What secondary is the least well-balanced?

[[]V[]essenjah]

Just wonder what others thoughts are on this subject? Also, feel free to express why you feel this way.

[Testiculese]

Didn't vote, but the only imbalance is that he tank can dump all it's concs in about 2 seconds. Everything else is fine. It's the respawn counts that suck.

[heftig]

Cyclone IMO. It's useless.

[Rake]

I went with the Guided, which is so useless you pretty much never see it used, even as a last resort. Its low damage completely negates its ability to hit people from remote locations, an otherwise formidable attribute. If it had a speed burst, a self-destruct, and perhaps even variable warheads, it'd be a nice addition. As-is, it's simply not worth it outside SP.

Cyclones have area denial and instant kill ability (via direct hit), hence the nod for only second worst.

[Ferno]

I went with the Guided, which is so useless you pretty much never see it used, even as a last resort. Its low damage completely negates its ability to hit people from remote locations, an otherwise formidable attribute. If it had a speed burst, a self-destruct, and perhaps even variable warheads, it'd be a nice addition. As-is, it's simply not worth it outside SP.

Cyclones have area denial and instant kill ability (via direct hit), hence the nod for only second worst.

Try using the guided in multiplayer in a dogfight. it confuses the crap out of people and causes them to do all sorts of crazy stuff.

[Duper]

Rake, the guided does the same damage as a concussion or homer. Also, a guided can become a homer once released near a player.

[Grendel]

Black Shark

[Testiculese]

Black Shark? I completely forgot about that.

[Foil]

Black Shark

x2

[[]V[]essenjah]

Yeah, apparently I forgot the shark on that list. Ah well.


Why is napalm unbalanced? Because of the nasty invisible napalm bug?

[Zantor]

Cyclone IMO. It's useless.

I'd agree some there. the Mercury missile in D2 is more useful than the Cyclone.

[Sirius]

The Mercury missile makes the Cyclone look like a feeble joke, really.

I was tempted to vote for the Cyclone for that reason, but instead went for the missile that is least balanced the other way; the Napalm rocket. Not inherently retarded, but thanks to the client/server desync issue, it's pretty much broken.

[Foil]

...the nasty invisible napalm bug?

It's *not* a bug. "Invis. Napalm" happens because a nape object exists on the server, but doesn't get rendered on your machine, or gets rendered in a different spot. This can happen for a few different reasons, all related to connect issues (latency, dropped packets, etc.).

[Top Wop]

Cyclone is completely useless. I cannot recall more than a couple of times where I got a kill with it.

Blackshark can be balanced as long as the level designed for it doesn't spew it out constantly. Having a suprise kill of 3 or more ships can be fun sometimes.

Guided? Unbalanced? HAHAHAHAHAHAH! You are probably one of my many victims of whom I have used the guided missle against. It has a very sharp turning radius and can be very hard to shake off. A much more advanced form of the guided, just search for your target, then \"set it and forget it\". Its power is ofset by the fact that you can only fire one at a time and you have to be clever in your launch location so that you cant be seen while controlling it. Its by far my favorite weapon, and a big surprise to some of the vets ive used it against since its used rarely. Useful to relieve that hard-to-reach itch.

[d3jake]

Where's the Black Shark option...?

[Bakdraft]

The cyclone is awesome if you hit someone right in the face with it, but once it bursts, it's utterly useless.

[MD-2389]

The cyclone is awesome if you hit someone right in the face with it, but once it bursts, it's utterly useless.

Not entirely. Once it bursts, the target is too busy dodging it to notice you very much. Then you either blackshark the target to the wall or pound him/her with whatever weapon you have available. I try to follow a cyc with a mega whenever possible.

[Mobius]

I didn't vote - because the poll is meaningless. The secondaries are all \"balanced\" in that anyone can use them at any time (if they have them) against any opponent in the map.

The real questions are:

1) Is a weapon suited to a particular map or ship more than others? If \"yes\" - then the tank Concs (as Testi said) are devastating compared to a Pyros, and in close quarters (i.e. face to face) then you might consider that \"unbalanced\" when facing a pyro in your tank.

However, in Veins, those concs are pretty much useless, so in that situation it means nothing.

2) Is a weapon more readily available to one player than another? In other words, flying a tank in Veins will result in unbalanced gameplay because the Lamenix pilots collect MORE weapons than tank pilots. That would lead to an unbalanaced weapon load. This is why peeps don's fly tanks in Veins.

