Bush Bashing

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:45 am

It'll be called "Bush Bashing" but i liked reading this

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/ame ... ory=482947

George W Bush and the real state of the Union
Today the President gives his annual address. As the election battle begins, how does his first term add up?
20 January 2004
Drama as Kerry emerges as big winner in Iowa

Bush takes the moral high ground as rivals slug it out

George W Bush and the real state of the Union

Leading article: George Bush has presided over a vast catalogue of failure and division

232: Number of American combat deaths in Iraq between May 2003 and January 2004

501: Number of American servicemen to die in Iraq from the beginning of the war - so far

0: Number of American combat deaths in Germany after the Nazi surrender to the Allies in May 1945

0: Number of coffins of dead soldiers returning home from Iraq that the Bush administration has allowed to be photographed

0: Number of funerals or memorials that President Bush has attended for soldiers killed in Iraq

100: Number of fund-raisers attended by Bush or Vice-President Dick Cheney in 2003

13: Number of meetings between Bush and Tony Blair since he became President

10 million: Estimated number of people worldwide who took to the streets in opposition to the invasion of Iraq, setting an all-time record for simultaneous protest

2: Number of nations that Bush has attacked and taken over since coming into the White House

9.2: Average number of American soldiers wounded in Iraq each day since the invasion in March last year

1.6: Average number of American soldiers killed in Iraq per day since hostilities began

16,000: Approximate number of Iraqis killed since the start of war

10,000: Approximate number of Iraqi cililians killed since the beginning of the conflict

$100 billion: Estimated cost of the war in Iraq to American citizens by the end of 2003

$13 billion: Amount other countries have committed towards rebuilding Iraq (much of it in loans) as of 24 October

36%: Increase in the number of desertions from the US army since 1999

92%: Percentage of Iraq's urban areas that had access to drinkable water a year ago

60%: Percentage of Iraq's urban areas that have access to drinkable water today

32%: Percentage of the bombs dropped on Iraq this year that were not precision-guided

1983: The year in which Donald Rumsfeld gave Saddam Hussein a pair of golden spurs

45%: Percentage of Americans who believed in early March 2003 that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 11 September attacks on the US

$127 billion: Amount of US budget surplus in the year that Bush became President in 2001

$374 billion: Amount of US budget deficit in the fiscal year for 2003

1st: This year's deficit is on course to be the biggest in United States history

$1.58 billion: Average amount by which the US national debt increases each day

$23,920: Amount of each US citizen's share of the national debt as of 19 January 2004

1st: The record for the most bankruptcies filed in a single year (1.57 million) was set in 2002

10: Number of solo press conferences that Bush has held since beginning his term. His father had managed 61 at this point in his administration, and Bill Clinton 33

1st: Rank of the US worldwide in terms of greenhouse gas emissions per capita

$113 million: Total sum raised by the Bush-Cheney 2000 campaign, setting a record in American electoral history

$130 million: Amount raised for Bush's re-election campaign so far

$200m: Amount that the Bush-Cheney campaign is expected to raise in 2004

$40m: Amount that Howard Dean, the top fund-raiser among the nine Democratic presidential hopefuls, amassed in 2003

28: Number of days holiday that Bush took last August, the second longest holiday of any president in US history (Recordholder: Richard Nixon)

13: Number of vacation days the average American worker receives each year

3: Number of children convicted of capital offences executed in the US in 2002. America is only country openly to acknowledge executing children

1st: As Governor of Texas, George Bush executed more prisoners (152) than any governor in modern US history

2.4 million: Number of Americans who have lost their jobs during the three years of the Bush administration

221,000: Number of jobs per month created since Bush's tax cuts took effect. He promised the measure would add 306,000

1,000: Number of new jobs created in the entire country in December. Analysts had expected a gain of 130,000

1st: This administration is on its way to becoming the first since 1929 (Herbert Hoover) to preside over an overall loss of jobs during its complete term in office

