Please deactivate my membership

[nsupersonic]

Please deactivate my membership, due to unhelpful comment about I was not in the right department about a query. please note that your communications will be blocked. It is a shame that people cannot be more helpful to newcomers.

[SuperSheep]

Ahhh. Diedel strikes again.

Diedel tends to be a little anal about which particular thread people post in and tends to be very quick to anger. He is not an example of the people here.

I'll take a stab at your laptop issue.

Make sure you have the most up to date version of D2X-XL

Update your video drivers to the most stable release. Sometimes, beta drivers have bugs.

Check your Device Manager for conflicts.

Try re-installing.

From D2X-XL FAQ...

The game window briefly becomes visible, then the program terminates
This usually means that either D2X-XL doesn't find the Descent 2 data, or that your graphics driver doesn't offer the features required by D2X-XL.

Course, I can not help if it is a D2X-XL issue so at some point Diedel will actually have to help, but it may go better if you submit...

* Precise description of how to reproduce the bug
* copy of d2x.ini
* copy of d2x.log (create by running D2X-XL using the -printlog command line switch)
* All relevant program settings (like smoke on/off, lightmaps on/off, hires textures on/off, gl_alttexmerge 0/1)
* level used incl. level version (D1, D2, Vertigo)
* Screen shot if helpful (max. 800x600)
* Savegame from right before the bug occurred if it cannot be easily reproduced (e.g. because you need to play for a longer stretch of time before the bug occurs)

You can find that here


Diedel...Maybe instead of a useless \"don't post here\", why not make up something like \"Please go here for bug reports\". Might help you not come off as such a dick.

[Kyouryuu]

I'd like to second SuperSheep.

[Hattrick]

heh! don't mind diedel.
Someone pissed in his cereal when he was a kid and he hasn't been able to play well with others every since.

Edited for shortness.

Lighten up diedel, not everyone is as perfect as you.

[KoolBear]

I think many of us fail to communicate well, I am the worst. Written words are so clumsy, and short comment many times can be taken out of context.

I appalud Diedel's efforts, I can't imagine how much time he has devoted to continue the D2X-XL effort. That alone in my book overshawdows most indescretions (sp?) When pointed out he usually releant and \"Steps back\"

I have learned the best way for me to not be mis-understood is to just lurk

[SuperSheep]

Read the announcements - post in proper thread.

I think Diedel's communication skills are not in question as he communicates just fine in other threads or when people pander to him, but the above line is all Diedel had to say on the Dell Dimension issue.

While not a flame, it is a curt emotionless reply that would leave me feeling that nobody really cared.

I have done projects for the D3 community for free and have always found time to reply in some helpful way. It only took me a couple minutes to find the above recommendations and I don't use D2X nor am I the author of said project. Surely, Diedel could have banged out that response in less time.

And it really doesn't matter if it is a paying job or not. Diedel does it for the community and therefore has an obligation to the community at least in some small way to at least help out. If not, then it would be By Diedel, For Diedel in which case he can feel free to shun everyone.

[Kilarin]

Diedel does it for the community and therefore has an obligation to the community at least in some small way to at least help out

When you do a project for free, you don't have any OBLIGATION to support it. It's NICE for you to, but you are not OBLIGATED to.

[Diedel]

Something to everybody bashing me here for personal, unfair und unfactual reasons.

There is a not too long and very polite announcement at the top of the D2X-XL thread welcoming newcomers and giving them precise directions where and how to post.

Unfortunately, my observation is that most newcomers give a flying f*ck about it - why bother to read a page or 1 1/2 if you can just crap your post somewhere in the middle of the forum (and have the people doing all the work there already have sort it out)?

This is rude and respectless and demonstrates a deliberate ignoring of a few simple and easy to bear rules that are meant to make everybody's life in the D2X-XL thread - including mine - easier and more agreeable.

Hattrick and Supersheep,

• If you two believe (apparently you do) that everybody can just trample into the place, ignore rules other participants abide with for our mutual benefit, and then start to throw a hissy fit when they're - admittedly very briefly - hinted to what they should have regarded right from the beginning, then the only ones here reacting anal and pissed in the cerebrum are you two.
  
  There's a structure to the D2X-XL forum, and it is there for a reason, and people who get everything for free have very little grounds to start making demands.
  
  Apparently you think everybody can do what they want even after they're told how to handle themselves at the place, and all I am allowed to do is to a$$ kiss them to the proper behaviour.
  
  I have been polite to people ignoring the rules for many months. You didn't even bother to investigate that. But there's more and more ppl coming in like that, and I am having enough of that. It is not my fault if they haven't learned how to behave at a place their new too and get some directions first.
  
  It says enough about you too that you do not address me about this by PM first if you feel concerned by it, but have to make a public flame fest out of it, and makes it look very much like this is only a welcome opportunity for you to flame me.
  
  The more I read of your crap here, SS (it is crap), the more I have to shake my head. I am not everybody's personal assistant, mommy, daddy and butler here. Supporting D2X-XL is done besides my regular family and job life. All you see is the poor little guy who was treated so nastily. Now he complains here, and you jump right in like Robin Hood, Avenger of the Poor. You totally fail to first get the entire picture and ask me about my side of the story. And you have the cheek to call my behaviour anal and suggest lack of communication skills on my side. What a dick you are. I hadn't thought that after my initial contact with you. See Hattrick, I am not perfect, or I would have known.
  
  Btw, SS, none of you here haven't seen me really angry yet. If I am telling ppl how to act in the D2X-XL forum the way I did, I am simply saving my energy.
  
  You are a man who isn't half as good as he pretends to be here, as can be clearly seen from the treatment you are giving me here.
  
  I have no obligation at all to give any support for D2X-XL, and it's appalling to me how you take my efforts for granted, and how little gratitude and support you are showing for me.
  
  Well, if that is all the respect, gratitude and support is I get for years of hard work on D2X-XL and in this forum, you two bloody trolls can go to hell, as far I am concered. You have never contributed the slightest thing to D2X-XL (oh yeah, I figured the OOF stuff myself, SS ), so you have nothing to say there, and if you need to vent some aggression or general nastiness, why don't you go on the street and attack someone there who can give you the proper response?

