Rules and Reg's What are they for ...

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:52 pm

After reviewing the conversations in here, I am shocked, originally we didn't allow politics and religious discussions on the DBB, and some of these conversations really belong behind closed doors.

5 - Avoid religion and politics discussions.

These "sensitive" conversations most always seem to end in a flame war. Topics of this nature won't be tolerated on the DBB. We realize that we all are protected by the 1st Admendment of the US Constitution, but let's remember:

This is a PRIVATE BB not PUBLIC this entiltitles the DBB and it's staff to decide what is acceptable.

Please be aware that these rules are in place from experience, including #5. Every attempt we made over the years to try to accomodate those issues on the board met with no success. So keep in mind that the focus of the DBB is a game called Descent, and as such should be a place where people are enjoying themselves (ie. not openly fighting in the threads)

It appears to me that for the most part flamewars are minimal, but never the less I would imagine that we will see the E&C forum and the NHB forum under a category of Adult Conversations Password required to view these forums!

It seems like all are doing pretty good but there is still conversations here that I really wouldn't want my son reading.

Thoughts, feelings or concerns ....

***** UPDATED *****
A pol was requested I have 4 options listed below

It seems like there are three choices...

Option 1) Do nothing, allow all forums to lapse into chaos

Option 2) Clean House tough moderation on the E&C move all P&R threads into the NHB (NHB'rs would hate this one)

Option 3) Create a new category titled...
Adult Discussion Forums
nest the NHB under it
and move the E&C under it lock'um them down to specific user groups.

Option 4) Create a new category titled...
Adult Discussion Forums
nest the NHB under it
and move the E&C under it leave NHB locked and E&C open.

Speak up! AND VOTE

KB

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:05 pm

This board has matured since you set it up. The 12 & 13 year old kids are adults now. Why just look at Haggey.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:10 pm

While what you say might be true true there are more joining weekly.

But read through some of these, I would say while they might have gotten older in age, that doesn't mean they have in mentality

Anyone else have an opinion?

Unless there a good reason to leave this embarassing forum in the publics view I will be restructuring it soon.

Adult Conversations
--> NHB - LOCKED
--> E&C - LOCKED

Don't get me wrong for the most part everyone seems to be doing fine, still some of these conversations are better suited behind closed doors.

When you ★■◆● in your britches do you hang them on a clothes line in your front yard? I didn't think so, nor do I so I would rather hang these out where only those that aren't faint of heart can read them.

KB

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:24 pm

I do.

E&C is tame in itself, disregarding any comparison to the rest of the political forums to the internet (except the hardcore censorship ones where you can't say anything except what is pre-approved). There is no need to hide it.

Iceman · Post by **Iceman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:42 pm

I see no problem with hiding it ... your call as far as I am concerned.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:43 pm

So out of couriosity, how do you lock a adult conversation? What are the limits? Is subtle innuendo to be locked? Are we all going to have to get our teddy bears out and suck our thumbs while we post? It seems to me that limiting the free ranging form of expression that is the earmark of the DBB will in the long term sign it's demise. Just my 2 cents.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:00 pm

Thanks Chip,

Your words of encouragement make me fell much better.

You know origianlly there was NO religious or Political discussions allowed. I think that is what set the DBB apart. There's nothing that says you can discuss these items just that you must join a usergroup to do so, that way it will keep someone from inadverently finding themselves in a conversation that they really may not want to be a part of.

KB

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 pm

I actually liked it when NHB was where the political/religeous threads were kept. Moderation was kept to the absolute minimum. Blowhards like myself could blab, and people could dump on us at will without fear of overstepping some subjective line. What could be better?

TheCope · Post by **TheCope** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:05 pm

I thought the whole point of the E&C was to open up the discussions. The E&C is the reason the NHB dropped off traffic wise. The NHB used to be where we shot off our opinions.

