Nazis, Propeganda, and the Far Right War Machine

[roid]

After WW2 the American Government salvaged the weaponry of the Nazi empire. Including the propeganda specialists. Do you know what propeganda is used for? It's used for waging war on the country's own citizens. Manufacturing concent. You the citizens are the enemy and they the government are afraid of you.

I know the aove paragraph to be true, so i tried to look around online to find something more official looking - trying to find a wikipedia entry. Finding some articles like http://www.bartcop.com/nazigop.htm gave me somethign to look up. So i started pumping names into wikipedia search.
Wikipedia has no article for (1998) Blowback book, OR author Christopher Simpson. I found only a passing reference to it in the Ex-Nazi's article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Nazis
Also, when looking at the wikipedia pages of the Ex-Nazis mentioned within - they seem to have been scrubbed of all references to Nazism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen
I doth hereby suggest, that there are groups who are making it their interest to erase mentions of the links between the Nazis; The Public Relations, Advertising and Propeganda industrys; And the USA government in particular the CIA and their closely associtated far right warmongering Jingoists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoist .

It's what the PR industry does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_relations

Doesn't it make you angry that after all of this righteous fighting against the Nazis, your leaders then welcome them with open arms. Do you know why they did this?
BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ENEMY. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
Propeganda and Public Relations are used to fight wars against YOU.
You don't run your own country. Your government manipulates you to think whatever it wants you to think. Our governments are fighting wars against their own citizens, yet they call themselves democratic! They are fighting desperate wars against reality itself.

discuss (if you can)
(i'm gonna make another thread the Israelis doing this kindof PR work online - trawling forums en-mass)

[dissent]

/me gives roidy a paper bag ..

... breathe in ... breathe out ... breathe i........

Government manipulates me if I permit it. Media manipulate me if I permit it. Religions manipulate me if I permit it. Demagogues manipulate me if I permit it.

Freedom is always at risk, and will always be at risk. All that is required for evil to prevail is that good people do nothing. etc. etc.

[Flabby Chick]

Doesn't it make you angry that after all of this righteous fighting against the Nazis, your leaders then welcome them with open arms.

Lots of countries used all sorts of Nazi crap after the war Roid, some a hell of a lot worse than the stuff you talk about. Humans are phucked up...but you knew that anyway no?

[roid]

ya but i'm normally silent. I'm frustrated seeing other people banging their drums here as if it's the only one, so i'm loosing (not losing) my tounge a little.

This stuff matters! There needs to be threads about it, people talking. There are groups who wish you wouldn't talk about it, are they effecting us? Is this not an important and interesting subject?

We sit here talking about wars and religion, we follow our leaders like celebritys. \"OMG LOL Bush crashed a segway\". Misdirection!

[Flabby Chick]

Agreed! It's an interesting subject that really digs deep within the barrel of human ethics and morality. How do we all feel about gaining knowledge from Mengele and his cronies? I have to go to work though.....later.

[TIGERassault]

Here we go again; another argument starts about how a government abuses it's people, we continuously state facts for ages, and the only conclusion we can reach is that the average person is an imbecile that lives off what other people tell them. And, yet again, nobody's actually gonna do anything.

[Flabby Chick]

I think i misread roidis meaning...was i that knackered this morning?

[Lothar]

Flabby, you very well might have been. Pick your defense wisely: alcohol, or lack of sleep?

[roid]

i dunno man there's a lot to talk about in this subject. What you said is indeed one of the issues, go for it!
(i'm hardly at my faculties myself)

[Drakona]

Your initial post makes a lot of very tall, very unlikely claims, Roid.

It seems to me that nobody in the government has the power to do exactly what they want to do. I mean, look at all the various politicans trying to accomplish welfare and welfare reform and raising taxes and lowering taxes and on and on. Seems to me they only rarely succeed, even when they're in power...

Just who exactly has the power to \"wage war on the people\"? Seems to me politicians have a hard time getting anything done precisely because they're afraid of the people. Is that whole democracy thing all smoke and mirrors - are those debates in congress all delicately scripted? If so, it's an awfully elaborate production.