Bottom line:

Shame on you for what you are displaying here. You claim social perfection for yourselves, blaming me for lacking it, but fail 100% in this regard here. Go get your own act together first.

nsupersonic,

• you could have simply chosen to re-post in the proper way, instead of adding more bad behaviour to your sub-par record here already! There's nothing more obnoxious than misbehaving and starting a flame when being corrected, like you are doing here, instead of following the rules like (almost) everybody else does. If you had really wanted your account to be deleted, you'd have quietly PM'd a board admin about it.
  
  To make this very clear: I can well live w/o you, and you shall know that your behaviour is not welcome at all to me. So much more as you didn't even have a reason for your reaction, given that all you received was brief, neutral hint where to get instructions and how to post.

Koolbear,

• there's nothing you can do if people deliberately misinterpret what you say and are just malevolently looking for something against you. You know it, it has happened to you, too.

[Hattrick]

woot!
Exactly the reaction I expected from you Diedel.

You could have said to the gentleman. \"Hi, there is an answer to your post in \"Thread such and such\" and people there can help you much better than in this thread.\"
but you instead used your same rude tactless dribble that you are famous for.

At least let the new people to the board get to know everyone before being a complete penis to em.

For all the work you do to help this community, I for the life of me can't see why you would want to drive new people away with such a bad attitude and complete lack of tact in handling those types of situations.

Oh and by the way,
as far as me contributing to this community, Well other than the servers I used to run in D3's heyday, you are right.
I don't contibute much to this community.
You see, I own a farm and am kept pretty busy doing midless unimportant things like helping supply food to my community, my city, my state, my country and other countries we export to.I really don't have time to do incredibly important stuff like you have done for this huge expanding descent community so excuse me if I am bugging your highness with my \"attacks\".

and to finish.
gfy

Have a nice day!

[SuperSheep]

Wow, if you spent a 1/10th the time composing a post in regards to nsupersonic, you could have pointed him in the right direction. At least you have your priorities straight.

The issue at stake is not the fact that he "crapped" in your holy place, it's that your response was rude and not "polite" in the least. Perhaps in future dealings with others you might want to use a little tact.

There's a structure to the D2X-XL forum, and it is there for a reason, and people who get everything for free have very little grounds to start making demands.

Where did nsupersonic make a demand?

Apparently you think everybody can do what they want even after they're told how to handle themselves at the place, and all I am allowed to do is to a$$ kiss them to the proper behaviour.

When did I say that? How about responding at the very least "in kind" with the person.

It says enough about you too that you do not address me about this by PM first if you feel concerned by it, but have to make a public flame fest out of it, and makes it look very much like this is only a welcome opportunity for you to flame me.

It's not about you Diedel. It is about the new user that you have given no help who has decided to leave because of it.

The more I read of your crap here, SS (it is crap), the more I have to shake my head. I am not everybody's personal assistant, mommy, daddy and butler here. Supporting D2X-XL is done besides my regular family and job life. All you see is the poor little guy who was treated so nastily. Now he complains here, and you jump right in like Robin Hood, Avenger of the Poor. You totally fail to first get the entire picture and ask me about my side of the story. And you have the cheek to call my behaviour anal and suggest lack of communication skills on my side. What a dick you are. I hadn't thought that after my initial contact with you. See Hattrick, I am not perfect, or I would have known.

and...

Well, if that is all the respect, gratitude and support is I get for years of hard work on D2X-XL and in this forum, you two bloody trolls can go to hell, as far I am concered. You have never contributed the slightest thing to D2X-XL (oh yeah, I figured the OOF stuff myself, SS ), so you have nothing to say there, and if you need to vent some aggression or general nastiness, why don't you go on the street and attack someone there who can give you the proper response?

Wow. Where to begin. I guess my posts here were in vain and contributed nothing to your project...
OOF documentation where?
I need an up-to-date OOF description
Well, whether it helped or not, at least there was an attempt. But you're missing the point. You think you are the only one writing stuff for Descent, supporting the community, and who has a life? Perhaps you should do some research yourself and ask around about how much of my free time has been spent to help the community with such projects as AntiCheat, OOF Editor, 3dsgen, D3ImageTool while simultaneously running my own business, starting another as well as finding time to spend with my family with the couple hours I have left.

Please show me where my posts are "crap". This is the only post I have come down on you in the slightest.

But hey, feel free to drive away newcomers and sit on your self-appointed throne. Continue to berate and insult people and you'll simply get more in return.

[Diedel]

(It's funny: Everytime I am having a good time, things are working, some a$$hole comes along and tries to ruin it ... )

You are missing the point SS, and entirely so. I explained it all above, and you chose to ignore it and elegantly avoid discussing any of my points.

Sadly enough you still prefer to only see one side of the medal, because doing otherwise would force you to admit you goofed up and lose your face.

It's also interesting that further above my post was qualified as 'curt and emotionless'. Now it is already insulting. Interesting how you are trying to twist things to turn them against me.

Actually the way you are dealing with me here is deeply insulting.

The point is that this has a long story to it, which I explained. The point also is that you completely failed to do justice to both sides. The point is further that supersonic acted rude, selfish and in disregard of other people in the first place; and that he is not the first one to do so. I have to do something about that kind of behaviour, or I might sooner or later have a mess in the D2X-XL forum - a mess where I am the one who has to deal with and spend extra effort on, as I am almost exclusively doing all supportive work for D2X-XL. That is exactly why I dealt with him the way I did.

So trying to keep some order in the D2X-XL forum is \"putting myself on the throne\". You seem think you are God, don't you, able to judge the deepest motivations of my heart. I have bad news for you, Mr. \"I am morally and socially superior to you\": You are not infallible.

supersonic (and/or you in his place) demand support from me no matter how the request is presented. You believe you can force a duty to offer support for a piece of software I am maintaining and distributing totally free of charge on me. So don't play dumb here. And then I read something about an obligation.