9 million: Number of US workers unemployed in September 2003

80%: Percentage of the Iraqi workforce now unemployed

55%: Percentage of the Iraqi workforce unemployed before the war

43.6 million: Number of Americans without health insurance in 2002

130: Number of countries (out of total of 191 recognised by the United Nations) with an American military presence

40%: Percentage of the world's military spending for which the US is responsible

$10.9 million: Average wealth of the members of Bush's original 16-person cabinet

88%: Percentage of American citizens who will save less than $100 on their 2006 federal taxes as a result of 2003 cut in capital gains and dividends taxes

$42,000: Average savings members of Bush's cabinet are expected to enjoy this year as a result in the cuts in capital gains and dividends taxes

$42,228: Median household income in the US in 2001

$116,000: Amount Vice-President Cheney is expected to save each year in taxes

44%: Percentage of Americans who believe the President's economic growth plan will mostly benefit the wealthy

700: Number of people from around the world the US has incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba

1st: George W Bush became the first American president to ignore the Geneva Conventions by refusing to allow inspectors access to US-held prisoners of war

+6%: Percentage change since 2001 in the number of US families in poverty

1951: Last year in which a quarterly rise in US military spending was greater than the one the previous spring

54%: Percentage of US citizens who believe Bush was legitimately elected to his post

1st: First president to execute a federal prisoner in the past 40 years. Executions are typically ordered by separate states and not at federal level

9: Number of members of Bush's defence policy board who also sit on the corporate board of, or advise, at least one defence contractor

35: Number of countries to which US has suspended military assistance after they failed to sign agreements giving Americans immunity from prosecution before the International Criminal Court

$300 million: Amount cut from the federal programme that provides subsidies to poor families so they can heat their homes

$1 billion: Amount of new US military aid promised Israel in April 2003 to offset the "burdens" of the US war on Iraq

58 million: Number of acres of public lands Bush has opened to road building, logging and drilling

200: Number of public-health and environmental laws Bush has attempted to downgrade or weaken

29,000: Number of American troops - which is close to the total of a whole army division - to have either been killed, wounded, injured or become so ill as to require evacuation from Iraq, according to the Pentagon

90%: Percentage of American citizens who said they approved of the way George Bush was handling his job as president when asked on 26 September, 2001

53%: Percentage of American citizens who approved of the way Bush was handling his job as president when asked on 16 January, 2004

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:53 am

Can't wait to see an oil derrick every ten miles.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:12 am

Forgot one other small number Birdy:

0 terrorist attacks on american soil since 9/11.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:21 am

2: Number of world trade center towers destroyed by terrorists under Bush's administration.
0: Number of world trade center towers destroyed by terrorists under any other president's administration.

bash · Post by **bash** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:19 am

I'm calling bs on the number of Iraqi civilians killed. Yep, you're right, Birds, it's Bush bashing and probably half of those are complete fabrications (but, frankly, I don't care enough to do the research to debunk them.) I love the presentation...

Mundane fact.
Mundane fact.
Mundane fact.
Over the top lie presented as mundane fact.
Mundane fact.
etc.

Look at things like number of precision bombs this year. The year isn't three weeks old and I'm not aware of any bombing campaign. How the hell does the Independent know what each type of bomb has been? For all we know only three bombs were dropped this year and one was dumb. So instead of saying *3: The number of bombs dropped this year*, it's presented more emotionally as *32%: Number of non-precision bombs dropped this year*. Like we're just tossing dumb bombs around, left and right. Bias? What bias?

