Kubuntu / Ubuntu

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:24 am

A co-worker gave a copy of this to me (it's a Linux OS for those wondering) and I was wondering if there is any do's and don't with this version that I need to be aware of. We talked about it a good bit here but I thought I'd throw it out on this forum for some feedback and to see if anyone is familiar with it.

At this time I know squat about linux and thought this would be an \"easier\" was to get exposed to it rather than diving into it headlong. .. i don't have that much time.

FunkyStickman · Post by **FunkyStickman** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:06 pm

Live CDs are the best way to get into Linux, by far. You can play with it, learn something, then reboot and play Descent when you have to

And they even make several \"flavors\" using different packaging systems, i.e. portage, RPM, Debian, etc. You can also get them with different window managers (Gnome, KDE, Xfce, etc.) to see which one you like more. Great way to get into it, I wish I'd had live CDs when I got into Linux years ago...

I can't think of any \"don'ts\" because a live CD doesn't change anything on the computer unless you want it to. Just make sure to get the newest version of whichever one you use, so it has the most recent hardware support. And make sure to ask myself, Xamindar, and a few others for tips

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:30 pm

Grab the standard Ubuntu CD off of http://www.ubuntu.com. The latest version is Dapper Drake (6.06 LTS). It's a Live CD as well as an installer, so if you decide to make some room on your HD and install Ubuntu you can, without downloading anything else. Then it will automatically configure apt-get to install updates when they become available.

In all, I find that Debian and Debian-based distros, including *buntu, have the best package management. They also seem to be the gold standard for development: people target Debian and make sure their software works for it, leaving it to other distros' port managers to fix it for their distributions.

I have found that GNOME > KDE, for multiple reasons. First among them is that more applications are written for its widget toolkit (GTK+) than for KDE's (Qt) because GTK+ is free software while Qt is proprietary. KDE is also a resource hog. (If you plan on running Linux on an ancient machine -- like a Pentium II -- then look into Xubuntu, which is based on XFCE).

One site you might find indispensible is http://www.linuxquestions.org. People there are actually nice and newbie-friendly. Also the case on the official Ubuntu forums.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:02 pm

Thanks guys. MUCH appreciated. I'm just growing very weiry of MS. They've done a lot to standardize the PC, but like labor unions, they've gotten too big. Some of what they are doing / planning is a bit frightening. That and I'm an under-dog kinda guy.

FunkyStickman · Post by **FunkyStickman** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:25 pm

DCrazy's right on about Xfce. Blackbox is another good lightweight window manager. They're not as easy to use, but man, do they fly! That's the beauty of Linux, you can run it as lean or as fat as you want. (I know, you can get utilities that do the same thing with Windows... but it's still Windows)

Switching from Windows is a gradual process. Play around, ask questions, have fun!

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:49 am

If you're into risky and want to dual boot, the Ubuntu 6.06 CD includes a graphical partitioning tool to resize Windows partitions to make room for Linux ones. Since it's a gnome app, the Kubuntu 6.06 CD may or may not have an equivalent program included (not sure). Again, if you want to go this route, resizing partitions is always risky, and you should probably back up your data as if you were just going to reformat everything.

The tried-and-true way to dual boot, of course, is always to just blow away all partitions and recreate them.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:38 am

Repartitioning using the Ubuntu install CD is not risky at all. The partitioning tool uses ntfsprogs underneath, which are written to guarantee that they will not destroy your data -- in the worst case they will simply fail to modify it. The worst that can happen during the repartitioning process is that your MBR gets screwed up. Make sure you install GRUB (which the Ubuntu installer should offer, as well as create an entry for \"Other Operating Systems\" which will launch NTLDR).

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:58 am

Ubuntu 6.06 ships with gparted 0.1, which seems to have a rare bug with NTFS resizing. See here:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343757
This is fixed in gparted 0.2.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:55 pm

I tried OpenSUSE 10 on two different machines (32 and 64 bit), and it goofed up on both. Downloaded 6 GB (2x5 CDs) of stuff for this.

Now I'll try Ubuntu 6: One single CD, and hopefully working out of the box.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:27 pm

6.06 is whats I's gots.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:32 am

so far so good. I like.. ... a LOT.

except where it scrambled my screen on first bootup. ..oh kool.. a spellchecker here in the forums. That's slick.

Started up in safe mode and it's running fine now.... neeto!

