TIGERassault wrote:Wait; did you just say that Jesus failed at his mission, and King and Ghandi wouldn't have won if they hadn't used force?
I give up...
No, I didn't.
You have to examine the conversation in context. I did imply that
most of the time the pacifist actions they undertook aren't the kind that stop the type of conflict that roid brought up.
For example, I know Jesus never set out to repel the Romans but roid never opined about the salvation of souls, he was going on about regiem change and the mentality of the government leader who would be using brute force because he was raised on He-Man cartoons.
You're the one who introduced Jesus, Dr. King and Ghandi into that context, not me.
You seem to insist on retroactively changing the premise of the conversation in the midst of your criticism so you can then find fault with my comments. Why you do this I won't comment on this time, we've already been down that road, but just in case you aren't actually doing it as a tactic here's the breakdown for you, see if you can spot where you got lost:
roid said of the alleged 'bad governments who interfere with people earning the food they need to live':
"Regime change should be on the table as a suggested part of any possible solution."
and roid said:
"heh, when you grow up on He-Man and GI-Joe, brute force to solve international problems make some kindof sick childish form of sense."
I thought about his blaming foriegn policy he disagrees with on some kind of childish TV culture mentality and suggested that it was based on the reality of human nature:
"Forget growing up on He-Man, try 'growing up on history' and you will find that most international problems don't get solved without brute force or the fear of it!"
Then roid quoted me and whined that he doesn't read my posts because they are too brutal for his sensive self, then commented on another that he also didn't read
I mocked his whine. (Don't worry, he's not reading this either)
Then you injected Jesus, Dr. King and Ghandi into the conversation and ascribed to me, through your fantasy, that I disbelieve Jesus existed, that Dr. King was just an invention to placate the black people and that I had never heard of Ghandi.
So now, because I dare mention that most international conflicts are solved by using brute force instead of peacful methods (and they are whether or not you can face that terrifying reality), and because I contend that using these violent methods are the result of something a little more substantial, complex and deeply rooted in human nature than the influence of He-Man cartoons on some member of government, that I'm unclear on the contribution or struggles of the three men you brought into this conversation.
I'm quite aware of their stories but no matter how great they were it doesn't change the fact that,
in the context of roids regiem-change-in-international-disputes comment my claim that brute force is the usual method and it's not born of some 20th century childs cartoon cultural mentality is correct, and
that is what I was talking about before you brought the three pacifists into the conversation and tried to cloud the issue.
Did you really expect me to take those three examples as proof that the following conflicts and their brutal conclusions don't prove you are off the mark?
* 2300 BC - conquests of Sargon of Akkad
* ca. 1720 BC - Kassite attacks on Babylon
* 1650-1600 BC - conquests of Hattusili I and Mursili I
* 1600 BC - Hyksos conquest of Egypt
* 1600 BC - Xia-Shang War in China
* 1430-1350 BC - Kaska invasions of Hatti
* 1100 BC - Sea Peoples harrying the Mediterranean; Dorian invasion
* 1046 BC - Shang-Zhou War in China
* 800 BC - Messenians Wars
* 722 BC - 481 BC Wars of the Chinese Spring and Autumn Period
* 701 BC - Sennacherib's campaigns in the Near East
* 499 BC - 479 BC Persian Wars
* 480 BC - 307 BC Sicilian Wars
o 480 BC First Sicilian War
o 410 BC - 340 BC Second Sicilian War
o 315 BC - 307 BC Third Sicilian War
* 475 BC - 221 BC Wars of Warring States Period in China
* 431 BC - 404 BC Peloponnesian War
* 395 BC - 387 BC Corinthian War
* 343 BC - 290 BC Samnite Wars between Rome and Samnium
o 343 BC - 341 BC First Samnite War
o 327 BC - 304 BC Second Samnite War
o 298 BC - 290 BC Third Samnite War
* 334 BC - 323 BC Wars of Alexander the Great
* 323 BC - 322 BC Lamian War
* 323 BC - 280 BC Wars of the Diadochi
* 274 BC-200 BC Syrian Wars
o 274 BC 271 BC First Syrian War
o 260 BC 255 BC Second Syrian War
o 245 BC 241 BC Third Syrian War
o 219 BC 217 BC Fourth Syrian War
o 202 BC 200 BC Fifth Syrian War
* 267 BC - 261 BC Chremonidean War
* 265 BC - 263 BC Kalinga War
* 264 BC - 146 BC Punic Wars between Rome and Carthage
o 264 BC - 241 BC First Punic War
o 218 BC - 202 BC Second Punic War
o 149 BC - 146 BC Third Punic War
* 215 BC - 168 BC Macedonian Wars
o 215 BC - 205 BC First Macedonian War
o 200 BC - 196 BC Second Macedonian War
o 171 BC - 168 BC Third Macedonian War
* 209 BC - 88 BC Parthian - Seleucid Wars
* 206 BC - 202 BC Chu-Han contention in China
* 135 BC - 71 BC Roman Servile Wars
o 135 BC - 132 BC First Servile War
o 104 BC - 100 BC Second Servile War
o 73 BC - 71 BC Third Servile War or Spartacist Rebellion
* 122 BC - 105 BC Jugurthine War
* 91 BC - 88 BC Social War
* 88 BC - 87 BC Sulla's first civil war
* 89 BC - 63 BC Mithridatic Wars
o 89 BC - 85 BC First Mithridatic War
o 83 BC - 82 BC Second Mithridatic War
o 74 BC - 63 BC Third Mithridatic War
* 82 BC - 81 BC Sulla's second civil war
* 58 BC - 50 BC Julius Caesar's Gallic Wars
* 55 BC - 54 BC Julius Caesar's Roman invasion of Britain
* 53 BC - 51 BC Parthian War of Marcus Licynius Crassus
* 49 BC - 45 BC Caesar's civil war
* 44 BC - 30 BC Roman Civil War
o 44 BC Post-Caesarian civil war
o 44 BC - 42 BC The Liberators' civil war
o 44 BC - 36 BC Sicilian revolt
o 41 BC - 40 BC Fulvia's civil war
o 32 BC - 30 BC Antony's civil war
* 40 BC - 37 BC Parthian invasion on Syria and Asia Minor
* 36 BC - 33 BC Marc Anthony' s invasion on Parthian Empire
