Descent related lawsuits......
Descent related lawsuits......
Has anyone heard of any lawsuits towards Descent fans, such as copy write violations?
If you're hinting about my fight with the moderator and that warz site, i was banned already for a bit. So I'm not backing into that hole again. 
And if you're hinting about all the comics i've posted in the PTMC gallery section, i'll take my chances (please go check em out! Not alot of people are...
).
No i just would like to know what has gotten the attention of the companies of â??descentâ??.
And if you're hinting about all the comics i've posted in the PTMC gallery section, i'll take my chances (please go check em out! Not alot of people are...
). No i just would like to know what has gotten the attention of the companies of â??descentâ??.
Well, the only one I'm aware of was Interplay sending a cease-and-desist to the Descent Network for their MVEPLAY program. Interplay's MVE movie format was a closely-guarded secret because it was so good at compressing movies and fast playback on older machines. They liked it so much that they used it for all of their trailers; they wrote a small player program and attached the movie file to the end of the EXE.
When Heiko Herrman and the other developers at DNet realized this, they released a utility that would combine the player stub (the first 1000 or so bytes from one of the trailers Interplay had released) with whatever MVE file you wanted. This allowed people to play the cutscenes from Descent 2 and any other Interplay game outside of the game itself. Interplay didn't take kindly to this and forced DNet to stop distributing MVEPLAY and to remove the code from their future versions of Descent Manager.
Following the collapse of Interplay, someone hacked out the MVE format and released a code library to make decoding of MVE files possible (no more stinky EXE stub). The format is a bit of a mess (a relic of its time -- it relies on self-modifying code) but it's pretty interesting to see how the engine worked. It's not quite as advanced as MPEG, but for its purpose it was quite a piece of work. Coincidentally, the guy who worked out the file format was working from Baldur's Gate 2 movies, not Descent.
When Heiko Herrman and the other developers at DNet realized this, they released a utility that would combine the player stub (the first 1000 or so bytes from one of the trailers Interplay had released) with whatever MVE file you wanted. This allowed people to play the cutscenes from Descent 2 and any other Interplay game outside of the game itself. Interplay didn't take kindly to this and forced DNet to stop distributing MVEPLAY and to remove the code from their future versions of Descent Manager.
Following the collapse of Interplay, someone hacked out the MVE format and released a code library to make decoding of MVE files possible (no more stinky EXE stub). The format is a bit of a mess (a relic of its time -- it relies on self-modifying code) but it's pretty interesting to see how the engine worked. It's not quite as advanced as MPEG, but for its purpose it was quite a piece of work. Coincidentally, the guy who worked out the file format was working from Baldur's Gate 2 movies, not Descent.
Isaac, not sure if it will help, but you could try Findlaw
Matt Toschlog, Mike Kulas...Isaac wrote:I wish i could interview the creator of descent... lol think i could find that guy or gal?
They should be around somewhere. As far as I know Kulas is still running Volition, but I don't know where Matt Toschlog is these days (used to be chief of Outrage, which as you'll know made Descent 3 - perhaps he's now working for THQ).
Edit: Oh, and regarding the 'chronicles' stuff, I would be more than happy to add my bit; granted, I don't know everything, but I have a reasonable memory of what happened on the single-player missions scene, and can remember details about a few clans from 97-8 or so.
It wouldnâ??t be a bad idea to write out the history of descent with every lawsuit they dealt with including the complicated events, that brought the rise and fall of this great game. Start off explaining how it should have become a giant, like Final Fantasy, GTA, Quake, and Doom, then end with a few recent words, from everyone who could potentially make descent move forward againâ?¦
But even if we just gathered the facts in one document it would be helpful for fans, to see whatâ??s too illegal to produce or change.
