... it has to have an INCREDIBLE multiplayer experience. Look at the origins of counterstrike, it started just as a simple mod for half life that focused on a multiplayer feel, and offers no single player modes. I bet 2/3 of the people buying half life were just buying it to play CS :p I know I did. But legendary games (Smash Brothers, Counterstrike, DDR, Tribes, Everquest) are based around multiplayer.
Simplified training and graphics \"coolness\" aside, it HAS to have great/unique/addictive multiplayer offerings to survive in today's market. If you can think of a few simple and addictive games that could be applied to a multiplayer scenario it will make everything else just frosting. For example: Horde mode in D2 Muliplayer.
Sorry to interject, I should probably keep my piehole shut because I just joined the forums
Actually this is very true about the multiplayer experience being key. Part of what let Descent live on for so long is the multiplayer experience and the community support.
As for CS, actually when I bought Half-life 2 I bought the collectors edition because I like Half-Life and the entire time I was playing I wanted to play HALF-LIFE 2 multiplayer, except they didn't have enough time to focus on it so the instead said that Counter Strike was the multiplayer.
Much to their suprise people got very angry about this and Valve was forced to release a multiplayer add-on. Except this was not a planned move so the gameplay is massively unbalanced and is full of bugs. Long story short I actually stopped playing Half-Life 2 because of this and I know a great deal of people that not only stopped playing it but some took it back to the store.
I'm going to disagree. An awesome single player experience and an awesome multiplayer experience are equally important. While the multiplayer community is far more visible and vocal, the single player community is much larger in numbers.
Roughly 1.5 million copies of D1 and D2 were sold, but there was never more than a quarter million Descenters signed up for Kali. How were those other 1.25 million copies being used - primarily solo play.
The number of PXO accounts created was far less than D3 copies sold even though many Descenters had multiple PXO accounts. How were those other D3 copies being used - primarily solo play.
Back when I was sysoping the primary Descent area on CompuServe, the top single player add-on levels for D1 and D2 would get 50-100 times the number of downloads as the popular multiplayer add-on levels.
My one disappointment with D3 is that very few single player add-on missions were ever created - scripting single player levels was just too complicated for all but a handful of level designers to master. There weren't enough new missions being created to hold the solo community's interest. The solo players moved on to Half-Life, Deus Ex, and other games shortly after completing Retribution and Mercenary.
D3 single-player missions got held down by scripting? That should be the -least- time-consuming part of it... scripting is nothing more than the top-most level of programming, and should really take you no more than a day of full-time work for a large level...
What turned me off was primarily the fact that you had to work for weeks to finish building the level structure for a medium-sized single level. Scripting was exciting by comparison.
I should note that in the days of Descent 1/2 and Kali, multiplayer was not nearly as accessible to gamers as it is now. Although the single-player contingent is still important for many new games - especially those released to consoles - it isn't necessarily going to dominate 6-to-1 now. Since most computer users these days have Internet access, it may not even be 1-to-1.
Sirius wrote:scripting is nothing more than the top-most level of programming
With Devil and especially DMB/DMB2, one didn't need programming experience to create quality levels. You just needed a good idea and a lot of time and determination to execute it. That changed with D3.
For us \"normal\" level builders.. scripting was a big issue. I spent weeks and and hours each day getting the hang of the D3 builder and when I finally did then realized how big a job scripting was, it took all the wind out of my sails. I've never learned programming in school, that was a bit after my time.(colbat, 4tran , Qbasic and pascal where the big thing back then) If I had, I'm sure this would have been a snap. It didn't look exceedingly hard just incredably involved and tedious.
Duper, I'm the same way. My only computer experience in school was punching cards for the university's main frame. PCs hadn't even been invented and computer programming was something for a few engineering majors with slide rules hanging from their belts.
Oh, I would like to add that modifying the AI for some 200+ bots AFTER the fact is a freekin nightmare. Nothing serious.. just turning thier AI on and off when you come into range (my particular level requires it) was a huge HUGE task as you can't just do a blanket command.
Scripiting, like texturing, should be done along the way. You can wait till it's finished, but it's a daunting task to wait.
Scripting, if done right, usually takes more than one day. If you're rushing through it, chances are you'll catch some esoteric logic problem you didn't think about.
Scripting should also be an iterative process. You don't crank out the script to a level and believe your first attempt is going to be the end all. That's just not how it works. Any good level needs at least two or three revisions after the core idea before you strike gold. Suffice it to say, your level isn't going to be running on all cylinders if you always run with the first idea you come up with.
If you think scripting in D3 is bad, try scripting in HL2... nothing like having floating entities scattered around your level controlling things, especially for such a scripting-oriented experience as Half-Life.
With games being as complex as they are, that is just how things are going to have to be.
It's going to be an elite that can build levels, or orginizations. (like some of use bannding together and building levels). That's just about he only way it's going to be done.1
Oh.... and if anyone enjoys scripting.. i have a job for ya.
Duper wrote:With games being as complex as they are, that is just how things are going to have to be.
A really well designed system should allow work at different levels. At the simplest, just mapping a level and scripting a few simple events, this should not require any complex programming skills. The complex levels need to be available underneath for those who wish to add more to their levels, but any joe hoser ought to be able to make a nice map with some simple events without needing to know how to program.
Duper wrote:With games being as complex as they are, that is just how things are going to have to be.
No it isn't. Try out WarCraft III World Editor. I know that the game isn't as complex as an FPS, but you don't need to use the scripting language unless you are changing the fundamental structure of the game. For most maps, you only need to use a simple Event-Condition-Action trigger system which has everything accessed through (relatively) easy-to-access menu system. The same concept could be applied to an FPS, even a complex one.
Also, the other thing a game needs to survive is an engine code* release about 3-5 years down the road, so that the community can continue development while HighOctane focuses on other things. Bungie (pre-Microsoft) and id software are notable companies who's early games (Marathon and Doom/Quake respectively) are still played today on modern hardware using what is now an Open Source development (Aleph One and TenebraeQuake/Darkplaces/etc. respectively).
*engine code, not necessarily artwork, levels, etc. that actually make the game what it is, just the engine
That's not really economic survival, though. Engine code releases help to prolong longevity of some form, but usually not in sufficient form for the authors to make anything off it.
Sirius wrote:That's not really economic survival, though. Engine code releases help to prolong longevity of some form, but usually not in sufficient form for the authors to make anything off it.
I said 3-5 years, by then HighOctane will probably have stopped making a lot of money off of it and will have moved on. I know that it isn't economic survival, but after a few years, the game isn't making money anyways.
