Ice Ice Baby

Sudanamaru · Post by **Sudanamaru** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:00 am

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... _m079.html

The white big chunk of rock dubbed Mazatzal turned to a clear ice, once brushed. I guess Sprit wake-up song today is from Vanilla Ice

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:38 am

nice avatar Sud, that your cat

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:25 am

AceCombat wrote:...that your cat

must...resist...temptation...

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:40 am

Will Robinson wrote:
AceCombat wrote:...that your cat
must...resist...temptation...

BAD MENTAL IMAGE

Sudanamaru · Post by **Sudanamaru** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:40 am

Yes, full pictures of her and his father and mother pictures are below. She is 3 years old now.

http://orchestra.webhostme.com/images/btatlim1.jpg
http://orchestra.webhostme.com/images/btatlim1.jpg
http://orchestra.webhostme.com/images/btatlim1.jpg
Father, Ash, unfortunetly died.
http://orchestra.webhostme.com/images/grib1.jpg
Lilu is the mother, one she was a kitten
http://orchestra.webhostme.com/images/honey1.jpg

Sudanamaru · Post by **Sudanamaru** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:45 am

correction:
http://orchestra.webhostme.com/images/btatlim1.jpg
http://orchestra.webhostme.com/images/btatlim2.jpg
http://orchestra.webhostme.com/images/btatlim3.jpg

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:20 pm

Just for future reference, if you need to correct something, there is always the Edit button.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:16 pm

Sudanamaru - where do you come up with this crazy-ass, insane stuff? That is NOT ice. It is ROCK. As in "Beating my head against one".

It is not possible for solid water ice to exist for long periods of time on the surface of Mars. Have you ever heard of "Sublimation"? It's the process whereby Ice turn directly into water Vapour without ever going through a liquid phase?

At 1% atmospheric pressure, Ice just evaporates into the atmoshere. It doesn't take that long either - you can measure it happening. This is why the Mars Polar Ice caps are covered in Dry Ice. The Dry ice snows or forms via "Hoar Frost" on top of the Water ice layer. This Dry Ice prevents the water ice below from sublimating.

The same process has been seen many times in images of Mars: a very thin layer of water ice frost can form on the surface, and it sublimates as soon as the sun comes up.

Now - please do us all a favour - and make your major form of exercise NOT just jumping to conclusions, or making unsubstantiated claims about Mars, and presenting them as facts.

Better yet, if you are so fascinated by Mars, go back to school and learn some physics and some chemistry.

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:19 pm

where's the stfu mobius picture

its not that big of a deal dumbass. dont have to flame him for it.

Sudanamaru · Post by **Sudanamaru** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:18 pm

Mobius, sure I know sublimation, but I guess sublimation rate should be quite low in cryogenic temperatures. If the sublimation process were too quick, comets had not be survived. A document I found (http://www.gatan.com/pdf/esem_application_note.pdf) state that matrix ice is extremely stable against sublimation, that is ice crystals forming cell like structures. This kind of ice in glaciers, I recall.
In turn such a chunk of ice can be part of such a glacier in the past.

The rock I think is made of ice on Mars is also covered by (frosted?) dust like crust which slowdown or even stop the sublimation, because if water vapour find no way to escape, vaporization should stop.

On the other hand document titled "Exposed Water Ice Discovered near the South Pole of Mars" (www.higp.hawaii.edu/~hamilton/rem_sens/ papers/Titus_Science.pdf) and the news "Researchers Find Mars' South Pole Cap is Mostly Water Ice" (http://www.planetary.org/html/news/arti ... r-ice.html)
encourage the possibility to fine water ice on other regions, I Think.

I made early conclusion, actually I should say "possibly". I am also sick of many people do that as just you said, propose their hypothesis as a fact. Now I am correcting it, and say "This could be ice, and I have supporting arguments".

I did actually some analyses on that. Still some issues need be clarify but analysis on http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... _p079.html pictures conclude the material is glassy and possibly transparent:

There are further evidence of glassy surface and transparency on panoramic images at
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... _p079.html

An interesting detail arose from pictures
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... 82R1M1.JPG
taken using filter 1 (719 nm)
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... 82L7M1.JPG
taken using filter 7 (1001 nm)
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... 82L6M1.JPG
taken using filter 6 (933 nm)
and the latest by filter 7 (440 nm)
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... 82R7M1.JPG

In first three pictures holes (left one) are mostly shadowed but except the latest one. It appear an anomalous lighting. It look like the light entering the hole from a small window uncovered by the shadow and reflected back from inside the "rock" and produce a backlighting. On the latest photo similar scenario exist but there is no anomalous lighting here. The difference may be caused by a fact that blue light (440 nm) does not propagate inside the ice but 719 nm to 1001 nm does.