See - your whole approach is wrong, because experienced pilots automatically select the ships and maps which tend to balance these opposing forces.

Plus, there are maps which minimise the advantage of one ship over another, and there are maps which suit one particular ship over another. I'm thinking Tank and Indika here.

As always, it's the context of a question which has more meaning than the question itself.

[ReadyMan]

frag. It does too much damage for each \"fragment\" that connects. It was a joke in certain Entropy games.
Black Shark...fun idea, too much damage.

[The Lion]

Fun idea in singleplayer, not multi really.

Heck, the BS might as well do no damage at all. Just pop it into a
wall and follow up with a mega or a couple of other weapons...

[Foil]

... in Veins, those concs are pretty much useless...

You haven't played much Veins, then! I actually get quite a few concussion-kills in Veins because of the long hallways (it's not hard to use them to cover areas where you're not throwing primary fire), and they're very handy at "keeping the opponent's head down", which helps immensely when in an MD fight.

[Top Wop]

I didn't vote - because the poll is meaningless. The secondaries are all "balanced" in that anyone can use them at any time (if they have them) against any opponent in the map.

The real questions are:

1) Is a weapon suited to a particular map or ship more than others? If "yes" - then the tank Concs (as Testi said) are devastating compared to a Pyros, and in close quarters (i.e. face to face) then you might consider that "unbalanced" when facing a pyro in your tank.

However, in Veins, those concs are pretty much useless, so in that situation it means nothing.

2) Is a weapon more readily available to one player than another? In other words, flying a tank in Veins will result in unbalanced gameplay because the Lamenix pilots collect MORE weapons than tank pilots. That would lead to an unbalanaced weapon load. This is why peeps don's fly tanks in Veins.

See - your whole approach is wrong, because experienced pilots automatically select the ships and maps which tend to balance these opposing forces.

Plus, there are maps which minimise the advantage of one ship over another, and there are maps which suit one particular ship over another. I'm thinking Tank and Indika here.

As always, it's the context of a question which has more meaning than the question itself.

Ya know, the basic idea of a poll is not being so pedantic.

[Gooberman]

I remember in the Interplay preview demos for D3, before the game came out, the cyclone would stay together, and not split until the user wanted it too.

I liked that idea behind the missle alot better then what it is now.

[Kyouryuu]

Yeah, that's a cool idea. Gives the player a bit of choice in lobbing a big bomb (such as an Impact Mortar) versus a spread homing weapon.

I'm not a big fan of the Napalm Missile. Aside from the invisible Napalm issue, I feel it breaks the flow of the map. It forces a player to arbitrarily find some other way of getting to a destination. To cite an FPS analogy, it would be like spawning a giant door right in front of your pursuer. You just don't do that - it's obnoxious. Now, the counterpoint to that is what Mobius said - it has everything to do with the map layout. If you are in a tunnel rat level, the Napalm Missile is questionable. If you are in a massive outdoor level, the Napalm Missile is almost a moot point.

[Lothar]

I'm not certain Mobi plays Veins.

The reason people don't fly tanks much in veins is because it's hard to kill an opponent you can't catch, and usually the guy you most want to kill is the guy in the skippy with your flag.

But people DO fly tanks in veins sometimes. Most of the 6v6 or bigger games I see, there will be at least one or two tanks and 3 or 4 pyros or BPs. And they're hella useful, because they tend to live long enough to actually use that huge stack of secondaries they pick up.

-----

IMO the Nape is the worst-balanced missile in the levels I play -- mostly CTF or small anarchy levels. I don't like playing big outdoor levels because they make ping even more of a factor than it already is. But in small levels, a nape can act as a wall -- incredibly useful if you're flag-running, and incredibly useful if you're trying to close an enemy in for the kill. It's the only persistant area denial weapon -- stick one in a door, and the door is closed.

[Krom]

On another note, the BP uses concussion missiles faster then the tank. BP's dual concs are insanely powerful, I remember when I used to fly the BP in veins it was my #1 favorite trick, when you spawn, kill a phoenix in less then 1 second with concs, take phoenix's MD cannon, spawn kill phoenix with MD, rinse-repeat. A tank can't even come close to doing the same level of damage with concs as a BP.

[BUBBALOU]

This poll is meaningless, all of them are........ when abused

Noobz chucking secondaries at Noobz