Joke ? Not

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:04 pm

http://nanovirus.blogspot.com/2005/07/w ... bible.html

Expand it to regular size

Bettina

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:45 pm

Gives one pause eh?

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:52 pm

Good job bettina.. You're becoming what you seem to want to stop, a fanatic.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:07 pm

Woot for flaming! (really, Bet... take it easy.)

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:36 pm

it's just a joke.

Pun · Post by **Pun** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:47 pm

Ferno wrote:it's just a joke.

By definition, it is not a joke. How is it in any way funny? (even if you're not a Christian, or dont like Christians, for that matter)

I classify it as propaganda.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:53 pm

Yeah, but is it untrue?

Pun · Post by **Pun** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:56 pm

woodchip wrote:Yeah, but is it untrue?

Most propaganda is laced with truth. It wouldn't be propaganda if it wasn't.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:08 pm

punisher wrote:
Ferno wrote:it's just a joke.
By definition, it is not a joke. How is it in any way funny? (even if you're not a Christian, or dont like Christians, for that matter)

I classify it as propaganda.

I'm really sorry that I offended. I only meant it to be funny. Please close my thread.

Bettina

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:14 pm

Funny or not, it highlights two key points:

1. Those opposed to Christianity will use the same tactics as those who support it in order to further their viewpoint.

2. Adding qualifications from unqualified sources is a bad idea. Perhaps the school boards in PA and KS could have thought about that before allowing religiously-motivated groups to append qualifications to the covers of science textbooks, much like this apparent atheist has done to this bible.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:22 pm

High Court in PA threw out ID as a topic to be taught in school. Must keep current around here.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:29 pm

It's just another example of the slow march to criminalizing Christianity.

Not point a finger at you Bet. no worries.

genocide? yyeaahh....

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:33 pm

Bet51987 wrote:I'm really sorry that I offended. I only meant it to be funny. Please close my thread.

I don't see any reason the thread should be closed. Of course the "warning sticker" is going to be a little offensive to we Christians. But I CAN see the humor in it. But then, perhaps I'm not a good sample since I thought the Flying Spaghetti Monster was a hoot, and you KNOW where I stand on the ID issue.

Seriously though, lets assume that it wasn't the least bit funny, as I'm certain it wasn't to many. Conservative Christians don't mind dealing it out, we should be able to take some of the same medicine back. Just try not to get offended when WE post something that WE think is funny...

Kilarin

Money! · Post by **Money!** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:32 pm

Do you guys actually care or are you just saying that because you are Christian? Some of the people here that I've seen take jokes in the past aren't liking this one... even thought it seems to be an obvious joke... does that mean if they didn't care and thought it was funny then they'd be less Christian? I could care less about Jew jokes... but does that make me less of a Jew because I'm not offended? I don't think so, and in my opinion, neither should you.

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:35 pm

Behemoth wrote:Good job bettina.. You're becoming what you seem to want to stop, a fanatic.

X2. I declare this thread dead in the name of Petoria.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:43 pm

punisher wrote:
Ferno wrote:it's just a joke.
By definition, it is not a joke. How is it in any way funny? (even if you're not a Christian, or dont like Christians, for that matter)

I classify it as propaganda.

o_O

let's check the definition of joke, shall we?

joke
Pronunciation Key (jk)
n.

1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2. A mischievous trick; a prank.
3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
4. Informal.
1. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.
2. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.

Classify it however you want. your opinion does not not equate fact.

has the image evoked laughter? To some, it has. To others, it offended them. that's the nature of jokes.

Take any jokes about women. Most men laugh at them, but some women get offended.

Now let's look at the definition of propaganda.

prop·a·gan·da
Pronunciation Key (prp-gnd)
n.

1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.
3. Propaganda Roman Catholic Church. A division of the Roman Curia that has authority in the matter of preaching the gospel, of establishing the Church in non-Christian countries, and of administering Church missions in territories where there is no properly organized hierarchy

History shows that propaganda was used in a much more serious tone to advocate a certain message. to demonize one party and to praise another.

It seems to me that this label was placed on the bible as a prank, not as a serious method of getting a message across.

fyrephlie · Post by **fyrephlie** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:52 am

umm...

warning: well... ok let's all take that peice with a grain of salt. fiction or not is hard to say at this point, those who beleive it is the truth beleive it is the truth, those who do not, well, they do not. i don't agree on that peice myself because it can't be proven... moving on. (i do agree with the 'do not take it literally' point however)

content: yep, its all in there. much of it has even been discussed here... recently i might add.

exposure: also, accurate. even contains the caveat: 'in extreme cases' as well as the word 'may'.

bet: i laughed at it. you didn't offend people, the person who made this offended them, you upset them by showing it to them, amd oh well... i am sure you cannot count on one hand the number of times people here have upset or offended you.

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:45 am

hahah

sticker is ironicly funny because:
Such "evolution is a theory" stickers being put onto biology books was a tactic from the religious camp to use the non-religious camp's own non-discriminatory laws against itself. Those same laws then being turned against the sacred Bible itself... this would be sweet irony

A call for The Bible to be banned from classrooms (on it's vulgar content, basically all mentioned on Betinna's label) makes more sense than any other book the fanatics have called for banning from classrooms.