One can also check images where the hole is fully covered and it is totally dark despite various filters are used. On these dark hole images is found a small light spot and a fracture trace, which they are dark on "backlighten" images.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:07 pm

Beowulf wrote:where's the stfu mobius picture

its not that big of a deal dumbass. dont have to flame him for it.

Ask and ye shall recieve...

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:54 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
AceCombat wrote:...that your cat
must...resist...temptation...

AGREED!!1

*SNICKER*

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:37 pm

Read my post again.

At NO POINT did I say ANYTHING to flame this guy. I flamed his insane crazy hypothesis - that is all!

Argumentum ad hominem is a flame - attacking the argument not the person it NOT.

Now - THIS is a flame:

You are MORONS for naming a post which attacks the arguemnt and not the person as a flame.

My explanation still stands: the chances of that rock being ice or containing anything except a micrometer thick layer of ice are precisely ZERO.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:03 pm

Mobius wrote:Read my post again.

At NO POINT did I say ANYTHING to flame this guy. I flamed his insane crazy hypothesis - that is all!

I suggest you re-read your post there Mobi...

Correction and/or Arguement of said Hypothesis:

Mobius wrote:Sudanamaru - where do you come up with this crazy-***, insane stuff? That is NOT ice. It is ROCK. As in "Beating my head against one".

It is not possible for solid water ice to exist for long periods of time on the surface of Mars. Have you ever heard of "Sublimation"? It's the process whereby Ice turn directly into water Vapour without ever going through a liquid phase?

At 1% atmospheric pressure, Ice just evaporates into the atmoshere. It doesn't take that long either - you can measure it happening. This is why the Mars Polar Ice caps are covered in Dry Ice. The Dry ice snows or forms via "Hoar Frost" on top of the Water ice layer. This Dry Ice prevents the water ice below from sublimating.

The same process has been seen many times in images of Mars: a very thin layer of water ice frost can form on the surface, and it sublimates as soon as the sun comes up.

Personal Attack on Sudanamaru:

Mobius wrote:Now - please do us all a favour - and make your major form of exercise NOT just jumping to conclusions, or making unsubstantiated claims about Mars, and presenting them as facts.

Better yet, if you are so fascinated by Mars, go back to school and learn some physics and some chemistry.

Class, this ends the lesson on the difference between correctly agrueing hypothesis and personally attacking an individual while doing so. While I'm at it, I'll second that "STFU Mobius" and add a...

roid · Post by **roid** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:17 am

Sudanamaru · Post by **Sudanamaru** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:41 am

roid this is ..... ha..ha..ha
I could not stop myself from laughing!

Sudanamaru · Post by **Sudanamaru** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:53 am

Mobius, I did not considered your post as a flame, it was indeed an attact to idea, not to person.

As I said earlier Mobius is right to criticise me on the sytle of the posting as presenting a possibility as a fact. But I thought this style would be funny.

On the other I would like to you see this posting/thread about new images of this rock comes today.

http://www.escribe.com/science/vortex/m30023.html

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:38 pm

Sorry to be 100% correct:

http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/pres ... R1_br2.jpg

If you bore into something - and it looks like rock, behaves like rock and has a spectrum like rock - then guess what?

IT'S ROCK

Sudanamaru - thanks for taking my original post the correct way. The rest of you dumbfusks can kiss my a$$.

Sudanamaru · Post by **Sudanamaru** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:19 pm

Maybe 50% correct. The core is rock without to much doubt, but it is covered by something being not a rock. This glassy material is in blue color and opaque. (dark colored material in this photo).
It look like a frozen chemical solution. It may be deposited in a atmospheric process, having water, solution can be concentrated by evaopartion processes and repeated condensation, evoparation may caused that. See http://www.golddirectory.com/mars/mars9.htm
a color compliation of this rock.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:18 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
AceCombat wrote:...that your cat
must...resist...temptation...

....

Scorch · Post by **Scorch** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:21 pm

OMFG!!!!11 There is a screaming angel in this ph0t0!!!!111oneone!!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... 7M2M1.HTML

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:37 am

Still doesn't take away from the fact that you insulted him Mobius. Just because he chose to ignore it doesn't make it otherwise

Not to mention my response to your "I didn't attack the person" comment proved it was a personal attack. Sooo....who is the dumbfvck now?