This is what probably sunk the Kursk a few years ago: their own super-cavitating torpedo (called \"The Skvaal\") capable of over 100m/s underwater.
Nice to see Iran piggybacking that research, and getting the data from Russia. I wonder how much the Russians took as payment for that work? Or did the Russians just sell the Skvaal directly to Iran?
Either way - it's not a good look.
http://stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3625677a12,00.html
And these are the guys who want \"peaceful\" Nuclear Power? Yeah. Right.
Iran has super-cavitating torpedos?
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Will Robinson
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The Chinese and Russian navy capabilities, and the related missile launching systems on those ships and subs, have always seemed to be the area we were unable to counter easily.
If an islamikazi country (yes when enough radicals get in charge I can call the country that) gets some of that capability then they become very dangerous.
During the cold war we saw the Soviets, in spite of their capability, refrain from offensive strikes against the west and even when faced with losing their position as a direct threat to us by way of internal failures they didn't try to go out in a bang.
I don't see the current head whacko in Iran using the same judgement under similar circumstances.
In fact there seems to be an underlying sentiment among islamic leadership that once trouble starts, if they are losing to an infidel faction then the rest of the muslim world and all their arab brothers will join their struggle.
It's probably some misguided logic based on how the muslims from all around the region rallied to fight the Soviets in Afghanastan. I guess they're forgetting all the other times the muslims in the world have sat on their thumbs watching their brothers get slaughtered....after all, to many of them a martyr is just as good as a rescued nieghbor, in fact, sometimes more useful because once martyred they can never bite the hand that once rescued them.
I'm seriously concerned that a powerful islamikazi nation will form and fill the role once occupied by the Soviet Union.
Openly aggresive, armed to the teeth with the latest technology and unlike the Soviets completely unencumbered by logic or fear of destruction.
If I were the chinese strategy man I'd funnel lots of high tech goodies to Iran and any other place like it and sit back and watch the fun when the west had to deal with it...just like what we did to the Soviets in Afghanastan only on a much bigger and not so limited field of engagement.
Iran under it's current leadership model + high tech weapons = deep doo doo for us.
Now, am I just ill-informed, buying into some neo-con propaganda, or do I have reason to fear them? Can we afford to restrain ourselves?
If an islamikazi country (yes when enough radicals get in charge I can call the country that) gets some of that capability then they become very dangerous.
During the cold war we saw the Soviets, in spite of their capability, refrain from offensive strikes against the west and even when faced with losing their position as a direct threat to us by way of internal failures they didn't try to go out in a bang.
I don't see the current head whacko in Iran using the same judgement under similar circumstances.
In fact there seems to be an underlying sentiment among islamic leadership that once trouble starts, if they are losing to an infidel faction then the rest of the muslim world and all their arab brothers will join their struggle.
It's probably some misguided logic based on how the muslims from all around the region rallied to fight the Soviets in Afghanastan. I guess they're forgetting all the other times the muslims in the world have sat on their thumbs watching their brothers get slaughtered....after all, to many of them a martyr is just as good as a rescued nieghbor, in fact, sometimes more useful because once martyred they can never bite the hand that once rescued them.
I'm seriously concerned that a powerful islamikazi nation will form and fill the role once occupied by the Soviet Union.
Openly aggresive, armed to the teeth with the latest technology and unlike the Soviets completely unencumbered by logic or fear of destruction.
If I were the chinese strategy man I'd funnel lots of high tech goodies to Iran and any other place like it and sit back and watch the fun when the west had to deal with it...just like what we did to the Soviets in Afghanastan only on a much bigger and not so limited field of engagement.
Iran under it's current leadership model + high tech weapons = deep doo doo for us.
Now, am I just ill-informed, buying into some neo-con propaganda, or do I have reason to fear them? Can we afford to restrain ourselves?
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Blow em all up!Will Robinson wrote:The Chinese and Russian navy capabilities, and the related missile launching systems on those ships and subs, have always seemed to be the area we were unable to counter easily.
If an islamikazi country (yes when enough radicals get in charge I can call the country that) gets some of that capability then they become very dangerous.
During the cold war we saw the Soviets, in spite of their capability, refrain from offensive strikes against the west and even when faced with losing their position as a direct threat to us by way of internal failures they didn't try to go out in a bang.
I don't see the current head whacko in Iran using the same judgement under similar circumstances.
In fact there seems to be an underlying sentiment among islamic leadership that once trouble starts, if they are losing to an infidel faction then the rest of the muslim world and all their arab brothers will join their struggle.
