but on the other hand, a good waiter/waitress can make a really good living for themselves. I guess I'm saying that I think the difference between a good waiter's salary and a bad waiter's salary should be the difference between making a pretty good living, and kinda scraping through, instead of kinda scraping through and minimum wage.

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:29 pm

snoopy wrote:I hear what you guys are saying, but on the other hand, a good waiter/waitress can make a really good living for themselves. I guess I'm saying that I think the difference between a good waiter's salary and a bad waiter's salary should be the difference between making a pretty good living, and kinda scraping through, instead of kinda scraping through and minimum wage.

It definitely should be. But the difference I'd like to see is that minimum wage is enforced, and that based on the expected service level of the place, the wage ranges should be appropriately placed. So someone working at a higher-class restaurant should be getting paid a lot more than someone just working at the local practically-fast-food place.

Really good people at low-end places should make a lot in tips, making up for the base wages of a low-end place. Really bad people should get nothing in tips (but not have to live in a cardboard box because of it). People working at higher-end places should be expected to perform at a higher level, and should be tipped according to that higher bar. What may be good service at the local dive may not fly in Chez Expensive downtown.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:13 pm

When my server sucks and I'm tempted to leave a bad tip, I always take into account how busy the place is. If my waitron is busting their ass but just can't keep up, I'll still tip well. But when it's dead in the restaurant and they spend all their time chatting with the other stewardesses instead of bringing me another drink, they're going to suffer!

Pun · Post by **Pun** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:38 pm

Actually, Plebe, mimimum wage IS enforced for tipped workers. The tip income is meant to be reported and the total of the hourly wages and the declared tips have to meet or surpass the minimum wage.

On the flipside, most waiters/waitresses make a lot more than minimum wage, and most of it is cash that they dont declare, which even makes a bigger difference.

It's not uncommon for the girls at the local pizza joint in our town to clear $150 in a 6 hour shift. Seems like pretty goot cash to me.

I'm sure the laws vary somewhat state by state, but here in IL the law is as follows:

IDOL wrote: What is minimum wage in Illinois?

Minimum wage in Illinois is $6.50 per hour for those individuals who are 18 years and older. Those under 18 years of age may be paid at the rate of $6.00 per hour.

What is minimum wage for tipped employees?

$3.90 per hour. Tipped employees must be paid minimum wage, but an employer may take credit for the employeeâ??s tips in an amount not to exceed 40% of the wage.

will_kill · Post by **will_kill** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:54 pm

WoW!Thx Plebian for saying what I did'nt know how to

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:34 am

punisher wrote:Actually, Plebe, mimimum wage IS enforced for tipped workers. The tip income is meant to be reported and the total of the hourly wages and the declared tips have to meet or surpass the minimum wage.

Sort of. There's a lot of guesswork going on, and there's a percentage of cash vs. credit tips that they assume. Or at least, that's how the IRS handles it. If you have nobody paying you with cash, you're screwed because they assume you're getting whatever percentage in cash.

And yes, some people can pull in some nice earnings. And lots of them may not even deserve half of whatever they got, because it's more or less mandatory to give X% (though as is pretty obvious, some people's "standard" is really low or really high compared to that figure). I'm not debating whether it's possible to pull in a lot of money in tips, I just question whether it's necessarily the right people, and whether we should be subjecting them to our whims.

If there was a minimum figure for standard purposes, then they have that guaranteed from their employers (not a tip anymore, but a "commission" of sorts, though you still have to contend with different customers ordering different values of meals -- which is why we deal with the service by itself), and only have to worry about the "extra" from us, so the variations should even out a bit.

But the system's so screwed up by now that there's probably no hope of ever reeling it back in.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:45 am

Fortunately in Europe, we don't tip and waiters get proper wages.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:27 am

TIGERassault wrote:Fortunately in Europe, we don't tip and waiters get proper wages.

Glad you've determined that you're better qualified to decide what is a "proper wage". Because you obviously paid attention to the fact that the law requires that if a waiter doesn't make minimum wage when tips are factored in that the employer must make up the difference. Besides, you're European, how could you possibly be wrong?

Leaving a niggardly tip

Would you leave a niggardly tip for bad service?

Leaving a niggardly tip