â?¦and if they ever make do make a descent 4, they would most likely include an â??extrasâ?? video section on how descent vanished for so long. And where do you think theyâ??re going to go for the most discussed information on descent? Is there any other forum that knows more on this topic? A compiled document posted on the history of descent on dbb is a great idea, and just about anyone here can help if the felt like it. In fact, if dbb still has every comment since the beginning, it just might already hold the entire history of the game! In which case Iâ??ll probably just dive into it all, for the fun of it.
But even if we just gathered the facts in one document it would be helpful for fans, to see whatâ??s too illegal to produce or change.
â?¦and if they ever make do make a descent 4, they would most likely include an â??extrasâ?? video section on how descent vanished for so long. And where do you think theyâ??re going to go for the most discussed information on descent? Is there any other forum that knows more on this topic? A compiled document posted on the history of descent on dbb is a great idea, and just about anyone here can help if the felt like it. In fact, if dbb still has every comment since the beginning, it just might already hold the entire history of the game! In which case Iâ??ll probably just dive into it all, for the fun of it.
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It does not, when the DBB was migrated to phpBB the decision was made to prune everything older then a few months to accelerate the process. And the DBB database has been lost in the past when it was UBB based.Isaac wrote:In fact, if dbb still has every comment since the beginning, it just might already hold the entire history of the game! In which case Iâ??ll probably just dive into it all, for the fun of it.
you'll need http://www.archive.org/ isaac
eg: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.descentbb.net
the archive for the DBB wasn't complete though. there are more UNarchived threads than archived ones.
eg: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.descentbb.net
the archive for the DBB wasn't complete though. there are more UNarchived threads than archived ones.
It isnt focused on 'the community' but I have posted Sirian's 'History of Descent on Kali' several times.
here it is one more time. (There was even an addition on the IDL forums years ago - I do not have that one)
here it is one more time. (There was even an addition on the IDL forums years ago - I do not have that one)
History of descent
On Kali
The following was written by The founder of The Descent Rangers, current IDL Policy director, genuine 'Old Timer' and all around great guy, Sirian.
12/3/97 Written by Sirian
Here is a rundown of all the major Internet Descent groups.
The Official Descent Ladder was founded some time after Kali came out in late 1995. This was THE spot where the skilled players played, until it lost prestige due to scandals about possible cheating by ladder members, including the ladder adminstrator and top-ranked player, AaronB. If you have never heard the name Aaron Brinton, then you qualify as a Kali Newbie as I define the term. I still remember the day that kLUB_mARCUS beat Aaron in a ladder match and took the top spot on the ladder, then got trounced in the rematch a few days later. Marcus is now an orb player and can be found at the D server from time to time. Aaron has stopped using his Kali account. He was a driving force behind Kahn, Kali's only significant direct rival. Aaron resigned from the ladder after the hubbub even though he was innocent of cheating. He later decided to reset the database, and this did not go over well with many players; the official ladder never recovered. Some players WERE in fact cheating! , via ping floods and other methods, and some folks (accounts differ on who they were) impersonated Aaron on several occasions. This happened during the time that Jay Cotton had taken down the registration of nicks, where the first person to log on with a nick got possession of that nick until he logged off. Gunr can tell you about that one: I remember the day he got fed up with playing tag over the name Gunner, and I suggested to him switching to Gunr, which he did. Jay went back to registered nicks largely as a result of what happened to AaronB. As for the fate of the official ladder, it no longer exists.
The DTF (Descent Task Force) was the first Kali Descent league. A few Rangers were members of DTF, including Cemada, Jandor and Cyberchill. Other prominent DTF members included Bman and Neitzl. The DTF was most active around the time that Descent 2 was released, then faded into obscurity and eventually merged into the PPG.