Although you try to construe it, I did nowhere say I am the only one contributing to the Descent community. I said I contributed a lot, and you have no gratitude or respect for that, which indeed you don't. So don't try to twist my words, it's all, well, blue on black here.

You say it's not about me, it's (only - let's add that for the sake of clarity) about the new user I shied away? Alright, it's not about the guy who is continuously doing such a lot of work to offer D2X-XL for years now, it's about the guy popping in here and ignoring every good rule made for the sake of everybody here. You couldn't have displayed your complete absence of a clear and sober judgement better.

Btw, if I write 'apparently you think', is it too hard to figure that I am aiming at what your entire post expresses, even if you have not explicitly written it down? Again, don't make yourself dumber than you are.

I say it again: Your way to jump in on supersonic's request shows that you are looking for an opportunity to put me down, nothing else.

I therefore give a flying f*ck about what you think I ought to offer in the D2X-XL forum. There is nothing you have to tell me. Your opinion is worthless in my eyes, because it is totally biased, and in no way sufficiently based on facts, and hiding a personal agenda.

You are one of those people who's minds are like concrete: Totally mixed up and permanently set.

It's incredible. I am spending such a tremendous amount of my time and effort to offer D2X-XL plus DLE-XP to all Descent 2 fans, and I have to bear such infamous backstabbing.

[SuperSheep]

The point is that this has a long story to it, which I explained. The point also is that you completely failed to do justice to both sides. The point is further that supersonic acted rude, selfish and in disregard of other people in the first place; and that he is not the first one to do so. I have to do something about that kind of behaviour, or I might sooner or later have a mess in the D2X-XL forum. I mess where I am the one who has to deal with and spend extra effort on, as I am almost exclusively doing all supportive work for D2X-XL. That is exactly why I dealt with him the way I did.

Basic Configuration
Dell Dimendion 8400, Pentium 4.. 3.4ghz,PCI express graphics. ATI x800 - 256mb. memory 3GB DDR2 (pc4200)
250gb hard drive. Windows XP SP2 - all updates loaded.

After playing the introduction movie, returns to Windows XP for no apparent reason. Any help would be appreciated.

It does work on my other computer with similar Spec... but with an AGP graphics interface

Please...do show me where he was behaving rudely.

I ask again. Where is the demand?

Although you try to construe it, I did nowhere say I am the only one contributing to the Descent community. I said I contributed a lot, and you have no gratitude or respect for that, which indeed you don't. So don't try to twist my words, it's all, well, blue on black here.

Too funny. I offered help and source code to you in an effort to help your project. I do not use D2X personally so it would seem the gratitude should be coming the other way. You keep bringing up gratitude and respect. How about you having some gratitude and respect for people that take time out of their busy lives to give you a bug report so that you can make a better program? Eh?


Forums are places for the exchange of information and your forum clearly states...

Read and write D2X-XL bug reports, suggestions and general discussion here.

Yes, you have chosen to create a single thread and now further a support ticket system and that is all well and good but you have now MISSED THE POINT twice.

Why do you feel the need to be rude in the first place? It only alienates people from you and instead of them "conforming" to your rules, they leave. Bravo!

[Ferno]

\"I therefore give a flying f*ck about what you think I ought to offer in the D2X-XL forum. There is nothing you have to tell me. Your opinion is worthless in my eyes, because it is totally biased, and in no way sufficiently based on facts, and hiding a personal agenda.\"

therein lies the problem. If you don't care about what anyone else has to say, no one's going to bother talking to you. And consequently, if no one believes you will work with them, they will not use your project.

[Krom]

Diedel, the D2X-XL forum is not your personal playground. The number one reason you are getting mad at people for breaking your \"rules\" is because you and your rules are flawed, poorly written and unreasonable in the context of a forum. It is a forum, just because You failed to properly utilize it does not give you the right to be rude and chase other people out. Your rules, your forum, your project, your time, your respect, your law, your ego, you, You, YOU! Everything about this entire problem swirls and revolves perfectly around YOU! You are immovable, antisocial, impatient, lazy, arrogant, myopic and foolish.

You can not force forums work for you, they will not bend to your law or your imposed order, you can only work with forums. The D2X-XL forum is a disorganized mess of announcements and stickies that even experienced forum users can not understand. Your inflexible and harsh rules are fighting the very way forums work, the reason you are having all these problems is because YOU are not utilizing the system the way it works naturally. You can not pin the blame on newbies for not reading the rules, you can not say they are insulting you or demanding work from you because they ask for help, because when someone needs help or simply has a question, the natural thing for almost anyone to do is ask in a forum. That is how forums are supposed to work!

If you want these problems to go away you have only two options. One: Review and reshape your rules, layout and attitude to work WITH the FORUM instead of always fighting it and contorting it to something it shouldn't naturally be. Or two: Resign.

[Kyouryuu]

I know Diedel hates me already so I'm sure he won't read a thing beyond this point, but I have to say this in support of SuperSheep.

Diedel, this isn't the first time you've posted very tact, emotionless responses to people asking for honest help like nsupersonic. You did the same thing in the Descent Development thread where SnyTek asked for help with Devil. He wanted an answer pertaining to Devil, not an advertisement for DLE-XP after saying he didn't want to. Heck, I don't want to use your stuff either. It was one thing to get D2X functional again. It's another to start engineering all of this D2XW32-specific stuff that is also retroactive to previous work (e.g. I'm not thrilled that my D2 maps have oversaturated colored lighting). That, and you are incredibly fickle, arrogant, and short-tempered - not good qualities in someone supplying a tool for the community. So I'll keep my DMB2, thank you, and I'll keep my \"little\" 300-400 cube maps too.

(By the way, am I the only one who thinks it insane to build a high-poly map out of 4,372 cubes? At some point, just go to Descent 3, people!)

It's not that we haven't seen the \"other side of the medal.\" It's that we have seen it and disagree completely with you. Your niche of the forum is an absolute mess. Maybe you see the organization in having a dozen stickied threads. I don't. What I see is something very intimidating to newbies, made all the more so by your condescending attitude toward anyone who hurls criticisms your way. You were banned from other forums because of this, but for some reason they keep you on a long leash here.