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:49 am

Just for the record, did you stick with Kubuntu or are you running Ubuntu?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:24 am

Kubuntu.

It's what I started with/was given. Until I learn more, I'll stay here. I'm still learning the menus are layed out. Much different than Windows. Many of the same functions, just named differently and placed in different areas. Kinda like going into an unfamiliar grocery store for the first time.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:25 am

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:09 pm

DCrazy wrote:

um y?

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:42 pm

I'll still give you a

just for using Linux period.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:54 pm

heh! Thanks! Seriously, being clueless, I would like to know the differences even if they are miniscule.

I just d/l Ubuntu and burned them off. I got both the Desktop and the server version.

I'm not ready to intall them yet. I'm not afraid of writing code...er.. even though I don't know how...yet. So some inconvience is no biggy.

I've had a little trouble with my vid and mouse, but found a way around those alread.

Been reading HERE

nice jumpstarter.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:03 am

KDE has some major performance issues. Personally I think the GTK widget toolkit is better-written, as are most of the programs written using it. GNOME is also less bloated.

GNOME does have its downsides, however. Aside from Richard Stallman being at its ultimate helm, the GNOME developers love to split things up into tiny pieces. It takes more than five configuration files, for example, to customize GDM, the GNOME login manager.

All in all, I think you would have a better experience using GNOME over KDE. But I use FVWM myself -- I don't need the clutter of a desktop environment. Here's a screenshot of my desktop, for reference (click to biggify):

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:05 am

Ubuntu installs the gnome desktop enviroment, whereas Kubuntu installs the K desktop environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_environment

Essentially, the desktop enviroment will determine your default panel (a la Windows' taskbar), desktop, control panel, initial application suite, and stuff like that. For example, you've probably noticed that most of your preinstalled apps start with a K. Had you gone with gnome, you would have had entirely different slew of applications installed by default.

Also, both gnome and KDE plug their own widget toolkits, meaning that all of the default apps on the gnome desktop will be written for GTK, whereas the ones on the KDE desktop will be written for QT. Widget toolkits are basically used to provide a GUI, and you'll notice differences between toolkits in how the checkboxes, scrollbars, etc. look different. (The window border, however, is handled by a window manager.) There's no problem with running GTK or QT apps simultaneously, but it isn't ideal, since starting up a QT app on a default gnome desktop typically takes a while, since a whole slew of libraries otherwise unneeded have to be loaded, and vice versa for running GTK on the default KDE desktop. Also, it tends to break desktop uniformity. Unless you use a similar theme for both GTK and QT, the interfaces will look different. So you'll probably want to look for QT apps instead of GTK apps to use whenever possible, since you're using Kubuntu.

If you're looking for some insight into the gnome vs. KDE debate, I'm just going to point you here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=kde+vs.+gnome

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:39 am

well, with this in mind, I haven't really decided which side to land on yet. I like clean and fast. Eye candy is cool, but not at the cost of over-bloat. (not too much different than \"over-gold\"

)

Also compatability is an obvious concern. Not sure what to do about that other than do a lot of reading. Have you guys got the descent games to work in Linux at all? just curous. I'll probably keep a dual boot setup so that I can still play games that won't run in L.

I'll have to research my hardware, although like I said, it hasn't been a major issue thus far.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:18 am

Duper wrote:well, with this in mind, I haven't really decided which side to land on yet. I like clean and fast. Eye candy is cool, but not at the cost of over-bloat. (not too much different than "over-gold" )

Also compatability is an obvious concern. Not sure what to do about that other than do a lot of reading. Have you guys got the descent games to work in Linux at all? just curous. I'll probably keep a dual boot setup so that I can still play games that won't run in L.

I'll have to research my hardware, although like I said, it hasn't been a major issue thus far.

I personaly use Gnome. I just like the way it looks. KDE to me looks like it is made for children, like a bunch of toys. On the otherhand one of my best friends and developer loves KDE and can't stand gnome. It all depends on the person. Besides being fully gnome, I find there are a few KDE apps I can not live without; k3b and amarok.

As for Descent, Descent 3 works fine for me and I prefer to play it in Linux. I only have to play D3 from windows when I want to play a coop game because of the checksum bug. Although, D3 can be a little challenging to get working on some modern Linux distros. We also now have Descent 1 and 2 available on Linux through d2x-xl thanks to Deidle and friends. What video card do you have? In my experience the nvidia cards are the best for linux. Ati cards are also well supported but as I am finding out at the moment the drivers for them are fairly unstable to the point that I may just go out and buy an nvidia card again to replace this radeon I just got from a friend.