TFTDFS (The First Tactical Descent Fighter Squadron) was founded at about the same time as DTF, but was much slower to take off. Except for the founder and his personal friends, no games were played by this league. I (Sirian) joined TFTDFS via a websearch on Descent, and tracked down both Kali and IHHD through links on the D-Squad page. Other members of D-Squad included KoolBear (under his original nick, which SHALL go unnamed by me =) and Share!, and several members of the atLANta crew. When Cem resigned from DTF and led a defection of DTF members to TFTDFS, and when the D-Squad "Admiral" appointed him XO, Cem tried to jump start TFTDFS into activity. He did so by flaming his former leader in the DTF (the D-Squad's rivals) and trying to start what amounted to a clan war between the two groups. His actions got him resoundingly flamed by the DTF's XO, Bman, in alt.games.descent, which at the time was THE forum for the game. I defended Cem in the newsgroup, putting out Bman's fl! ame and then flaming him back in a way he could not put out, and that began the relationship between Cemada and myself. When we resigned from TFTDFS to start the Rangers, my rival, Darkminion, won the XO spot with D-Squad, but managed to hold things together for just a couple weeks. TFTDFS folded before the Rangers played their first official games.
The PPG (Pyro Pilots Guild) are the oldest surviving internet Descent group. They were formed on IRC and played their first games using the old program IHHD (Internet Head to Head Daemon) which allowed only for one on one games. Only the oldest of the old remember that thing. Many of the PPG are old timers, highly skilled, who hang out on IRC and play mostly one on one games. Some of these guys are stand-off-ish, respecting only folks who travel in their circle, and some of them are rather cocky; but most will respect you if you show both flying skill and a knowledge of unwritten ettiquette prominent among folks with very low Kali Serial numbers. This can be a rough environment, very much sink or swim, and accounts for why many of the newer PPG members do not remain with the group for long. Although they do sometimes track game results, and maintain a pilot rating on most members, I would not call the PPG a league. Karash has described them as, "The bar you go to hang out at in between venturing into the mines."
The Rangers were founded on May 1, 1996. The Rangers were the very first Descent TWO group. All previous groups began as D1 groups. The first scored games were played on May 17, the first Associates were invited to join on May 25, and the Rangers opened for business on June 10. I resigned as Commander at the end of August and (for a while) stopped playing Descent. Cemada has been the Commander since then, except for a brief hiatus in which first Swazook (as XO in charge) then Vyper (as Cmdr) ran the show.
The Wildcards were founded in mid May of 1996. The Cards are the only significant league besides the Rangers ever to form on Kali. Wildcards founder IamtheGre has often made the claim that he was one of the original Rangers, but this is not true. He did have ties to Jandor and was a member prospect, but he never was a part of the group. The Wildcards began playing in late May, at about the same time that the Rangers were playing their first games. Except for the Rangers, Wildcards, and now the DMC, the rest have been either guilds or clans, or have failed to maintain operation for more than a short length of time. The Wildcards have departed from their original multiplayer scoring system and now rate players primarily via head to head games, in a ladder format.
Cases Ladder began with C&C (Command and Conquer) at the Netertainment server, and slowly expanded to become the largest gaming ladder in the world. Descent (both 1 and 2) was added in July or August of 1996. I was a member of Cases Ladder for two months, playing the game Deadlock (right after I had resigned from the Rangers and quit playing Descent), and I can say that Case (who lives only 30 miles from me) does his very best to maintain quality control on his ladder. With a group so large, it is impossible to keep an eye on everyone. So the lack of class sometimes exhibited by Cases members is due, IMO, to the lack of pride and group spirit exhibited by the members themselves. In effect, Cases Descent ladders are much more a collection of individual players playing under one system than anything resembling an actual group. While many Cases players are good sports, many others are glory-seekers, to whom rank means far more than is healthy. Some of these folks can be truly obn! oxious, and thus Cases Ladder has a very mixed reputation in the Descent community. Despite this, Cases Descent ladders boast the largest membership count of any Descent groups ever.
The DMC (Dark Mavericks Collegiate) are a relative newcomer to the realm of Kali D groups. They are the only major guild to emerge from the endless ranks of clans to an undisputedly legitimate status. The DMC regularly maintain a presence at the D server. It seems that at least a few of them can always be spotted in chat. I recently gave permission to DMC founder Vlider to use my KP/GP scoring system for the DMC. Whether this will lead to any sort of interleague relationship between Rangers and DMC, I do not know.