Pun · Post by **Pun** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:32 am

Jokes are meant to be funny, no? Explain to me what's funny about that and why that sticker would make anyone laugh, regardless of their political or moral affiliations.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:54 am

I dont see how it could be funny even if i was an atheist.

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:22 am

you're ment to find it ironic, and you're ment to find irony funny.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:41 am

really?

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:46 am

you can't see why it's ironic?

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:22 am

i find it amusing that on one side a person will do everything they can to discredit the other, and yet they dont seem to expect the other side to do the same.

also that was as much propaganda as a "evolution is just a theory" bumper sticker i wouldnt approve either, my personal beliefs do not cloud my general judgement.

Iceman · Post by **Iceman** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:27 am

Uh ... poor judgement (again) ... other phrases come to mind also.

Bet51987 wrote:I'm really sorry that I offended. I only meant it to be funny. Please close my thread.

Bettina

What? Hit and run? Post an obviously inflamatory comment and shield yourself from the return flak? I only hope the mods are mature enough to leave it open.

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:32 am

That is frickin' hilarious. You guys are so married with christ you can't even take something that offers an ironic representation of an alternate view on something you hold dear (your religion and your faith). I don't care for the bible, I wipe my ass with it. Regardless of the origins of literature, it is wrong to worship a book to the extent the bible is worshipped. Anyone could have written anything else at the appropriate moment in history and you'd have been worshipping something completely different; yet probably with the same fanatism. In fact, it has happened, since other religions have their dull and holy reading material as well.

PS: if such a warning label is appropriate for the bible, imagine what needs to be done for the koran

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:56 am

I didn't even think it was a joke, I thought finally someone figured it all out...oh well...'twas funny though.

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:56 am

Bet, if you meant this to be funny you would have posted this in the Cafe where funny and not so serious discussion takes place. Not here.

Tricord: What do you know about the bible? Or other text which has been written and preserved for thousands of years? Absolutely NOTHING. On top of that, that was a very arrogant and disrespectful way of putting it. IE flaimbait.

fyrephlie · Post by **fyrephlie** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:00 pm

angry christians (esp. those that don't understand their religion and scripture very well) are so cute with their screaming, and huffing and puffing and trying to defend something they very little about.

note kilarin (a christian extremist hehe) sees the humor in it.

note a consipiculously missing voice here too... LOTHAR WHAT SAY YOU!!!

i think you are just upset because the content advisory and exposure advisory are actually accurate.

this was done years ago at a Northwestern Book & Bible store here in the cities. Someone went in with photocopied cards that listed content of the Bible, and passages that supported it, and placed them between the pages, and taped them to the back of bibles that were for sale. Local news media actually were forced to retract a statement (in a buried article deep in the local pages) that the cards were 'lies' and such, because in fact. they were not.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:44 pm

I think it's moderately amusing. Not laugh-out-loud funny, but kind of "heh that's a nice response to the evolution-is-a-theory stickers" funny. The implementation could be a lot better, though.

The most entertaining thing is the responses from both sides. Especially the argument over whether or not it's funny, as if anyone whose sense of humor doesn't exactly match yours is some sort of moron :P I think it's somewhat funny, others think it's hilarious, and others don't see the humor in it at all. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to flame the idiots on the other side! :aceface: :aceface: :aceface:

Behemoth wrote:You're becoming what you seem to want to stop, a fanatic.

I have a friend who says she's a "recovering fundamentalist". She's a Christian, but doesn't believe in hell, thinks homosexuality is perfectly normal, thinks Paul's writings aren't very important, votes Democrat, and so on. That's definitely a slap in the face to the Fundies she grew up with in the south. But, on the other hand, she flames anyone who dares disagree with her (even good friends), spends a lot of time talking about how much better she is than the people she grew up with, gets convinced of things she wants to believe by incredibly crappy articles from lame websites, and thinks all Republicans are evil. That doesn't make her a recovering fundamentalist... that just makes her a fundamentalist for a different side.

Similarly... bettina, be careful you don't turn into exactly what you despise. There are a lot of ways in which your current behavior is just like that of the fundies you find so offensive. Spend some time thinking about that...

Also, you need to be a little slower to assume people are angry, upset, or offended. It seems like every week, you post something controversial, and when someone responds in a way you didn't expect you assume they're sitting at their keyboard with smoke coming out their ears or tears pouring down their cheeks. In perhaps the strangest turn of irony yet... IMO, the most offensive thing you've ever posted is your continual "don't get offended" and "I'm sorry you're so angry" responses. We all graduated from fourth grade a long time ago; please assume we're all mature enough not to get flaming mad over little things.

---

From a moderator perspective, I agree with Iceman. If you're going to post something that should reasonably expected to stir up trouble, don't come back and say "please close this! I didn't want to start trouble." I'll close it if people start getting really nasty or stop saying anything worthwhile, or I'll move it if the discussion wanders into NHB or Cafe land. But I won't close it just because it had some effects the original poster didn't plan for...