Sheesh, Ferno, after everything that's transpired you still think this is about oil?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:24 am

Sorry Suncho, you too missed one:

3: the number of time Sudan tried to give Osama to the U.S.
3: the number of times Clinton refused

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Forgot one other small number Birdy:
0 terrorist attacks on american soil since 9/11.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would they when we are sending Americans to them?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:27 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Birdseye:
2: Number of nations that Bush has attacked and taken over since coming into the White House<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm kind of proud of that one myself and if he can add Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran to the list he might just achieve divine ascension!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:11 am

Will...add California to your list and we'll be golden

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:46 am

Bash, I was just poking fun. I think your kneejerk reactions are getting the better of you.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:14 pm

Sure, I didn't agree with all the facts listed, but at least half are true.

Easier though for you to just ignore them all when you read a few bad lines.
I'll select a few:

$127 billion: Amount of US budget surplus in the year that Bush became President in 2001

$374 billion: Amount of US budget deficit in the fiscal year for 2003

1st: This year's deficit is on course to be the biggest in United States history

$1.58 billion: Average amount by which the US national debt increases each day

$23,920: Amount of each US citizen's share of the national debt as of 19 January 2004

10: Number of solo press conferences that Bush has held since beginning his term. His father had managed 61 at this point in his administration, and Bill Clinton 33

1st: Rank of the US worldwide in terms of greenhouse gas emissions per capita

1st: George W Bush became the first American president to ignore the Geneva Conventions by refusing to allow inspectors access to US-held prisoners of war

88%: Percentage of American citizens who will save less than $100 on their 2006 federal taxes as a result of 2003 cut in capital gains and dividends taxes

$42,000: Average savings members of Bush's cabinet are expected to enjoy this year as a result in the cuts in capital gains and dividends taxes

$42,228: Median household income in the US in 2001

$116,000: Amount Vice-President Cheney is expected to save each year in taxes

These were really the ones that I liked. Not that their tax cuts were necessarily personally motivated, they were just stupid.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:27 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Birdseye:
10: Number of solo press conferences that Bush has held since beginning his term. His father had managed 61 at this point in his administration, and Bill Clinton 33<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

33 to 10, well Clinton did have at least three times as many members of his administration indicted or arrested so it stands to reason he'd have to do a lot more spinning in front of the camera...that blow job in the oval office had to be good for more than a few by itself.

just my goofy way of pointing out that you're comparing apples to oranges with a lot of what you offer as contrasts.

Like putting the alleged surplus that really was just a projection that never came to be up against the deficit that is...
Neither of the two are the result of Bush alone...or any president's policy alone for that matter.

Certainly there is some blame in many of those areas but to take some legit complaints and blow them out of porportion and load the list up with hypebole really just detracts from those points that are valid.

Good for a democrat pep rally but not much else.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:31 pm

No real facts (meaning supported with academic journals or something) in the post, so I'm taking this a little light hearted, not too seriously. On economics I've posted well thought out reasons why I think bush's policies blow.

I know the surplus was just projected, but part of bush's own reasoning for the cut was the surplus ;p

I'm going to make a national debt post soon... I made a great one in the space thread, but it got deleted.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:23 pm

67: Number of completely irrelevant statements in Birdseye's post.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:31 pm

Ok Dedman, I expect you to be fully engaged in my national debt debate when I post

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Birdseye:
I know the surplus was just projected, but part of bush's own reasoning for the cut was the surplus ;p<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point, I'm slippin'

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:45 pm

"$23,920: Amount of each US citizen's share of the national debt as of 19 January 2004"

Just another way of massaging the data for greater impact. Re-adjust the above figure because half of America pays no tax at all. Re-adjust further as big and small business pay a large portion of America's tax burden. Now next time you hear a liberal say how Bush's tax cut was only for the rich and big business, remember who will ultimately pay down the debt.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Birdseye:
Ok Dedman, I expect you to be fully engaged in my national debt debate when I post<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point was there was no point to that post. I don't care if all the factoids you listed are true or not. Where was that post going? And some of them like how many Iraqis are dying have nothing to do with Bush's ability as a President.

I just don't get the point. That's all.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:40 pm

Ded, like I said, I didn't agree with every point. If you didn't gain amusement from the thread, I sincerely apologize and wish you discontinue viewing it.