It's probably some misguided logic based on how the muslims from all around the region rallied to fight the Soviets in Afghanastan. I guess they're forgetting all the other times the muslims in the world have sat on their thumbs watching their brothers get slaughtered....after all, to many of them a martyr is just as good as a rescued nieghbor, in fact, sometimes more useful because once martyred they can never bite the hand that once rescued them.
I'm seriously concerned that a powerful islamikazi nation will form and fill the role once occupied by the Soviet Union.
Openly aggresive, armed to the teeth with the latest technology and unlike the Soviets completely unencumbered by logic or fear of destruction.
If I were the chinese strategy man I'd funnel lots of high tech goodies to Iran and any other place like it and sit back and watch the fun when the west had to deal with it...just like what we did to the Soviets in Afghanastan only on a much bigger and not so limited field of engagement.
Iran under it's current leadership model + high tech weapons = deep doo doo for us.
Now, am I just ill-informed, buying into some neo-con propaganda, or do I have reason to fear them? Can we afford to restrain ourselves?
In all seriousness, I don't think there is any we can justify taking any action. All we can really do is try to develop good defensive weapons, and hope for the best. It's the name of the terrorist game, it's really hard to take action against the entity that is responsible, because they hide in the shadows.
I don't know that this is all that big of news, though. How exactly is something supposed to "evade" sonar- I'm sure that the U.S. sonar system are effective enough that it will not be able to just sneak up on our ships. Submarine warfare is old hat for us, so I doubt it would be something that the U.S. couldn't handle. I can believe low radar signature, but sonar is a different issue. Honestly, it smells like B.S. to me. It's just another missle... big whoop.
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TigerRaptor
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Re:
Dude.Isaac wrote:The solution
Tranzor Z! Me want me want!-
Mobius
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Sirius, deploying them is not the issue: it's a standard size torpedo!
The issue is that if it is aimed correctly, there is no dodging it. Plus, the 2nd generation \"Shkval\" (or Skvaal) has homing capabilities: while the guide wire is in place it is guided, and when the wire is cut it goes into \"target acquisition mode\" and this is almost surely what happened to the Kursk. Make no mistake, any submarine hit by a Shkval missile is going to the seabed quickly.
Traditional torpedos offer a submarine with a good sonar man, and a good captain, the chance of avoiding a hit, but taking evasive action.
Will, I agree with you that a well-armed Iran is in no one's best interest, especially not the rest of the islamic world. I pray (well, I don't. I hope!) that Iran does not try and bait the USA militarily, because you guys can NOT afford to fight another war. Especially against Iran.
The issue is that if it is aimed correctly, there is no dodging it. Plus, the 2nd generation \"Shkval\" (or Skvaal) has homing capabilities: while the guide wire is in place it is guided, and when the wire is cut it goes into \"target acquisition mode\" and this is almost surely what happened to the Kursk. Make no mistake, any submarine hit by a Shkval missile is going to the seabed quickly.
Traditional torpedos offer a submarine with a good sonar man, and a good captain, the chance of avoiding a hit, but taking evasive action.
Will, I agree with you that a well-armed Iran is in no one's best interest, especially not the rest of the islamic world. I pray (well, I don't. I hope!) that Iran does not try and bait the USA militarily, because you guys can NOT afford to fight another war. Especially against Iran.
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CUDA
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our Torpedo's are the same, you can either Wire guide them, sonar guide them, they can listen for ships screws, or they can be set to go on a hunt search pattern, and there is nothing in the water that can out run them at this time, plus the only way that any Iranian sub could locate one of our subs at least while submerged is by active sonar, just as well hang up a shoot me sign if your gonna ping with active sonar. all the Technology in the world means nothing when you dont know how to use it effectivly. the Iranians remind me of a Star Trek episode with the Packleds when they kidnapped Jordi, they think they are strong because they have new weapons but they are not. but they can start a world war just because they think they are
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Re:
Dedman wrote:Torpedos don't travel all that fast through sand do they?
LOL
lemme guess; in a knuckle brawl with any western power, the Iranian navy would last for what... a couple days, tops? Then what'll they use for a platform to launch their wonder weapon. Oh, I know, maybe they can get a couple of those old F-15's that the US sold to the Shah back up in the air. Or not.
Well if Iran does come to the plate, I want to see Stryker, Lothar, Drakona, Will, woodchip, and all the rest of the war nutjobs lining up at the draft office. I don't think it will though, the military commanders have to be telling Bush that there is no way to sustain another invasion right now. The main problem with Iraq was that there were not enough troops in the beginning, so if all troops are pulled from Iraq, it collapses and the US does not have a secure staging point for another scrap.