ACE was a short-lived league based primarily on Ranger rules and traditions, in pale imitation. I did not get to know many of the ACE players. ACE emerged at about the same time as DMC and was their rival for its duration.
GOP is the largest and most prominent of the clans. I am acquainted with a few of the GOP, but not nearly as well as I know the leaders and members of other groups. As a result, I don't really know very much about them. Their membership plays primarily on Cases Ladder and those who do are all highly ranked in that system.
IDL, the Invitational Descent Ladder, was founded in April of 1997. The IDL is only the second group (besides the Rangers) to implement and exercise a rigorous admissions policy, requiring recommendations from current members for new members to be admitted. (I am not counting clans who required a rite of passage). IDL's vision is to create a platform that brings together only the most skilled players in an organized fashion to compete one on one. Karash, the IDL founder, convinced me to give his ladder a try even though I had always despised Descent ladders, mostly for the way that egos ran rampant and that matches were handled. I actually enjoyed IDL enough that I accepted Karash's invitation to join his staff and have since been a major contributor to its growth and development. The IDL recently underwent reorganization, including a two tier setup, more rigorous admission policy, plus a new rating system designed and flow charted by me. As of this writing, I am one of four p! layers who have held the top rank on the IDL, and it has grown to include over a hundred members.
Major local groups include:
SFDL (South Florida Descent League). The SFDL has some awesome players. LAN play hones the skills the most (with solo play a distant but important second) when it comes to pure flying and coordination. Kali play involves lag and other net anomalies that must be consciously adjusted for if you are to succeed as a pilot. As a result of playing so much without the weirdnesses of the net, nearly all the members of major local LAN groups are also top notch players, and SFDL was the first of the major local groups. I am only lightly acquainted with these guys, so I can't tell you much about their history, but I am soon moving to Florida and will be joining their ranks once there.
The atLANta Crew. Most of these guys are personal friends with one another and they play WAY too much Descent. As a result, if you run across one of their games on a quiet server some night, and join in, be prepared to face a nest of hornets. Every last one of them is a tri-chording fool, aggressive beyond measure and used to coping with the circumstances of large games. They LOVE the fusion cannon, and have coined ALL the historic fusion quotes passed around on Kali, including the one postered on the walls in Spaz's new D2 mission, Muses, "Bow to fusion D2 Boy!" Not even a convention of Ranger elite create as stiff competition as this crew does. The ONLY times I have finished large games with more deaths than kills (this year) have been games that involved at least two from the atLANta crew. And though I had bad blood with two former atLANta members, Darkminion and Mobious, back in the days of TFTDFS, these guys are no longer part of the crew. I got to meet the atLANta guys a! t the Nov 97 Dfest in NY, and they are a fun bunch. Their members either won or shared in first place in every category at the fest except for 4 on 4 teams, where they placed second.
NYDP, New York Descent Players. These guys are based in upstate NY and meet often to play LAN games. If you ever wondered why the word "mugging" is associated with New York, these guys will be happy to demonstrate.
Tri-State Gaming Krib. Also based in NY, this group is founded and run by my old buddy Descentile, who is one of the coolest cats around. The Krib and NYDP are allies as well as rivals, and often attend each other's LAN parties. The Krib team won the 4 on 4 team tournament (70-64) at the Nov 97 NY Dfest in what may be the most memorable multiplayer game ever played.
ROX. The ROX clan boasts several members who are Kali old timers, including the former #2 player from the official ladder, a guy named Scoundrl who used to pummel AaronB until Aaron became top notch. I do not know much about the group itself, as of yet, except that most of them live in the northwest US.
It is no coincidence that members of these LAN groups are top ranked players on the IDL, since I've already said, LAN play hones the skills better than anything else, and LAN group members play LOTS of Descent.