""$23,920: Amount of each US citizen's share of the national debt as of 19 January 2004"
Just another way of massaging the data for greater impact. Re-adjust the above figure because half of America pays no tax at all. Re-adjust further as big and small business pay a large portion of America's tax burden. Now next time you hear a liberal say how Bush's tax cut was only for the rich and big business, remember who will ultimately pay down the debt.""

What half of america pays no tax?
The figure was just a per capita figure to give perspective; don't take it beyond that.

It's kinda fun watching all the bush lovers rush in

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:58 pm

See my Clark post

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:02 pm

Come on, Woodchip, Birseye is too enlightened for a two party system.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:11 pm

Chip, I'm glad you love gay magazines, but you didn't answer my question about the half of america that doesn't pay taxes

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:40 pm

Nice numbers.

You forgot these ones though:

???: percentage of Americans who turned out to vote for President in 2000.

???: percentage of votes cast which were invalidated for whatever reason.

???: percentage (or number) of (probable democratic) voters who were legally permitted to register but were declined registration in Texas and Florida from 1998 to 2000.

???: The winning margin of votes for Bush in Florida and Texas in 2000.

XXXX Billion: the amount of money spent by Americans on presents for their cats and dogs over the Christmas period 2003.

????: Percentage of lawyers per capita compared to 1970.

????: Number of new laws which directly prevent free movement passed by the Whitehouse since 9/11

???: Number of laws passed which weakened previously strong privacy laws in the USA since 9/11.

???: Percentage of the world which held USA in high regard when Clinton left office.

???: Percentage of the world which hold the USA in high regard in January 2004.

I'm genuinely interested - if anyone has those numbers.

bash · Post by **bash** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:47 am

XX: Number of posts that will go nowhere due to having nowhere to go. Gotta love political spam.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:55 am

Bash, no, the independent wouldn't know because the military itself doesn't know until they finish inventory. It's probably an average number.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>By Birdseye:

What half of america pays no tax?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely not the blue collar grunts.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:20 am

Birdy, the half that do not pay taxes:

Children (you said average citizen,not average taxpayer)

People on welfare

People who earn money but still are under poverty threshold

Moderate wage earners who with various exemptions pay no taxes.

I suppose I could dreg up actual numbers, but you now have an idea to work from.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:04 am

woodchip, you know that average per person gets higher if you exclude all these people?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pandora:
woodchip, you know that average per person gets higher if you exclude all these people?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's his point, that really only the workers are paying the tax and, yes, they are paying even more than the stat shows.

Of course Birds will tell you that there is more than one way to pay a tax...sales tax and property tax for example, which when taken from the income of the poor becomes a much bigger burden to them than it is to the middle class and above.

And if Rican were here he'd point out that poverty itself is a tax that perpetuates itself...lack of opportunity, education, legal representation etc.

The solution though, in my opinion doesn't lie in raising taxes on wage earners but reducing government waste and even government programs. Cover the basics first and keep the budget balanced then help anyone you can afford to....

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:35 am

Careful Will, you are coming dangerously colse to making sense

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:25 pm

Will and I have always pretty much agreed on the government waste and budget-balancing. Unfortunately, he voted for bush who doesn't seem to be balancing the budget (increased the debt ceiling to a new record) or cutting out government waste.

I, on the other hand voted for a libertarian, who actually has the economics/government values will stated.

Still going to vote for a 3rd party this election will, or are you going to hedge?

I would cut taxes by paying down the debt.

Wood, pfft, I wasn't thinking of children. You're getting a little out of control with the per-capita debt figure. It was not intented to be reflective of what each person actually owes. It was a demonstrative of if it was split up evenly, what each person would owe. It's one of those things to help people grasp how much it really is owed. Sometimes numbers like 7 trillion are daunting to people.