You seem to be fine with the notion that you can piss on whoever you please. It's not okay. If you spent half the time writing your pissy little \"calling out everyone on the playground\" replies above, you could have spent the time to point nsupersonic in the right direction.

And don't you dare run along chastising SuperSheep, who has spent many hours helping the fledgling Descent 3 development community. He's what a tools programmer should be. He finds a need for a tool, designs and implements it, and is happy to take feedback and criticisms for it. He doesn't hold his work or experience over people's heads, like we should somehow respect him \"more\" because of it. He also doesn't go out and \"rewrite\" the game when he feels like doing it.

I'd be happy if we moved this thread over to the VIP forum to discuss it further, since it really has no place in DBB Feedback.

[Diedel]

SS,

• Well, at first I was only 'curt and emotionless'. As it suits you better, I now have been 'rude'. To make it short: I wasn't rude, and you can't read.

Hattrick,

• you stepped on my feet, insulted me, and knew my reaction in advance?
  
  I am impressed: That's more intelligence than I expected from you.

Kyo,

• it's pretty anal (to pick this up) of you guys here to make an accusation out of my posting 'emotionless'. What do you want? Flowers? I think it's a waste of time to point you to my repeated explanations why I posted like I did. You don't want good reasons, or a reasonable argument, you want to get rid of your antipathy.
  
  You think having an extra thread per bug (or maybe several, if several D2X-XL users experience the same bug and are not in the mood to search the forum for other threads of the same kind) is more of an organization than having a few stickies of the most noteworthy/important posts? You think it is easier to find them somewhere down the page, than right at its top? Dude, you don't hesitate to show your smartest side (cough) in your attempts to put me down.
  
  I already explained why I spend more time on you than on yet another noob ignoring my efforts to keep the D2X-XL forum in shape.
  
  The other things you are trying to bring up against me are pretty ridiculous.
  
  My building a 4700+ (not 4300 something ) cube D2 map? Entirely my business; and: no envy please. And look how you are seeking support for your opinion ... not quite sure whether this counts against me, huh? Need some backup, right? Oh boy.
  
  Levels oversaturated with color? Standard D2 levels have no color by themselves. If you are referring to lightmaps: That's a feature many people want, so I let them have it, even though I don't like it (for different and better reasons than you do). Who forces you to use them - or D2X-XL - anyway? Or are you going to tell me you would love to force users of your levels to play them w/o colored lighting, because *your royal highness* doesn't like it? And you accuse me of being arrogant? Who do you think you are?
  
  I didn't attack SuperSheep for his merits in the Descent community; I attacked him for his off-the-wall and unfounded attack on me. That's a difference and valid self-defense. But that right is granted to everybody here except me, obviously.
  
  I think that the level of support and acceptance of feedback users receive from me is pretty much unparalleled. Where do you get bugs fixed with a day or two (unless its a really tough nut)? Who builds virtually all suggested features into his software, if it's any feasible and makes half-way sense?
  
  Back to my 'emotionless' responses. Obviously you have never understood why I don't like you particularly much, so I am gonna tell you once more in simple words. Whenever you posted a feedback to anything I made, it was always only criticism. Not a single word like 'hey, this looks pretty well, but ...' that would have made your suggestions more ... digestable. And you accuse me of being impolite. Man, you don't even know what encouragement or a friendly word are, but you seem to think that you are the God of level designers. Talk about arrogance.
  
  You think you know why I was banned from ... where anyway? You don't. Digging in the mud, real deep, huh? You look like it.
  
  You are just the next troll in the line here - regardless of your merits and qualifications - but you get your answer anyway, because I am not gonna let you get away with your bulls just so.

Krom,

• I have to disagree. I don't think it is asked to much if people post certain things in certain - easy to find, as stickied - threads. The D2X-XL forum area has less rules than a few other forum areas, and they are brief and helpful. If I was a D2X-XL user seeking help here, I'd be glad I'd be told right away where and how to post bug reports. And it's outright brash to suggest I'd be using the D2X-XL forum as my personal playground. It was the main place for D2X-XL support for a long time, and as such profits from an appropriate structure. I am amazed none of you likes a little order. But I actually think, this is against me, and not what I am doing here. It's also very interesting that the vast majority of people can get along well with the D2X-XL rules and even with being corrected when mis-posting, but a few guys who have never had any business there have to start a fight over it. Actually this is pretty foul. You guys cannot run that forum area because it depends on my work force and engagement. So stop the hell interfering just because one noob who cannot stand being corrected whines around publicly about it. You'd rather get rid of me and D2X-XL together than set your priorities and judgement right. You'd rather sacrifice quite a part of the Descent community than bury your petty grudge against me.

I have never been treating anyone here in the way you guys are treating me other than in self-defense. Never as the starter. Quite a few of the wonderful and perfect people here have done that with me. You think you are better than I. Uh-oh. Think twice.

It's incredible. I am getting put down for posting 'curt and emotionless' replies. You guys surely have a screw loose or two.

Regarding you, I would have fared better to just ignore that guy, instead of at least giving him a chance to have his bug report processed.

Idiots.

[Kyouryuu]

You should be kicked out of moderatorship.

It's clear you can't treat anyone with basic respect, courtesy and civility.

Deru kugi wa utareru.

[Diedel]

Kyo,

• so you didn't like what I had to say about you? Well, I simply returned your courtesies and pointed out to you where you are wrong. I can very well treat other people with respect, but as you didn't do it in the first place, you shouldn't expect too much in return. No need to spread more lies.
  
  It displays your entire misery that you have nothing better to do than to utilize my moderatorship against me now, just because you cannot stand being treated like you treated me.
  
  I think you are the one who should leave this place. Or are you seriously going to tell me your post was in any way respectful, courteous and civil? It wasn't even truthful!

Just for the record:

What I did was to tell a forum noob to read the announcements and post in the proper thread. What you guys in return did was to call me arrogant, pissed in the cerebrum, anal, respectless, etc. pp.

Isn't it amazing that all these things obviously are no signs of lack of 'respect, courtesy and civility'?