Neumaennl · Post by **Neumaennl** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:37 am

I just tried Kubuntu and I have to say that I was very surprised - negatively. You may call me stupid, but I was not even able to configure my DSL connection - I only found a Modem wizard. And how did they get the DVD full? There are so few applications available out of the box.

I found that SuSE sucks, too, atm I'm installing Knoppix to my HD coz Kanotix (which I'll try later on) will have a new release soon and I'll wait for that.

FunkyStickman · Post by **FunkyStickman** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:51 am

Neumaennl wrote:I just tried Kubuntu and I have to say that I was very surprised - negatively. You may call me stupid, but I was not even able to configure my DSL connection - I only found a Modem wizard. And how did they get the DVD full? There are so few applications available out of the box.

I found that SuSE sucks, too, atm I'm installing Knoppix to my HD coz Kanotix (which I'll try later on) will have a new release soon and I'll wait for that.

It all depends, and no, I don't think you're stupid. No distro is perfect right out of the box. I use Suse mainly because of the fantastic system-wide control panel it has, nothing more. I customize my installs to the point where you can't really tell what they were originally.

Shouldn't a DSL connection go straight through ethernet to the modem? What is there to configure, unless you have an internal DSL modem? (yes, they did make them, I own two)

Neumaennl · Post by **Neumaennl** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:01 am

you have to enter a username and a password for the internet connection somewhere if you have a dsl modem - if I had a router I would not have this problem and the Internet would work under Linux without much hassle

btw: Knoppix is great as Live DVD but the installer sucks - well, I guess I'll just wait for the Kanotix release

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:02 am

PPPoE sucks no matter what OS you are using.

Neumaennl · Post by **Neumaennl** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:25 am

why that? I got no problems under XP, SuSE and Knoppix

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:50 am

Shirt: Lets replicate the dial-in process for our DSL users.
Shirt B: the engineers call this PPPoE, and they don't seem too happy about it.
Shirt: Meh, screw them. We can charge a login fee!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:56 am

Neumaennl wrote:why that? I got no problems under XP, SuSE and Knoppix

When compared to my ISP or most cable outfits where you just plug in and get DHCP.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:35 am

Xam, I'm using a NVidia XFX 6600GT. Nice little card all things concidered. I found the res that it likes and all is good on that front. I had my mouse disappear once... very odd. .. OH! but now that i think about it, I think I know why.

Nuem, from what reading I've done thus far, hardware config is a hit or miss situation when it comes to Linux and the distro you use. It's still far from perfect and I'm finding a bit \"nitchy\". But it's still FREE!

I still need to play with both platforms both a good bit before I decide. Kubuntu found my connection no questions asked. I think my modem is running in bridged mode at present, no router.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:47 pm

ok.. so, to create a partition for Linus, I'll need to do a fresh install .... correct?

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:25 pm

No. gparted will take care of most of the following for you, but since it apparently has a bug that could destroy your partition, the following is how I did it, and can successfully boot between Windows and Linux at will.

Back up any really important data.
Run ntfsresize to resize your existing NTFS partition. Be SURE to read the manpage for ntfsresize before doing anything, but if for some reason ntfsresize can't safely resize the partition it will refuse to do so. You're not actually changing the partition here, just the NTFS partition's Master File Table.
Run cfdisk and resize the actual partition to the same size. Then create two new parititons in the space you've created. Make one of them around 256 megs in size and change its type to Linux swap. The other one should fill the remaining space and should automatically be marked Linux (ext2/ext3). As a general rule, you have four physical partitions available; use them. If for some reason you already have four physical partitions, feel free to create an extended partition and create two logical partitions instead. Clear the bootable flag for the Linux partiton and make sure the bootable flag is set for the NTFS partition.
Reboot into Windows and let it automatically run scandisk if it wants to. This ensures that your NTFS partition isn't corrupt.
Reboot into the Kubuntu CD and install into the Linux partition (don't let it automatically create partitions for you!). Tell it to use the swap partition you created.
Ubuntu installer should automatically create your grub.conf file so that you can choose between Ubuntu and Windows (NTLDR). If it doesn't, post here and we'll tell you how to fix it. If you're locked out of Windows and need to get back in before you can get a reply here, you can always boot from your Windows CD into the Recovery Console and run FIXMBR. That will lock you out of Linux, and you'll need to use the Ubuntu CD to re-install GRUB to the MBR.