P.S. hi fyrephlie... I was wondering if anyone was going to ask where I was. Looks like you posted while I was writing this.

fyrephlie · Post by **fyrephlie** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:50 pm

hi lothar!

and baby makes three! ... what i consider 2 of the loudest 'Pro-Christian' voices see it as 'amusing'...

p.s. your friend is right about one thing: republicans are evil.

let's all just be friends! mmmkay!

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:20 pm

Good post lothar.

Iceman · Post by **Iceman** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:38 pm

Tricord wrote:That is frickin' hilarious. You guys are so married with christ you can't even take something that offers an ironic representation of an alternate view on something you hold dear (your religion and your faith). ...

Maybe go back and re-read the comments eh Tricord? I don't see any comments that would indicate anyone getting bent out of shape about the obvious disregard for Christianity in the joke. No, the comments are simply about Bettina exhibiting a two-faced nature ... professing to be irritated by fundamentalist Christians and then exhibiting behaviors similar to those she claims are offensive to her.

I don't see any flaming of Bettina and I don't feel that she should be flamed. She is young but growing up in many ways. I hope that she will see the value of the comments posted here and that they will have a positive effect on her personal growth.

I am a Christian and I often enjoy jokes about Christianity. If the joke were funny I would laugh ... For one reason or another I don't find it funny so I am not sitting here giggling about it. I don't find it irritating either, rather just another piece of propaganda used by those that dislike Christians to try to cut us down a few notches. I am pretty much used to that and, like most Christians with a healthy self esteem, I just take it in stride. If I got irritated every time someone made a snide comment about Christianity, I would never have any peace in my life.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:36 pm

punisher wrote:Jokes are meant to be funny, no? Explain to me what's funny about that and why that sticker would make anyone laugh, regardless of their political or moral affiliations.

Are you asking me to define people's perception about some things and not others?

It makes a certain group of people laugh, much like a bumper sticker from 'moveon.org' makes people laugh.

Let me ask you this. Would you laugh at a sticker that was placed on the Qu'ran claiming it was a fable?

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:19 pm

punisher wrote:Jokes are meant to be funny, no? Explain to me what's funny about that and why that sticker would make anyone laugh, regardless of their political or moral affiliations.

Its all a matter of prespective. You find some things funny, while others may not. This thread is a prime example of this.

You can easily apply this logic to just about anything. For the sake of this post, lets apply it to a movie blooper. I may find it funny as hell, but it may only draw a "meh" from you, or vice versa. Works the same way with that picture. Hell, take a look at the "owned" video someone posted in the NHB. A couple people were clearly offended by that video while the rest of us just laughed.

And last I checked, your sense of humor (or lack there-of) does not constitute the whole.

I do agree with Top Wop though, this should have been posted in the Cafe instead.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:02 pm

Ferno wrote: Let me ask you this. Would you laugh at a sticker that was placed on the Qu'ran claiming it was a fable?

Actually, No.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:05 pm

MD-2389 wrote: Its all a matter of prespective. You find some things funny, while others may not. This thread is a prime example of this.

Some people could find the gladiator's and the whole spectacle surrounding that amusing or funny as well back in those times, it does not however make it right..

Not that it really matters, because most people on a conservative christian side will use the same tactics.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:50 pm

Please close this...it wasn't meant to offend and it clearly has. Please?

Bettina

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:57 pm

Top Wop wrote:Tricord: What do you know about the bible? Or other text which has been written and preserved for thousands of years? Absolutely NOTHING. On top of that, that was a very arrogant and disrespectful way of putting it. IE flaimbait.

Maybe so, I like to stir things up. However, in what way is the content of the bible any different than, say, the works of ancient greek philosophers? It is also thousands of years old. It actually holds more truth than the bible, and is more robust to interprete. What is special about the bible, except the things you've been told all your life? What value does the bible hold over other works in a non-religious context?

The answer is: none. The bible has some historical value, though. But so have many other works from the same era. I have learned to appreciate that value through 12 years of education in a Jezuit school. I have also learned that the bible holds nothing more of intrest for me, and I feel free to propagate that point.

Bottom line: if you don't think it's funny (or if you can't imagine it being funny to other people), realign your point of view on the world because hey, this is the 21st century! Even Lothar discerned the humor; if he can, anyone can.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:37 pm

Tricord wrote:What value does the bible hold over other works in a non-religious context?

I don't think christians "worship" the bible, they worship god and unlike the works of greek philosophers the bible would then hold a significantly more important place in their hearts. Do you ignore that distinction and equate the bible to other books in order to frame their reaction to the joke/insult as one that is reactionary?

You seem to be ascribing your own perspective of non-belief to them, and then asking why they are unhappy with the joke/insult.
You would be better served by looking at it from their perspective and then judge what the proper reaction should be for a believer....

With that in mind you might see that the believers in this thread have behaved much more graciously than one who would offer to wipe his ass with something that is important to his friends.