Well, I can say or do what I want, you guys will never like me anyway. As little as you like the truth.

[CDN_Merlin]

Why don't you all stop using D2x-xl and stop talking to Diedel. I haven't jumped in any of these topics yet. If you hate the way he acts online in this BB, then quit responding to him. AFAIK, he is the only member left to still be working on any of the Descent games.

What have any of you done lately? I may be wrong on thjis and if I am, I'm sorry.

Here's what I suggest, if a new player comes and doens't read the rules, Diedel, you ignore them, and let the rest of the people tell him where to go and see if they say iot tactfully.

This way Diedel doesn't get hammered for being impolite and everyone else can offer the help.

These posts are becoming a soap opera here.

I'm not taking sides here just trying to make it easier on people.

[Diedel]

Merlin,

this thread is truly another bad joke cracked by DBB members with too much time and too little decency. Know what? To my knowledge, these guys don't even use D2X-XL. Maybe Kyo, but probably not regularly. There's D2X-Rebirth anyway for those who don't like D2X-XL for one reason or the other.

I had considered it way worse to ignore that guy than to tell him where to find out how to handle himself in the D2X-XL forum, but I think I will follow your advice in the future.

As there are both bug report and feature request trackers on SF.net, my presence in this place has already gotten significantly reduced anyway.

Iyaculapeera shookaleya meshetocorah yeshanatoorah.

[simX]

[FULL DISCLOSURE: I am the Mac developer of D2X-XL. I work with Diedel on fixing some of the problems that exist on the Mac side of things. I communicate with him on a regular basis. Regardless of this and my relationship to him, the following are entirely my own words.]


To Kyouryuu, Krom, Ferno, SuperSheep, et al:

When arriving at someone else's house, and having been told by your host to take off your shoes, do you really ask, \"Well who the hell made you God of this house?\" Because that's what you're doing.

For all intents and purposes, the D2X-XL forum is Diedel's personal playground. He has been granted a separate section of the forum dedicated solely to questions, bugs, and support issues with D2X-XL, a program that he's practically made single-handedly. Of course he can define the rules that he likes, and if you want to visit the D2X-XL forum, you should follow them as a guest in his part of the DescentBB. If you don't like his rules, you don't have to visit the forum.

Diedel provides an incredible amount of support to whoever uses D2X-XL, and it's his prerogative to demand a little bit of order in his side of the forum. When he says, \"Read the announcements - post in proper thread\" and locks the thread, it's entirely his power to do that. Contrary to apparent popular belief, words are just words. If you choose to read into Diedel's words that it was curt and emotionless, that is your problem. Diedel did NOT say, \"You little twit, read the damn announcements and f***ing post in the proper thread.\" THAT would be curt and emotionless. But Diedel did not say that.

I also think it's quite amusing that you guys rag on him for wielding his time and experience over your heads. He has every right to do that. He's spent years on D2X-XL, fixing bugs and dealing with issues. What experience and/or work you have done for the Descent community is not applicable to this situation, unless it's specifically on D2X-XL. You could be the president of Descent Fruitcakes Anonymous, or the president of the United States, or Vorgoth from the planet Vega, and it wouldn't make a damn difference. You are in Diedel's forum, you follow his rules. You don't like it? Go away.

It sounds like none of you have ever had to deal with technical support. It's absolutely infuriating. People post \"OMG IT DOES NOT WORK IT CRASHES!!!11oneoneelevenone11!\" and you have to constantly ask, \"Please, turn off progress bars in your d2x.ini file. Please, turn on debug mode and logging mode, and send me the d2x.log file. Please, make sure you have the descent2.hog file in the right location.\" I know I've made Diedel ask me some of these very questions. I have had my own share of technical support for my own personal software, and I know that there have been so many times that I have wanted to slap people across their virtual face because they can't be bothered to do simple little things that I have posted in the Read Me or on my website.

If you want to get help, all Diedel asks is that you follow the rules. If the bug report in question had been posted in the proper thread, Diedel would likely have helped you out regardless of whatever time it would have taken to resolve the problem. But it's entirely his prerogative to help you out or not.

If you still haven't gotten the point up until now, let me condense it down into a single sentence:

You are in Diedel's house: please take your shoes off before coming in.

[Xamindar]

What should really happen to the D2X-XL forum is:
1) block anyone from creating new threads
2) remove all threads except for the stickies and bugs
3) change section name to \"D2X-XL News and Anouncements\"

I am serious. This would solve all our problems, alienate people with questions, make Diedel happy, help squash what's left of people's care about the project, and force people who can be bothered to register for support tickets.

Take a look at that forum. It is a sad image of oppression. It looks like city 17 after the combine seizes control.

So, delete all threads beyond the ones Deidel authorizes. I am scared to post anything in that forum (Deidel, you have been a great help to me getting it working in Linux, I must have caught you on a good day)

[Kyouryuu]

Do you see the logo on top of the forum, simX? Unless it's in some random rotation, we're seeing the same one. It says \"Descent BB: The Community Forums.\"

Not Diedel's forums.

Not your forums.

The community forums.

Diedel's area of the DescentBB is run unlike any other area of the board. Three Announcements, five Stickies, and a host of locked threads all terminating with \"Read announcements, post in proper thread.\" It's a mess even to veterans of bulletin boards, and is further confusing to newbies who dare mistakenly post in it. I don't see a warning on the way in that says \"You're leaving the DBB and going to Diedel's world and will abide by his rules. Click to continue.\"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea of hosting forums here does not mean you have your own personal web space to do whatever you want with. It should operate within the boundaries of the rest of the board, not a nation unto itself. Your claim of it being \"entirely in his power\" to operate \"Diedel's house\" the way he does is either unfounded in the worst case, undefined in the best. And his work on D2X-XL does not somehow exonerate him from criticism, especially in other sections of the board beyond his own.

Not to mention the more fundamental flaw to your argument - to whit, I don't think Diedel himself even makes the claim that it's his \"house.\"

[simX]

Not to mention the more fundamental flaw to your argument - to whit, I don't think Diedel himself even makes the claim that it's his "house."