And where exactly is this Nazi Propaganda you speak of? Does the government control the television news? The newspapers? The blogs? Or are you talking about the \"be all that you can be\" tv commercials?

It's an awfully compelling narrative there, but I'm just having a hard time connecting it to anything concrete. I hear that you \"just know it to be true\" that \"the government\" is out to get \"the people\" with \"Nazi propaganda\". But that sure isn't what I see. When I look at the government, I see a lot of competing individuals all trying to accomplish different things and getting in each others' way. I see a pretty free (and government-critical) information-rich world, in which for any piece of possible propaganda there are ten alternate opinions. And--apart from a few loonies in southern Idaho--I don't see a whole lot of Nazis these days.

Can you be more specific?

[roid]

urgh, man i thought someone else would pick up the ball. Didn't think i'd really be introducing the whole subject from scratch. i'll have to wait until i'm more coherant if i'm to do that.

[catch22]

Roid, you have just played a role.

There are many, many activists out there. Very intelligent people that preach the same stuff you have. I respect that, help them out from time to time.

But it's frustrating to watch this process because their tatics tend to be short sighted. Much for the same reasons in your last reply. \"urgh, man i thought someone else would pick up the ball\"

Activism takes work, and a lot more of it. Sometimes we see people taking on that work load, but for success, you need many, many people taking that commitment. Few are willing. There also needs to be a degree of humilty in your goals. More and more I see examples of ego getting in the way of success.

It's frustrating, it's horrible, but it's reality.

[TIGERassault]

Activism takes work, and a lot more of it. Sometimes we see people taking on that work load, but for success, you need many, many people taking that commitment. Few are willing. There also needs to be a degree of humilty in your goals. More and more I see examples of ego getting in the way of success.

I don't think Roid is an activist; I think he's just trying to start an intelectual debate.

urgh, man i thought someone else would pick up the ball. Didn't think i'd really be introducing the whole subject from scratch. i'll have to wait until i'm more coherant if i'm to do that.

I'll see what I can do:

And where exactly is this Nazi Propaganda you speak of? Does the government control the television news? The newspapers? The blogs? Or are you talking about the "be all that you can be" tv commercials?

In speeches, mostly. It might not be as much as what the Nazis did, but the Nazis did do it.

It's an awfully compelling narrative there, but I'm just having a hard time connecting it to anything concrete. I hear that you "just know it to be true" that "the government" is out to get "the people" with "Nazi propaganda". But that sure isn't what I see. When I look at the government, I see a lot of competing individuals all trying to accomplish different things and getting in each others' way. I see a pretty free (and government-critical) information-rich world, in which for any piece of possible propaganda there are ten alternate opinions.

I'm not quite understanding what you are implying there.

When I look at the government, I see a lot of competing individuals all trying to accomplish different things and getting in each others' way.

The politicians are still each other's enemies too.

It seems to me that nobody in the government has the power to do exactly what they want to do. I mean, look at all the various politicans trying to accomplish welfare and welfare reform and raising taxes and lowering taxes and on and on. Seems to me they only rarely succeed, even when they're in power...

'Slightly persuading the public' isn't as easy to fail in as the things you listed.

Just who exactly has the power to "wage war on the people"? Seems to me politicians have a hard time getting anything done precisely because they're afraid of the people. Is that whole democracy thing all smoke and mirrors - are those debates in congress all delicately scripted? If so, it's an awfully elaborate production.

1: Just about anyone, politician or not, has the ability to wage war on people.
2: As I said before, the politicians are each other's enemies too.

Your initial post makes a lot of very tall, very unlikely claims, Roid.

'War on Terrorism' is a smaller, but simpler, propaganda message. viewtopic.php?t=10926

[Ferno]

The whole idea behind propaganda is to create a reaction. Usually to swing public opinion one way or another. It's also used to manipulate people without letting them know they're being manipulated.

If one realizes they are being played, propaganda falls flat on it's face.