I don't get it.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:08 pm

Vander wrote:I actually liked it when NHB was where the political/religeous threads were kept. Moderation was kept to the absolute minimum. Blowhards like myself could blab, and people could dump on us at will without fear of overstepping some subjective line. What could be better?

Exactly my point Vander, as time progresses everything tends to creep; sometimes to the left sometimes to the right but they always will always creep. The purpose of the E&C as shown below (taken from the Forum List)...

Forum Index wrote: Ethics and Commentary
For discussion of life's issues: current events, social trends and personal opinions - profound to mundane. NOTE: please review the DBB Policies re. appropriate topics

The mis-use of the forum has gone on so long that people have forgotten and the new people just think that is the way it is supposed to be. E&C is lost to a caliber of converstation that the NHB was created for.

My 5 cents ....

KB

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:14 pm

maybe now the political waggering can go to where it belongs. a political board.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:15 pm

Ferno wrote:maybe now the political waggering can go to where it belongs. a political board.

x2

TigerRaptor · Post by **TigerRaptor** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:29 pm

I like the way you think at times Ferno.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:43 pm

It seems like there are three choices...

1) Do nothing, allow all forums to lapse into chaos

2) Clean House tough moderation on the E&C move all P&R threads into the NHB (NHB'rs would hate this one)

3) Create a new category titled...
Adult Discussion Forums
nest the NHB under it
and move the E&C under it
lock'um them down to specific user groups.

The DBB is a great place and it will remain to be as long as we are diligent. We should maintain the Ethical Standards that made the DBB "The Community Forums"
...

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:48 pm

Option # 3 I like. We shouldn't stop political or religious conversations but lock them out from say 16 and under.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:58 pm

I don't see whats broken.

Look at the topics being discussed. I've seen other political forums, the dbb is very tame in contrast.

This is how I see it: If I didn't want my kid discussing politics/ethics, I wouldn't let him on the internet without me sitting right next to him.

If I did want my kid discussing politics/ethics, I would rather it in a place like this then 99% of what else is out there on the internet.

We are so locked in it doesn't really matter what happens. I just dont see the need for change. But whatever happens works.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:12 pm

KoolBear wrote: There's nothing that says you can discuss these items just that you must join a usergroup to do so, that way it will keep someone from inadverently finding themselves in a conversation that they really may not want to be a part of.

KB

The problem here is this is a pretty well oiled group of posters. Most of us have been posting here for years and know one another as well as people posting on the internet can. Your assertion that someone may "inadvertantly" find themselves ensnared in a inappropriate conversation fails to acknowledge that getting out of said topic is only a mouse click away. What goes on here is "posting" not "conversation". The stated purpose of E&C:

"Ethics and Commentary
For discussion of life's issues: current events, social trends and personal opinions - profound to mundane."

Tell me how one can discuss "current events" and not discuss religion or even politics. Where is politics and religion divorced from "social trends"? Personal opinions may be based on religion and/or politics when discussing any number of topics. So you see KB, even the rule definition as stated would have to include what you want to lock away.
Lock away E&C and NHB and guess where the forbidden fruit will show up. The PTMC forum might as well be locked away also. If you want the DBB to be a strictly game orientated board then you should be stripping out any forum that might lend itself to harboring discussions you do not approve of.

On a harsher note, with all due respect, you are shocked at what is being posted here...why? You make a appearance (which we enjoy) maybe once every couple of years and like Rip Van Winkle you wake up to a changed world that you can't comprehend. I suspect if you posted here on a regular basis nothing would seem that much out of the ordinary. Freedom of expression is a heady experience and I suppose that is why it is number one in our constitution. Close or lock as you will, it is your board after all.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:51 pm

woodchip wrote:
KoolBear wrote: There's nothing that says you can discuss these items just that you must join a usergroup to do so, that way it will keep someone from inadverently finding themselves in a conversation that they really may not want to be a part of.