Kyouryuu: I don't really care whether or not Diedel thinks it's his house or not. That is irrelevant to my argument. As I said, my words are my own.

You point to the DescentBB logo at the top of the screen. I point to the letters "D2X-XL" that are also at the top of the screen. That means you are subject to both the rules of the DescentBB, and to the rules of the D2X-XL forum. If you post an R-rated topic in the DBB Feedback Forum, it will be moved to the "No Holds Barred" forum. Why? Because it does not follow the rules of the DBB Feedback Forum, which is explicitly for DescentBB feedback like, for example, this thread. Even though the DescentBB rules do not explicitly state the purpose of each subforum, you are still subject to the rules of that subforum!

Your complaints notwithstanding, the D2X-XL forum is his house as much as my house is my house. Yet my house exists in a community, just as the D2X-XL forum exists in the DescentBB community. My house is in a homeowner's association, and I have to follow the rules defined by the association. My house is in a city, and I have to follow rules defined by the city.

But that does not mean that I cannot make my own rules in my own house. In fact, the vast majority of the rules that people follow in my house are of my own making. Same with the D2X-XL forum.

Please note the "for all intents and purposes" phrase. Of course I'm not saying that he can attach profanity to all of the threads. And I'm not saying that he can add links to porn or spyware sites either. But Diedel does not do this.

Please show me where in the DescentBB rules it says that Diedel cannot lock threads that aren't posted in the proper location as defined by the rules that Diedel has set out. Please show me where in the DescentBB rules it says that he cannot say the words "Read the announcements - post in proper thread". Please show me where in the DescentBB rules it says that Diedel has to help every damn person who comes into his forum. Please show me where in the DescentBB rules it says that Diedel is obligated to point everyone in the right direction. Please show me where in the DescentBB rules it says that he cannot define his own rules within the confines of the D2X-XL forum. Oh, let's see, there it is! "Diedel, a moderator of the D2X-XL forum, must bow down to all those -- including non-moderators -- who think they are entitled to whine after failing to follow the rules of the D2X-XL forum." NOT.

You're dictating your own rules on the D2X-XL forum, and you're not in charge of it! And if that's so, you are as bad as you say Diedel is.

You say that my claim of it being "entirely in his power" to operate the forum the way he feels is at best "undefined". That's patently false. There are rules governing the whole DescentBB, and there are rules governing only the D2X-XL forum. Again, please show me where Diedel is violating any of the DescentBB rules. If you cannot, then you should not be complaining. Diedel is a moderator of the D2X-XL forum, whether or not you whine about it.

[Lothar]

For all intents and purposes, the D2X-XL forum is Diedel's personal playground.

A playground which has been granted to him by the staff here on this board, those who pay for this board, and the community in general. It is only HIS insofar as his actions remain within reason.

Right now, the rules in that forum simply don't make sense. Newbies are used to being able to come in to a forum, post a question, and be pointed to the answer. They shouldn't be expected to read more than one announcement thread, or to only post at the end of 30-page threads most of which don't relate to their specific question. This is a forum, not a blog. Furthermore, when newbies make mistakes, they should be afforded some leeway or at least some common courtesy. \"I've answered your question in the bug thread (link to post)\" is a much more reasonable response than \"wrong thread. Read the announcements.\"

[simX]

Right now, the rules in that forum simply don't make sense.

To you. But for a person who has to manage a project, requiring all bugs to be centralized into one thread is perfectly reasonable. That way, Diedel does not have to sift through all the other posts to find a bug report that he is searching for. (This is also why bug reports have been moved to the D2X-XL SourceForge site because it has a section dedicated to bugs, and he doesn't have to sift through other forum posts -- or whining, for that matter. )

Newbies are used to being able to come in to a forum, post a question, and be pointed to the answer.

No, newbies, by definition, are newbies. That means rules that they "expect" from somewhere else do not apply. If someone from the Something Awful forums comes here, is their expectation of what goes on in the forum acceptable to you? Because I'd bet they have a different definition of what constitutes "reasonable". (Just browse the site.) That is why there are rules that are spelled out, and Diedel has not (to my knowledge) violated any of the DescentBB forum rules.

They shouldn't be expected to read more than one announcement thread, or to only post at the end of 30-page threads most of which don't relate to their specific question. This is a forum, not a blog.

Again, this is you imposing rules on a forum over which you do not have jurisdiction. The D2X-XL forum is a support forum for D2X-XL. Diedel single-handedly created D2X-XL, and since it is a support forum for his project, it is entirely reasonable to expect that he should be able to make the rules. The D2X-XL forum is still a forum despite the rules Diedel has imposed.

Furthermore, when newbies make mistakes, they should be afforded some leeway or at least some common courtesy. "I've answered your question in the bug thread (link to post)" is a much more reasonable response than "wrong thread. Read the announcements."

How is "wrong thread. Read the announcements," unreasonable? It states quite clearly what was done wrong (posted in the wrong thread), and how to rectify the problem (read the announcements). If Diedel does not want to take the extra minute to link each newbie to the correct thread, that is his prerogative. One minute for every newbie adds up to days over the years, days that Diedel should not have to waste if he does not want to.

Any "curtishness" or "emotionlessness" that you read into a post like that is you projecting your perception onto Diedel's words. Because you have no other cues (like facial expressions or tone of voice) to go by on a forum, you should take the words at face value: in this case, a description of the problem and the solution.

[Grendel]

IMVHO nsupersonic overreacted. The \"NEWCOMERS READ THIS BEFORE POSTING!!!\" thread is very visible. Not having a \"please\" in the reason for a closure may seem harsh, but tolerable IMO. I don't really see a serious reason why there's a need for all that head bashing here..

Keep in mind that english isn't Diedels native language (nor mine) -- even after living in the US for 6 years I've sometimes problems gauging the seriouseness of some statements. It's easy to get rubbed the wrong way by something that wasn't ment serious in the 1st place (I keep my mouth shut if I'm not sure tho .) Same is true the other way 'round -- I have offended people by saying things that are simply retranslated into english that would be normal in my \"native\" setting (if that makes sense..)