Done and done.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:12 pm

Thanks!

It worked out well. Now, to dink around!

Oh, on another note. I found the possible/probable cause of my fragmenting hardrive. I have some bad addresses in my memory. Not sure which stick yet. :I smell an upgrade......

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:09 pm

...installing video drivers for Nvidia ..... er.. I think..

o_0

so much for point and click.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:21 pm

The reason that the NVIDIA drivers are a pain is because they're not open-sourced. Now that AMD is open-sourcing the ATi drivers, NVIDIA might be pressured to do the same with theirs (but don't hold your breath

).

It's really not that bad. Install nvidia-glx and run 'sudo nvidia-glx-config enable'. That's all I had to do for my machine with a GeForce 6800.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:42 pm

ATI and NVIDIA's drivers aren't open-sourced cause they do not want to give each other proof of their patent infringments within their drivers - normally between the two competitors, but others as well.

AMD is \"strongly considering\" open sourcing a \"functional subset\" of ATI's driver code. Don't be surprised if this doesn't happen in a way people are hoping, if it happens at all.

AMD is wondering if the legal morase would be worth it for extra PR.

All this is in response to Intel's release the driver source for their i965 drivers. Intel doesn't care about high-performance gaming - AMD payed thru the nose for a good chipset to compete with intel, and got the high-performance gaming monkey on its back as a side effect.

AMD would really be smart to spin off the high-performance gaming business of ATI, and keep the chipset business, because its got a two front war now, and nobody wants one.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:56 am

yeah.. like where's the closed in \"open GL\"?

AMD would really be smart to spin off the high-performance gaming business of ATI, and keep the chipset business, because its got a two front war now, and nobody wants one.

That's what FireGL is about. ; )

um.. ok.. how do i do this>??

IMPORTANT: You need to recompile and install the nvidia kernel module
after each kernel update.

what is \"SUSE LINUX\" linux anyways?

There is a lot assumed in those instructions. I tried the run file from a terminal but I got some error about needing to be root. >:\Let the pain begin.

(wow flashbacks of D3 Editor) 0_o

FunkyStickman · Post by **FunkyStickman** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:54 am

Duper wrote:yeah.. like where's the closed in "open GL"?

Amen.

Duper wrote:um.. ok.. how do i do this>??
IMPORTANT: You need to recompile and install the nvidia kernel module
after each kernel update.
what is "SUSE LINUX" linux anyways?

There is a lot assumed in those instructions. I tried the run file from a terminal but I got some error about needing to be root. >:Let the pain begin.

Okay, what that basically means is if you ever update your kernel, you have to re-install the nVidia driver, because it compiles a driver module specifically for that kernel and card combination. It's not that bad. You have to be in text-mode only (no X running) and yes, you do have to be root to install the driver. Type:

Code: Select all

sudo ./*run

and type in your root password if it asks you. Doesn't Ubuntu have some weird "no-root" policy? WTF is that all about?

Anyway, that should run the installer, follow the instructions, and it will install the driver and ask if you want it to modify the xorg.conf file automagically, which you can let it do unless you've got some weird X setup. When it's finished, restart X (go back into runlevel 5, type "/sbin/telinit 5") and you should be good. If it doesn't work, tell us exactly what you're doing so we can help you out.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:28 am

Thx, will do.

One other thing. I tired to drop the driver set (whatthe heckever the Nvidia run-file thing is) in the root folder, directory..still learning the lingo,plz forgive me... and it said I can't I'm not the owner.

Did I miss something when I installed Ubuntu? or have I not adjusted something yet?

p.s. I'm at work right now, I'll give full details when I get home.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:11 am

you don't need to put it in the root directory, you can run it from where it is now, but stick a sudo infront of the command.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:45 pm

FunkyStickman: the root account is locked. So instead of being able to su to it, you have to use sudo. Getting a root shell is just a matter of sudo -s.

If you really need access to the root account, you can just do sudo passwd root. To get back to the default locked root account, just do sudo passwd -l root.

Duper, I am still confused as to why you didn't just apt-get install nvidia-glx. You don't need to download the driver soure, compile a kernel module, or anything else. Just run from Konsole: \"sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx; sudo nvidia-xconfig; sudo nvidia-glx-config enable\". Done.