Assault Weapons Ban

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:49 pm

You'll have to go here:

http://www.fragwerkz.com/dbb/viewforum.php?f=2

...to respond. Sting-ray was feeling lonely over there so I had to post something he can ride herd on.

bash · Post by **bash** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:06 pm

Sorry, I'm not a member of that bbs.

Also, not being a gun person I have little information about what you're talking about. Link?

Sting_Ray · Post by **Sting_Ray** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:12 pm

Talk about crossposting. Gawd bro.

I don't think I've checked that other site in days.

Good luck with this one =)

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:32 am

I'm not sure as to how much the law affects pistols. It's more in tune with rifles. Experation date is sometime in Sept. I think.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:49 am

It might affect the magazine capacity, I don't remember which piece-of-crap bill it was that restricted them to 10 rounds.

I have a Sig226 with a 15 round mag and two 10 round spares, the law made the price of pre-ban 15 rounders triple in price over night.
If the law changes I'll buy another 15 rounder or two, my other pistols don't use high cap mag's anyway so no big deal right now.
I probably will start shopping for a semi-auto carbine though, just so I'll have one prior to the next wave of stupid laws.

If this H&K comes out in semi-auto configuration I just may have to jump on it...can't think of where I'll really use it pre-armageddon but it's too sweet to pass on if the price is right.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:00 pm

Will, how 2nd ammendment of you.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:18 pm

Nice carbine. Unfortunately if the the overall length is under ATF requirements, you or I will never be able to own one unless we go and get a class-3 license. Maybe if the assault ban dies quietly, overall length for ownership may change. What is particularly nice about your choice Will, is:

"The elimination of the gas tube typical of the Stoner AR15/M16/M4 direct gas operating system means that the HKM4 will function normally even if the weapon is fired full of water without first being drained."

While I already have a Ar-15 with a 20" barrel, I could see a shorter version with a collasable stock and shorter 16" barrel for carrying behind the seat in my truck:

http://www.bushmaster.com/le/

Repo Man · Post by **Repo Man** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:06 pm

Good heavens! What will we do with the expiration of the Feinstein assault weapons ban? Our cities will return to anarchy and lawlessness!

Bayonet lugs will again be installed on these horrible weapons. I wonâ??t be able to walk down the street again without worrying about some deranged madman bayoneting me to death.

Mass killing machines like the Galil, HK-91, FN-FAL and the AR-15 with their evil flash suppressors and pistol grips will once again dominate crime statistics. The 0.1% of firearms crimes committed by these evil beasts must not be allowed to annihilate our children!

Never! Never!

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:23 pm

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by Gore=13.2
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by Bush=2.1

So many ways to spin that, I won't go there. I just want to point out that I believe it is the behavior of people that is the root of all evil not the availability of hardware.
Why the "Gore type" voters behave the way they do is open for debate but I'll bet my life it wasn't the hardware.

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:10 am

Will,

look at the states that each guy won. Gore took New York, Illinois, and California, pretty violent states. Bush takes Wyoming!! GASP!! C'mon, dumb stat.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:44 pm

Zuruck, think about it.
The stats are neither smart nor dumb, the conclusion you reached however...

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:51 pm

There are lies, damned lies, and then statistics. -Mark Twain

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:03 pm

Gun control is being able to hit your target.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:08 pm

Zuruck wrote:Will,

look at the states that each guy won. Gore took New York, Illinois, and California, pretty violent states. Bush takes Wyoming!! GASP!! C'mon, dumb stat.

Zuruck, you walked into this one. Why are those states more violent with their greater gun control laws as opposed to Wyoming where on a percentage basis more people own guns.? Get your thinking cap out.

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:41 pm

Not many people to shoot in Wyoming

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:50 am

I didn't reach a conclusion. Heavily populated areas with plenty of gang activity produce lots of crimes with guns.

Heavily Populated = California, New York, Illinois, Ohio

Is there one gang in Wyoming?? What about Idaho?

Obviously gun control isnt working because gun nuts wont let it

Palzon · Post by **Palzon** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:05 pm

"There is NO connection between having a gun and shooting someone and NOT having a gun and NOT shooting someone, and you would be a fool and communist to assert otherwise."

-Bill Hicks

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:10 pm

Well Zuruck it seems you did conclude that population is responsible for their propensity for murder...
That's certainly more logical than thinking the hardware made them do it!

I think it's not the cause though, more like high population areas have a higher concentration of stimuli that produce the murderous behavior. We need to address the stimuli ie; lower education, higher ratio of fatherless children, lack of opportunity in the job market, higher concentration of illegal drug sales and a lack of community willing to combat those stimuli.

Your equation was:
population + gang activity = gun crime

then you followed by saying:
'gun nuts won't let gun control work'

Well in those high population areas where the much higher murder rate is evident THERE IS GUN CONTROL...much more restrictive gun laws, even outright bans combined with far fewer guns per capita!

So tell me how can you back up your claim that 'gun nuts' are to blame for the behavior of the murderous people we're talking about?

You see it's really people were talking about not hardware....

bash · Post by **bash** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:50 pm

Heh, Pally, might want to fix that typo.

[EDIT] Already took care of it

-Stingy [/EDIT]

Ya know, I've thought long and hard and it's possible the author was trying to be clever by pointing out incongruities and then intentionally making one himself so maybe it isn't a typo. If so, well, he's no Samuel Clemens.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:08 pm

Ohio is the most recent state to enact relaxed CCW laws so that honest law abiding citizen may own and carry a concealed firearm. Now the question why this trend of relaxed CCW is now pre-dominant on our country. The answer quite simply is those who possess a license to carry are shown to be the safest citizens around.
Here in Michigan, over 100,000 concealed carry licenses have been issued since the new carry law went into effect and there has not been one incident where a CPL holder has made illegal use of their carry firearm. As a group, CPL holders are shown to be more law abiding and safer than even police officers.
So it is evident that citizens can carry firearms on their person and do so without shootouts at high noon occuring as some of the Brady Bunch would of had you believe. I present this viewpoint to back-up Wills statement that gun violence is more a upbringing issue and not a matter of prevelance of firearms that leads to gun crimes.
Additionally you may want to look at the latest crime statistics for England and understand that gun control does not make you safer.

On a bright note, in their lust to try and make gun manufacturers liabel for gun crimes, the gun control people succeeded in allowing the assault weapon ban to expire in Sept. Go figure.

Fusion pimp · Post by **Fusion pimp** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:50 am

The very freedom(s) that allow you to share your mis-guided opinion were won using behavior modification techniques and primitive mind altering drugs. Using guns as our history books tell us would have resulted in the evolution of the firearm to a point where the firearm would have its own ego and eventually be on par with humans. Thank God for the useful gun control laws, if it weren't for them we'd be co-habitating with those evil firearms that, at this point only posses the power to force their murderous will on us weak humans.

B-

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:27 pm

If I'm not mistaken, Canada has a far higher gun ownership per head than the USA, and still has far less gun crimes.

Think about that for a little bit.

bash · Post by **bash** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:40 pm

http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/research/o ... efault.asp

The US per capita number seems to be roughly triple that of Canada, although that Canadian site doesn't explicitly say that. You gotta stop using Michael Moore as a source, Mobi, even the liberals here realize he's a lying sack of poop.

Fusion pimp · Post by **Fusion pimp** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:59 pm

I just picked up two Ruger 17 HMR's too. Wicked little round, you should see what it does to the varmints.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:29 pm

Mobius, even if your stat were true would you say that the ratio of guns is the reason for the behavior? Why stop thinking at that point?

Maybe there is something else about canadian culture that keeps them from committing crimes like some americans are want to do.