KB
The problem here is this is a pretty well oiled group of posters. Most of us have been posting here for years and know one another as well as people posting on the internet can. Your assertion that someone may "inadvertantly" find themselves ensnared in a inappropriate conversation fails to acknowledge that getting out of said topic is only a mouse click away. What goes on here is "posting" not "conversation". The stated purpose of E&C:

"Ethics and Commentary
For discussion of life's issues: current events, social trends and personal opinions - profound to mundane."

Tell me how one can discuss "current events" and not discuss religion or even politics. Where is politics and religion divorced from "social trends"? Personal opinions may be based on religion and/or politics when discussing any number of topics. So you see KB, even the rule definition as stated would have to include what you want to lock away.
Lock away E&C and NHB and guess where the forbidden fruit will show up. The PTMC forum might as well be locked away also. If you want the DBB to be a strictly game orientated board then you should be stripping out any forum that might lend itself to harboring discussions you do not approve of.

On a harsher note, with all due respect, you are shocked at what is being posted here...why? You make a appearance (which we enjoy) maybe once every couple of years and like Rip Van Winkle you wake up to a changed world that you can't comprehend. I suspect if you posted here on a regular basis nothing would seem that much out of the ordinary. Freedom of expression is a heady experience and I suppose that is why it is number one in our constitution. Close or lock as
you will, it is your board after all.

well said

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:11 pm

E&C has healthy discussion - it's called ETHICS AND COMMENTARY, and most of the conversations are not flame wars. When they become such, they're moderated. It's working fine. I say leave it as it is - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:18 pm

This place has been running smoothly for over a year in its current situation (ever since SickOne opened it up for political debate); I see absolutely no reason to change it. It's one of the few reasons I still visit this board.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:21 pm

Koolbear wrote:The mis-use of the forum has gone on so long that people have forgotten

Well, we had NHB for heated political/religious discussion, but at some point, someone (an admin type) decided to move such discussion to E&C. If E&C isn't the place for embarassing political/religeous discussion, should we move it back to NHB and leave E&C for whatever E&C was intended for? If E&C served some kind of family friendly purpose before, you might not want to hide it behind closed doors.

In short, where do I post my anti-Bush babble?

Or do you not want me to post it at all here on the DBB?

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:52 pm

woodchip wrote:
KoolBear wrote: There's nothing that says you can discuss these items just that you must join a usergroup to do so, that way it will keep someone from inadverently finding themselves in a conversation that they really may not want to be a part of.

KB
The problem here is this is a pretty well oiled group of posters. Most of us have been posting here for years and know one another as well as people posting on the internet can. Your assertion that someone may "inadvertantly" find themselves ensnared in a inappropriate conversation fails to acknowledge that getting out of said topic is only a mouse click away. What goes on here is "posting" not "conversation". The stated purpose of E&C:

"Ethics and Commentary
For discussion of life's issues: current events, social trends and personal opinions - profound to mundane."

Tell me how one can discuss "current events" and not discuss religion or even politics. Where is politics and religion divorced from "social trends"? Personal opinions may be based on religion and/or politics when discussing any number of topics. So you see KB, even the rule definition as stated would have to include what you want to lock away.
Lock away E&C and NHB and guess where the forbidden fruit will show up. The PTMC forum might as well be locked away also. If you want the DBB to be a strictly game orientated board then you should be stripping out any forum that might lend itself to harboring discussions you do not approve of.

On a harsher note, with all due respect, you are shocked at what is being posted here...why? You make a appearance (which we enjoy) maybe once every couple of years and like Rip Van Winkle you wake up to a changed world that you can't comprehend. I suspect if you posted here on a regular basis nothing would seem that much out of the ordinary. Freedom of expression is a heady experience and I suppose that is why it is number one in our constitution. Close or lock as you will, it is your board after all.

Never, have I agreed with woodchip so much...I need to pause and reflect some...

<3

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:05 pm

Correction wrote:1) Do nothing, allow all forums to lapse into chaos allow things to continue fine the way they are.