Major Clans include:
GADA was a secret clan that included only members with Kali serial numbers under 1000. They used to hang out at Central in a channel called ShaDowS.
There was also a secret clan made up only of folks with ISDN or T1 connections. They too stayed off the beaten path, but failed to stay off the public sockets, so some of you may remember seeing games titled "ISDN+" or "ISDN only" in olden times. This was almost always an instance of this secret clan in action.
The Death Clan, {}. This clan was founded by Satan{}, who also is known as SPREAD97. SPREAD is one of the old bad boys of Kali. He can be patently obnoxious and is widely despised, but is a skilled pilot and a real character who can be fun to play with if you don't let him upset you. SPREAD has often been named with the likes of Zod and Vader (two obnoxious cheats who got caught ping-flooding on Kali -- cheating -- and had their serials revoked; who have sued Jay Cotton and have been the subject of much (unwarranted) attention in the no-longer-prominent alt.games.descent newsgroup). SPREAD doesn't really belong in that crowd; as far as I know he does not cheat, but he is often his own worst enemy when it comes to his reputation. His clan faded away eventually, but he has recently begun an effort to start it up again, under a new name. His acceptance to the IDL caused a mass exodus of resignations by other members, who are unimpressed with his slow evolution from obnoxious to a! player who deserves respect for more than his skills (a journey with ground left to be covered). SPREAD flies under many names, but his style never changes. Anyone familiar with his macro overkill and his ego and his humor can easily spot him in games. A large part of the IDL reorganization was aimed at bringing back members who quit, some who quit over SPREAD's joining and others who quit over other quality-control measures.
DA. I don't remember much about the DA, except that it was eventually swallowed by the DMC. Several Rangers are former DA members who may know the history of the group.
The D1 Clan, |} This clan emerged in response to D2 when D2 first came out. Several players, mostly skilled vets, reacted poorly to some of D2's new toys, especially the earthshaker, afterburner, helix and smart mines. Most new levels had ALL the weapons. In fact, Karash's Speed Racer Pro was the first good level to come out without a shaker in it. Even Caress of Steel had a shaker in its first version, and Gwar (who designed that lev) hates shakers. The D1 clan was really big for a month or two, even luring my friend Lupo into its ranks. (He wouldn't join the Rangers because he absolutely HATED D2).
The WTF clan, . This clan never grew large, but it's still around, thanx to founder Saruman and his small but loyal membership. These guys are good players.
There have been so many clans over the years that I may have forgotten some that made a brief splash. These are the ones I DID remember, so I will let that speak for itself.
SUMMARY:
Group: Official Descent Ladder
Founded: fall 1995
Type: Ladder
Game: D1
Status: Disbanded
Group: DTF
Founder: "Admiral" NRG
Founded: winter 1996
Type: League
Game: D1, D2 added April 1996
Status: Absorbed into PPG, fall 1996
Group: TFTDFS
Founder: Dav-eed
Founded: winter 1996
Type: League
Game: D1, D2 added April 1996
Status: Disbanded summer 1996
Group: PPG
Founder: Danek
Founded: March 1996
Type: Guild
Game: D1, D2 added June 1996
Hangout: IRC EFNet #ppg, #descent
Status: Healthy
Group: The Descent Rangers
Founder: Sirian
Founded: May 1, 1996
Type: League
Game: D2
Hangout: Rangers Kali server
Current Leader: Cemada (original Ranger XO) (former TFTDFS XO)
Status: Healthy
Group: Wildcards
Founder: IamtheGre
Founded: mid May 1996
Type: League (changed to Ladder summer 1997)
Game: D2
Hangout: Wildcards Empire Kali server
Current Leader: "Emperor" Zonerie
Status: Healthy
Group: Cases Descent Ladders
Founder: Case
Founded: July or August 1997
Type: Ladder
Game: D1 and D2, originally mixed, now separate.