[Diedel]

Lothar,

• I have no time and no energy left to post a lengthy reply to each noob stomping into the forum like he is alone in the world, disregarding a brief instruction thread which is already there to help him. He got what he needed to find his way through the forum.
  
  I can also see no big difference between appending an error message to 30 page thread, than to create a new one - other then creating more work for me.
  
  Finally most other forums - particularly the support geared ones - have similar rules to mine, most significantly longer, and noobs disregarding them usually do not get all that much of a nice treatment (actually they're treated pretty impolite), because from a person capable to read and write and browse a forum it can be expected that he or she takes the time to get oriented and stick to that place's standards.
  
  If it had been possible, I had made the NEWCOMERS READ THIS FIRST thread title stand out in bold red letters, but all I could do is make it uppercase.
  
  Finally I have to agree with simX that you just cannot judge whether the D2X-XL forum rules make sense or not, since you don't ever seem to have offered expansive software support. I am in the software engineering business for 20 years now and I am a very structured person, which helps me to cope with all the stuff I am having going, and I need to have some structure in the main place of D2X-XL support too.
  
  Sadly enough, I have to conclude that you seem to be just the next guy here trying to find something against me.

Kyo,

• Stop posting this bollox about the D2X-XL forum! You have posted more than your share of crap here already!
  
  The D2X-XL forum is not a forum area like the others, because it is dedicated specifically to support of some software (D2X-XL). This is aided by keeping a certain structure. If you would have bothered to look at a bug tracker system just once, you would have immediately noticed that I tried to get a similar structure as far as that is possible with a forum.
  
  Next, the D2X-XL is not cluttered with stickies and announcements. It's a few important threads, and stickying them means they are easy to find, no less.
  
  Listen, dude, if your brain cannot cope with more than one announcement and one sticky at a time, don't blame me for such a short coming.
  
  I outlined all this before, but you just stubbornly insist on your retarded point of view that having a mess of bug reports is more of a structure than having a few stickied threads.
  
  I tell you what, boy: You are mad at me because I tore your first post to pieces, where you trampled in here and gave me a full salvo of flames. You are making yourself an outright idiot with your continued posting of rubbish.

I said it already: You guys are making yourself advocats of an overreacting noob who could have well chosen to follow the instructions he had received and get the support he needed. But you don't hesitate to totally disregard and bash a person who is working his ass off to provide the Descent community with a working and well maintained and supported D2 program for years now.

It is very clear to me that your engagement for the noob is only a pretense and a welcome opportunity to attack someone you hate.

Fortunately I can tell nsupersonic that you are not examples of the people of the DescentBB.net.

[Sirius]

\"...the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...\"

...honestly, even if you don't like the way Diedel acts, you should know how he acts by now... it's not that difficult to understand him.

[Diedel]

Please deactivate my membership, due to unhelpful comment about I was not in the right department about a query. please note that your communications will be blocked. It is a shame that people cannot be more helpful to newcomers.

• It's a shame that you cannot be bothered to read the instructions at the top of the forum clearly explaining how to get help!
  
  It's a shame that you believe you can just come into the place and post wherever you like, regardless of how much extra work that is for other people!
  
  It's a shame that you even lack the decency to silently disappear if you chose to leave, but have to publicly whine about it, blocking every way to discuss the issue!
  
  The world doesn't revolve around your little problems and your touchy personality, to make that very clear. I wish you to get many more feedbacks like this one, until you have learned the valuable lesson of how to behave in public places.

Sirius

• I think I did the right thing, and I have good arguments for them. For me, the D2X-XL forum is a work place, nothing more, nothing less. OMG, I have already stopped visiting any other DBB.net forums, and now the trolls start pouring into the one made for me to work in. Tsk.
  
  If I wouldn't have wanted to help the guy, I wouldn't have bothered to reply at all, or had simply deleted his thread.

If you still haven't gotten the point up until now, let me condense it down into a single sentence:
You are in Diedel's house: please take your shoes off before coming in.

• Uh-oh, simX, I really appreciate your support, but I do not at all think like that. I simply consider that forum my work place, and I am trying to keep it in good condition. That's a responsibility I see on my behalf, and I will act accordingly. And that is why I close bug reports not posted in the proper place.
  
  Well, actually this entire fight is a waste of time, now that we are having the SF.net trackers.

Xamindar,

• I only closed bug reports, because they are supposed to be posted in the proper bug report threads, which would btw. tell me at once what OS it was. You feel so oppressed in the D2X-XL thread? Well, nobody forces you to go there, or ask for help, or even use D2X-XL, do they? I bet you must feel oppressed like hell everytime you have to get on a bus. I mean, you have to enter at the front, you are forced to pay your ticket, and you are supposed to find a seat or a good firm stand, and you are expected not to step on other people's feet. Not to speak of what you ought to do if an elderly lady enters the bus. Heck, for a sensitive little guy like you are this must feel like Nazi Germany!
  
  You got the same kind of support as almost every other D2X-XL user (unless he doesn't request it in the proper way), no better, no worse. You are an butthole of sorts, and ungrateful as hell. I regret having ever helped you.
  
  Well, it's great to jump on the Diedel bashing band wagon w/o having to fear much, isn't it, you slimey coward? Whew, it's incredible what kind of scum appears here to crap into this thread.

[simX]

Uh-oh, simX, I really appreciate your support, but I do not at all think like that. I simply consider that forum my work place, and I am trying to keep it in good condition. That's a responsibility I see on my behalf, and I will act accordingly. And that is why I close bug reports not posted in the proper place.

Fair enough. As I said above, my words are my own. My intention was not to imply that you thought of the D2X-XL forum as your house. I was just using it as an analogy to show how absurd the complaints were.

[Diedel]

Alright then.

[lars]

I have no time and no energy left to post a lengthy reply to each noob stomping into the forum

Then perhaps you should do nothing and let someone else answer. Perhaps you should consider a co-moderator

(Strange, it seems as if there is no moderators for any of the fora. Guess i must have missed some important event. never mind)

Lars

[Diedel]

Definitely. I think Aus-RED-5 would be a good choice, provided him willing to take the job.