-----

The E&C, I recall correctly, was opened up to what it is today because it had otherwise become a dead forum where people had discussed Descent [3] ethics to the point where it had become absolutely redundant and no one wanted to do it anymore, so the decision had been made to, rather than scrap it, allow political and religious discussions. That was almost 2 or 3 years ago.

roid · Post by **roid** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:46 pm

KoolBear wrote:After reviewing the conversations in here, I am shocked ... some of these conversations really belong behind closed doors.
...
there is still conversations here that I really wouldn't want my son reading.

could you give some examples?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:06 pm

Actually, discussing current events is quite easy without going into the left/right polarization.

I can discuss abortion but not go to the pro-life/pro-choice arena. but that's as far as I will go regarding that.

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:13 pm

I see absolutely no reason for change.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:29 pm

The E&C forum is one of the things that makes the DBB unique; I've never found another forum with such intelligent and reserved discussion about religious/political issues. Those of us who have been reading/posting here on a regular basis know that, for the vast majority of the time, things run absolutely smoothly. Sure, there are a few flames here and there, but for the most part, the regulars here have gotten to know each other well enough that there's rarely any real malice behind it. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would really discourage you from making any changes to the forum. To me, the NHB is a place for crude/adult humor and stories; the types of discussions that spawn Lothar/Drakona-like uber-posts have absolutely no place there. I don't know how things were when the E&C forum was first created, but it's evolved from the original limiting scope of those rules; it's become much better than that. I see absolutely nothing embarassing about the discussion in this forum, and I honestly can't see where you'd get that sort of opinion about it; to me, it's always represented a place where people are able to talk frankly and intelligently about deep and important topics. Don't change what isn't broken, and don't mess around with the best part of the DBB.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:47 pm

The reason for change is because this forum has turned into pretty much only red vs blue. Notice that the majority of the regulars don't even post in this part of the board? I mean seriously, LOOK at this forum. 90% of it is republicans masturbating to their POV, and democrats doing the same thing. There aren't even all that many interesting topics in here anymore. When you tag on the die-hard party-liners driving others out....

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:48 pm

Thanks all for your opinions, keep them rolling in. This is why I opened the discussion.

So a version of #3

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:50 pm

Top Gun wrote:Don't change what isn't broken

Absolutely correct, along with the rest of your post.

I should also like to point out the NHB is access restricted, one has to either be an administrator or moderator of NHB or a member of the NHB access usergroup to enter the forum.

E&C has been running smoothly in it's present form for a long time. The members are pratically moderating themselves, there is no need or desire for change currently, and if there was the members would probably bring it up themselves first before the admins even knew about it.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:04 pm

I have been on this board for just over 3 years (a noob compared to some of you), and in that time I have seen the flame wars in E&C diminish significantly. I credit the mods for this. There was a time shortly after I joined when you couldn't even mention the words God or Democrat without someone getting offended and it turning personal. Overall, the mods have done a very good job of defining where the acceptable boundaries are. There have been a few people that have been banned for continually crossing those boundaries, so I think the current system is working well.

As the board and the people on it have matured, I think the ability to carry on such conversations in a civil manner has only increased.

While there have been some threads where the subject matter was not for a young audience, the language and tone in those threads were PG13 at worst.

I am a big believer of personal responsibility. As a parent, this means that I take responsibility for what my child reads on the web. I expect other parents to do the same. If there is subject matter being discussed on the DBB that they object to, then they shouldnâ??t let their child read the DBB.

If what you are trying to avoid is a declining user base due to questionable or unsuitable topics then putting E&C and NHB where only those people in a certain user groups can gain access to them may be the way to go. If what you are concerned about is volatile or controversial topics starting flame wars, then I think your fears arenâ??t well founded.

We are all human and as such, we let our emotions get the best of us at times. Overall however, I think the folks on this board are quite capable of acting like adults and keeping the flame wars to a bare minimum.

I would vote for keeping it just the way it is.

