Rape Of The Soul

[Shoku]

Here's an interesting new documentary about religous art and subliminal images.

Rape Of The Soul

It is common for artists to place subliminal images in art used for marketing purposes, but I had no idea it had been done for centuries in religous art to the extent the producers of this film seem to imply - I understand from the promotional info the evidence for this is overwhleming.

[TIGERassault]

Here's an interesting new documentary about religous art and subliminal images.

Rape Of The Soul

It is common for artists to place subliminal images in art used for marketing purposes, but I had no idea it had been done for centuries in religous art to the extent the producers of this film seem to imply - I understand from the promotional info the evidence for this is overwhleming.

If you ask me, most of it (nearly all) is absolute rubbish!

Especially when they say the swastica is a sign of evil!

[Shadowfury333]

Especially when they say the swastica is a sign of evil!

Yeah, that's a buddhist symbol (for peace, if I recall correctly). In fact, if you look at a Japanese roadmap, the buddhist temples will be indicated by a swastika.

[Top Gun]

This is, without any doubt in my mind, the most disgusting piece of bull**** I've ever seen. Just look at those clips. ****ing unbelievable. Just knowing that people are able to create drivel like this and pass it off as the truth pisses me off to no end.

Please, Shoku, please tell me you don't buy into this ****. There's no way you can call what was shown in those clips \"evidence.\"

Oh, and I'm loving those news quotes too. Nice to see that anti-Catholicism is alive and well in the US...

[Shoku]

Please, Shoku, please tell me you don't buy into this ****. There's no way you can call what was shown in those clips "evidence."

What I buy into is the fact of subliminal imagery. It exists in this modern world to make advertisements more appealing to specific groups. I know many artists - I do work for a very large marketing /advertisement company - so I know that subliminal imagery is part of many campaign stratagies.

Did subliminal imagery exist in the ancient world? I believe it did - human nature is the smae now as it was then. "There is nothing new under the sun," as Solomon would say. I don't see this as a Catholic bashing, I see it as a Catholic victimization - unless there is hard evidence that a Pope, Cardinal, or Priest specifically ordered the inclusion of subliminal, subversive material in artwork, which I doubt.

Some of the subliminal stuff today is done as a joke, or just personnal commentary by the artist regarding their view of the subject matter, good or bad. And sometimes it's just the artist saying, "I did this."
I find it very likely this same thing occured in the past.

[Kilarin]

It exists in this modern world to make advertisements more appealing to specific groups.

I was very interested in subliminal advertising for a while. AND, while I believe it does exist, I came to the conclusion that most of the researchers had utterly failed to do a double blind test.

The problem is, that humans have a VERY good ability to pull meaning out of nothingness. What the Subliminal researchers have failed to do (or at least *I've* never found a study that did it) was to set up the experiment so that they have TWO pictures for the "experts" to look at. One an advertisement suspected of subliminals, and the other an image created without any deliberate subliminals at all.

Do NOT let the experts know which picture is which, then compare the findings.

I suspect that the "normal" picture would be found to be absolutely riddled with subliminal messages.

That wouldn't prove that subliminal advertising never happens, but it would prove that we need a better method of detecting it than having humans stare at a picture until they "see" something.

[Top Gun]

I wasn't accusing you of anything, Shoku, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. However, I can say that I feel absolutely no \"victimization\" as a result of any of the images presented in those clips, other than from the utter ridiculousness (and who knows, maybe even maliciousness) of some of those claims. As for the images in question, particularly that \"dancing girl,\" all I see are some so-called \"experts\" picking random shapes out of a completely innocent image. I've looked at the cover of that book a few dozen times at Mass, and not once did I even remotely see any of those shapes. (And let me tell you, in some respects, I have a rather...immature...mind. ) The same goes for that painting. Like Kilarin said, human beings are almost hard-wired to look for familiar shapes within complex images. It's taking those shapes as deliberate that is where the mistake is made.

[Topher]

So they made a whole movie based on pareidolia?

[Shadowfury333]

So they made a whole movie based on pareidolia?

They've made movies about more pointless subjects, I'm sure.

[Shoku]

I wasn't accusing you of anything, Shoku, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. However, I can say that I feel absolutely no "victimization" as a result of any of the images presented in those clips, other than from the utter ridiculousness (and who knows, maybe even maliciousness) of some of those claims. As for the images in question, particularly that "dancing girl," all I see are some so-called "experts" picking random shapes out of a completely innocent image. I've looked at the cover of that book a few dozen times at Mass, and not once did I even remotely see any of those shapes. (And let me tell you, in some respects, I have a rather...immature...mind. ) The same goes for that painting. Like Kilarin said, human beings are almost hard-wired to look for familiar shapes within complex images. It's taking those shapes as deliberate that is where the mistake is made.

Well, I bought the DVD and just viewed it. It's 140 minutes - very comprehensive - and the conclusions drawn are quite valid based on the evidence presented; and there is more to this than just funny pictures within pictures. The "experts" you refer to above are the following:

Dr. Wilson Bryan Key, internationally recognized for over 30 years as an embedded imagery expert. He is a former professor at the University of Western Ontario. A member of MENSA and author of five books on subliminal imagery, Dr. Key has been consulted by all forms of global media for decades, including testifying before the U.S. Senate and Canadian House of Commons as an expert witness, and he has provided hundreds of lectures throughout the world as the original definitive word on the subject.

Dr. Stanley Monteith is the nationally syndicated talk show host of Radio Liberty, an accomplished author and lecturer on geopolitics, who has spent more than 30 years researching the causes for America's spiritual and moral decline.

Dr. Marc Oster is an expert in clinical psychology and hypnosis, was former professor from the Alder School of Professional Psychology, and is now teaching at Argosy University. Dr. Oster is the past President of the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis, having been called as an expert witness in numerous cases of litigation, and has been consulted through many appearances in media.

Dr. Judith Reisman is a world-renowned author, lecturer and expert in child psychology and the harmful, negative effects of pornography. She is president of the Institute for Media Education, author of the U.S. Department of Justice, Juvenile Justice study, and has been a consultant to four U.S. Department of Justice administrations, the U.S. Department of Education, as well as the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

What this DVD does more than anything else, is emphasze that Christians are engaged in a spiritual war, whether they recognize it or not. And that among the diverse congregations and demonminaitons who proclaim Christianity, there are some very wicked people. Compare Ephesians 6:12 and 2Corinthians 10:3.

[Testiculese]

Every religion is at war with every other religion to become dominant, except Buddhism...And since people are people, you are surprised when people sink pretty low to win?

[Shoku]

Every religion is at war with every other religion to become dominant, except Buddhism...And since people are people, you are surprised when people sink pretty low to win?

This is not about war with other religions. And it is not about people sinking low to win. It is about spiritual degradation from within an organized religion that affects followers of that religion, even if they don't recognize it for themselves. The Christian spiritual war isn't a war against other religions. It is not a war in the physical sense, it is a war against wicked spiritual forces (Ephesians 6:12) most often identified with Satan, the devil, and the demons. And this is not suprising by any means - Christians are warned about this many times in the NT. What is interesting is the use of religious imagery to present a corupt version of belief - which this film proves, and effectively denounces.

[Jeff250]

If the trailer is supposed to be the best of the movie, then I'm not going to be running out and buying it.

[Shoku]

If the trailer is supposed to be the best of the movie, then I'm not going to be running out and buying it.

The trailer is not the best of the movie. This isn's a fictional tale with a plot ending in a climax. It is a true tale about a very indepth investigation. No trailer would do it justice.

[dissent]

I can think of, oh, about 500 things I'd rather spend twenty dollars on.