Status: Healthy
Group: DMC
Founder:VLiDER
Founded: Nov 1996
Type: Guild/League
Game: D2 (mostly)
Hangout: ->Descent<- Kali server, IRC EFNET #dmc-hq
Status: Healthy
Group: ACE
Founder: (uncertain)
Founded: winter 1997
Type: League
Game: D2
Status: Disbanded, winter 1997
Group: GOP
Founder: TheAnarchist
Founded: Dec 1996
Type: Guild
Game: D1 (mostly)
Hangout: SSI Kali server
Status: Healthy
Group: IDL
Founder: Karash
Founded: April 1997
Type: Ladder
Game: D1 and D2
Hangout: IRC EFNet #300baud. Members play most often at SSI Kali server.Hangout: IRC EFNet #300baud. Members play most often at SSI Kali server.
Status: Healthy
I hope this offers players a sense of perspective on where their groups fit in Kali Descent history. IMO, the Rangers are the most organized league, providing far and away the best multiplayer gaming environment for players. They are the ONLY group that ever has, and perhaps ever will, embrace all modes of play in Descent. As far as skill goes, they have always valued honesty and sportsmanship FIRST, and thus may be outclassed in overall skill by a handful of other groups; but even so, not by a lot. In terms of large games, only the LAN groups have them clearly outmatched. The rest play mostly one on one. As for ladders, the IDL provides the best overall environment for players, valuing skill first but also placing a high premium on class and maturity. Among the guilds, PPG is oldest and has always been the standard bearer. And as for the LAN groups, SFDL has set the standard there, and everyone else has followed in their footsteps.
I am proud to have created the Ranger identity and designed the Ranger system. If imitation is the highest form of flattery, then the Rangers, to one degree or another, have been flattered at least some by just about every group out there except the PPG. Ranger success will continue for as long as they represent the highest ideals of fair play, honor, integrity and humility. Trash talking is for the lame. Rangers let their performance speak for itself. I am also proud of my contributions to the IDL, which has flourished tremendously and provides a quality gaming environment unprecedented among ladders.
Special thanks to Ranger Commander Cemada, who has carried the torch for far longer than I did. The Rangers are still around as a group ONLY because Cem has done the work to make it so. Thanks also go out to Karash, Danek, IamtheGre, and Vlider, for their contributions to this compendium.
Sirian
Founder of the Descent Rangers
IDL Policy Director
Thank you sirian
Re: Descent related lawsuits......
i should sue you for even asking this questionIsaac wrote:Has anyone heard of any lawsuits towards Descent fans, such as copy write violations?
On PD, there is a thread where people can volunteer to help with putting together new/updated guides, walkthroughs, tips to playing Descent 1, 2, and 3. Just go here
Why did I mention this?
We are also interested in the chronological history of the Descent series with information regarding key participants, companies, sites, etc. If you have information you can contribute to this, please volunteer!
Why did I mention this?
We are also interested in the chronological history of the Descent series with information regarding key participants, companies, sites, etc. If you have information you can contribute to this, please volunteer!
I agree big time
Isaac wrote:It wouldnâ??t be a bad idea to write out the history of descent with every lawsuit they dealt with including the complicated events, that brought the rise and fall of this great game. Start off explaining how it should have become a giant, like Final Fantasy, GTA, Quake, and Doom, then end with a few recent words, from everyone who could potentially make descent move forward againâ?¦
But even if we just gathered the facts in one document it would be helpful for fans, to see whatâ??s too illegal to produce or change.
â?¦and if they ever make do make a descent 4, they would most likely include an â??extrasâ?? video section on how descent vanished for so long. And where do you think theyâ??re going to go for the most discussed information on descent? Is there any other forum that knows more on this topic? A compiled document posted on the history of descent on dbb is a great idea, and just about anyone here can help if the felt like it. In fact, if dbb still has every comment since the beginning, it just might already hold the entire history of the game! In which case Iâ??ll probably just dive into it all, for the fun of it.