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:02 pm

KoolBear wrote:So a version of #3

Add a poll to this thread by editing your first post. Have there be three poll options: "Option 1", "Option 2", "Option 3". I'm interested in seeing what the outcome of the vote by The People of the DescentBB is.

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:19 pm

No change, things are fine the way they are as long as moderators do their job: MODERATE. Closing flaming topics, moving heated/racy topics to NHB, ect. Its been working fine for a very long time.

After reviewing the conversations in here, I am shocked ... some of these conversations really belong behind closed doors.
...
there is still conversations here that I really wouldn't want my son reading.

Which ones?!? Did someone talk dirty or something? If someone is really out of line or using vulgar language then the moderators should be doing their job. I mean if you are going to lock a forum up because of people potentially finding themselves in a conversation just because they dont want to be in then why not put a big ol' password on the whole BB? You cant protect people from themselves. What's that disclamer for when you sign up for an account that you have to be 13 years of age or older or else get a signed parental permission to use these forums? Doesn't that mean anything?

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:20 pm

Skyalmian wrote:
KoolBear wrote:So a version of #3
Add a poll to this thread by editing your first post. Have there be three poll options: "Option 1", "Option 2", "Option 3". I'm interested in seeing what the outcome of the vote by The People of the DescentBB is.

Maybe I'll do that but I think after hering everyones comment a #4 should be added

It seems like there are three choices...

1) Do nothing, allow all forums to lapse into chaos

2) Clean House tough moderation on the E&C move all P&R threads into the NHB (NHB'rs would hate this one)

3) Create a new category titled...
Adult Discussion Forums
nest the NHB under it
and move the E&C under it
lock'um them down to specific user groups.

4) Create a new category titled...
Adult Discussion Forums
nest the NHB under it
and move the E&C under it leave NHB locked and E&C open

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:22 pm

#4 is by far the least damaging.

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:23 pm

The organizational nutcase in me would vote for Option 4, then.

Still, add the poll. Those that haven't made their posts here will undoubtedly vote in the poll, meaning far more responses. Either #1 or #4 would win with the most votes. Don't forget to do "Add Option" for the fourth option, otherwise the poll will just display three.

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:26 pm

Wow, 3 consecutive posts after mine, barely 1 min apart. Thats crazy.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:29 pm

I'm going to agree with woodchip here.

I'm a bit confused as to exactly what kind of material you wish to be discussed in "Ethics and Commentary" if we are to avoid politics and religion. And it does seem to me that anyone who browses an "Ethics and Commentary" forum should hardly be surprised if they find within political commentary and discussions about ethics.

Second point, I'm confused about exactly why you wish to limit the Ethics forum to 16+. Is it because of the occasional poster getting out of hand and flaming? Foul language and even violent personal attacks are certainly something I can understand wishing to keep kids away from. I prefer to avoid them myself. But if this were the problem, it seems that simply moderating the offending messages and posters would be the solution.

If, on the other hand, you are saying we need to keep kids away from serious discussions about politics and important ethical issues, then I will have to disagree. How else are they to learn how to think and learn? If our children are never exposed to others ideas, they will never learn how to form a solid philisophical foundation of their own, how to defend it, and how to realize when someone else is right and CHANGE it.

But, again, to quote woodchip:

Woodchip wrote:Close or lock as you will, it is your board after all.

And I thank you very much for having let me participate in it.

Kilarin

Cuda68-2 · Post by **Cuda68-2** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:45 pm

I don't join in on many topics here but I enjoy reading the different views as it adds to my knowledge of a subject and gives me other view points to consider.
While I think the conversations on this board are moderate and 2 sided in these area's, along with well behaved I also agree that I would not like my child reading them until I read them first to approve the content.
So option 3 is my vote.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:53 pm

So option #4 is basically how it is now, but with an "Adult" warning label?

Rules and Reg's What are they for ...

CORRECTED POLL

Rules and Reg's What are they for ...

Re: Rules and Reg's What are they for ...