Darkside Heartless · Post by **Darkside Heartless** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:35 pm

We shouldn't complain about wony too much, because the average American is richer than 90% of the worlds population

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:52 pm

I will probably never vote for either of the two parties again.
Just shopping for the third party with the most chance of affecting the process by gaining support.

I'm encouraging everyone who will listen to rebuke the One-Party-that disguises-itself-as-two.

index_html · Post by **index_html** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:37 pm

The solution though, in my opinion doesn't lie in raising taxes on wage earners but reducing government waste and even government programs.

Amen to that. The Republicans are really tossing a fair portion of their credibility out the window and I think it will come back to haunt them. After all the talk about small government and fiscal responsibility we've heard from the party, they act like children with unlimited monopoly money when they're in a position to walk the walk. The war costs are one thing and can be justified in my opinion, the massive increases in beauracracy and pork that many of these self-described fiscal conservatives are sticking us with is pretty disgusting. Stuff like this, from a WSJ article about the upcoming omnibus appropriations bill, really irks me:

There's $50 million for an indoor rain forest in Coralville, Iowa. (For that price we could send the whole town on a rain forest vacation.) There's $2 million for a golf awareness program in St. Augustine, Florida. The number of such earmarked federal expenditures has quintupled in the past five years to about 10,000, worth $23 billion, for 2004.

Of course, it's not fair to say this is all Bush's fault, even though he's sponsored a lot of spending. I doubt the rain forest scheme and golf awareness nonsense are his ideas. Nonetheless, the WSJ report on the increase in discretionary spending during the last 8 administrations doesn't say much for fiscal conservatism. Seems like a bad joke almost (the Reagan years being the exception).

Administration................Average annual real
(Fiscal Years)................increases in domestic
.....................................discretionary spending

Lyndon Johnson 1965-69........4.3%
Richard Nixon 1970-75............6.8%
Gerald Ford 1976-77...............8.0%
Jimmy Carter 1978-81.............2.0%
Ronald Reagan 1982-89.........-1.3%
George H.W. Bush 1990-93......4.0%
Bill Clinton 1994-2001..............2.5%
George W. Bush 2002-04..........8.2%

edit: okay, bad idea to try to make a table on here.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial ... =110004579

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:53 pm

Awesome will!
Index, great post, if you don't mind I am going to start a new thread for that article.

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:14 pm

Birds, u been smokin too much

How do great nations stay in power? Do they let a group of losers pick on em and do nothing, thus encouraging others to do the same, or does the nation kick their a$$ to prove as an example to all others who wish to do the same?

I believe in spanking my kids when they do wrong, not crawling into a corner.

When I said great nations, I was thinking of: Greeks, Romans, couple Chinese dynasties such as the Qin, the Mongols, Aztechs, etc

I back Bush 100% in all his endeavours.

Besides, who wants ghey leaders like Clinton pressing for gay right, anyhow? (sorry gay people, don't flame me)

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:38 am

JF. why are those nations no longer around?

Delkian · Post by **Delkian** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:01 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jesus Freak:
I believe in spanking my kids when they do wrong, not crawling into a corner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those are of course the only possible options.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:24 am

Ferno, because the new religions toppled them over by either forced assimilation or gradual assimilation. In essence over time the cultures no longer had a majority of any of their former traits since religion is a major structure for all civilizations and/or Nations.

Our civilization/Nation won't be around forever. Eventually something else will replace it.

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:51 am

The Romans fell because of several reasons. They weren't even Romans anymore. A large portion of the nation was from other countries like Germany. Also, nomadic invasions from groups like the huns gradually weakened the Romans.

Has anyone ever realized that the United States is becoming more and more like Rome was before it fell? There were not enough of the native Romans. They did not have kids, they did not need to. The immigration overwhelmed them. Eventually it collapsed. I fear the same for the US.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:11 pm

Tyr, last time I checked it was because they got so large that they collapsed under their own weight.