Anyway, D2X-XL support is moving the SF.net, so the D2X-XL forum will turn more into a place of discussion now.

[Xamindar]

Xamindar,

• I only closed bug reports, because they are supposed to be posted in the proper bug report threads, which would btw. tell me at once what OS it was. You feel so oppressed in the D2X-XL thread? Well, nobody forces you to go there, or ask for help, or even use D2X-XL, do they? I bet you must feel oppressed like hell everytime you have to get on a bus. I mean, you have to enter at the front, you are forced to pay your ticket, and you are supposed to find a seat or a good firm stand, and you are expected not to step on other people's feet. Not to speak of what you ought to do if an elderly lady enters the bus. Heck, for a sensitive little guy like you are this must feel like Nazi Germany!
  
  You got the same kind of support as almost every other D2X-XL user (unless he doesn't request it in the proper way), no better, no worse. You are an butthole of sorts, and ungrateful as hell. I regret having ever helped you.
  
  Well, it's great to jump on the Diedel bashing band wagon w/o having to fear much, isn't it, you slimey coward? Whew, it's incredible what kind of scum appears here to crap into this thread.

Ok, Deidel, you are officially an idiot. I was posting a serious suggestion that would make eveyone's life easier in your forums if you just disallowed ANY thread creating. Asking for help and posting bugs is about the only reason people would need to create threads and sense you are so against those types of threads then just stop them from being created. I was semi-joking about the oppression (Halflife 2 reference ) and made no attempt to compare you with nazi Germany as it is so easy to do. Come on dude! What the hell is wrong with you? You are not god of Descent because you work on this project and you shouldn't expect people to treat you so special. People complain about you all the time in D3 online games, it has become kind of a common subject to talk about on there. And yes, I am jumping on the Deidel crapping bandwagon because YOU need to understand how rediculous YOU ARE ACTING. You need to apologize to these people who have only asked for help, not demanded it, not forced you to respond to them. Instead you feel the need to treat everyone like they are nothing compaired to your greatness. Seriously, get a clue. But of course you wont.

I'm not posting in this thread any more, it's not worth it. Where are the mods to control the mods(deidel)?

[Kyouryuu]

I read bug tracker systems all the time, Diedel.

In any case, it's clear you'd be better served by the structure SF.net offers its users, rather than trying to shoehorn a bug system into this BB.

Appending an error message to a 30 page thread may be no big deal to you, but to be honest, it's annoying for a user. Every bug database I've seen lets the user open a seperate page for a bug - Bugzilla is the obvious example. This way, seperate bugs can be tracked and fixed, and no one has to wade through a 30 page thread to see if the thing they complained about on page 26 is resolved on page 29. Your SF.net account works like Bugzilla and it's much clearer to the reader.

I tell you what, boy: You are mad at me because I tore your first post to pieces, where you trampled in here and gave me a full salvo of flames. You are making yourself an outright idiot with your continued posting of rubbish.

You know, the worst I called you in this thread was "arrogant." I don't know where you get off calling me "boy" and "idiot," among other worse things. In the future, you should watch who you say those things to.

I'm pointing out what I perceive as problems with your section of the forum and the way you run it. Obviously, I'm not the only one here that shares these concerns.

[Diedel]

Kyo,

• Dude, your entire post was one big insult, and you didn't just aim at the point of question, i.e. my post in the D2X-XL forum, you brought up everything you thought could be in some way used against me. And then you think, calling someone arrogant is perfectly normal, or what? Oh boy.
  
  Right in the next post you accuse me of having no respect for others. The entire list of flames posted here shows no respect for others, in this case me.
  
  What you guys posted and claimed here perfectly qualifies as idiocy, and I lined out in detail why.
  
  You just don't want to admit that I am having a valid point here, that you guys overreacted, that quite a few of you obviously were happy about an occasion to flame me.
  
  If I was you, I'd just shut up, if I can't bring myself to an apology. You are making things worse with every post.
  
  Just to let you know: I have apologized to people I had treated badly here in the past, but you guys seem to completely lack this basic decency.

Xamindar,

• You can officially f*ck yourself.
  
  I wonder why ppl should complain about me in D3 games - because I closed a few improperly posted threads? Can hardly be something else, as I am hardly ever present in other forum areas, and since introduction of the bug tracker less than before in the D2X-XL forum.
  
  So you have nothing better to do? And you think you can tell me how I have to do my work, because fulfilling your support requests is my work - you have no part in it, and it's a shame that you want to reap the fruits of my work but show no gratitude and no grace at all towards me. You don't understand that you are making my life harder with your selfish desire to behave like butt in the D2X-XL forum, and you don't care. You are the people who believe they are special, because rules that apply for everybody else must not apply for them! Just look at how people curse at me for a simple post pointing a D2X-XL user to the proper way to get support!
  
  I have been doing a tremendous lot for D2X-XL users seeking help and asking for new features - you being one of them, and all you bloody character cripple have to do is point fingers at me and put me down.
  
  Please then, stop the hell using D2X-XL.

[Hattrick]

haha!
nice!
stop using my D2x-xl he says.

[Duper]

That's a bit out of context Hat.

[lars]

Fortunately I can tell nsupersonic that you are not examples of the people of the DescentBB.net.

I think that was cheap and uncalled for.

When I joined this BB many years ago (10 years), it was a friendly place. New people/players could come here and ask questions (stupid or not) and if they didn't make a lot of noise or tried to start a fight, then they would get a nice and friendly answer.
At least that's how I remember it.

I would very much like to know if there has been a recent change in this attitude towards new people here on this BB, KB?

Oh, I know, there have been fights here on this BB. I know of more than one person who has left because of that, but as far as I can remember it has allways been people who has been here for some time.

Now, this game is dying. The number of active players/builders is dropping and it is(has been) dropping fast.
I don't think that we (or rather you, because I am not active anymore) can afford to loose any new potential members, not even if they ask annoying questions.

Well, that's just what I think.