Raelian Revolution?

[TigerRaptor]

Any one else heard of this group.

http://www.rael.org

[Dakatsu]

Its like scientology, except they are nice and not evil!

[Sirius]

Uh, yeah... the name rings a bell - weren't they the pro-cloning group?

[fliptw]

they've claimed to have cloned a human being...

still waiting on proof.

[MD-2389]

they've claimed to have cloned a human being...

still waiting on proof.

Not to mention they picked the WORST possible speaker to announce that. I've seen trailer trash that looked better than that woman.... *shudders*

[Behemoth]

Yes, I have and as Flip said, I am still waiting on proof concerning it.

I think the possibilities of being able to re-grow needed body parts with stem cell research is a worthy idea, And i'd also like to see how cloning could advance us more toward the future.

In fact, We wouldn't even be able to test the theory of whether they have feelings and emotions or not, Until we have successfully created one.

[Top Gun]

Not have feelings or emotions? o_0

Um, I don't know exactly where you got your ideas about cloning, but a cloned human being allowed to fully develop would turn out just the same as you or me (barring potential genetic disorders, but that's another story). Cloning any animal simply involves removing the nuclear material from a host egg cell and inserting in its place the nuclear material of the organism being cloned. (Though even then, since mitochondrial DNA is passed down via the egg cell, the copy isn't exact.) The egg cell is then implanted in a surrogate mother, and the cloned animal develops and is born, just like a naturally conceived animal. It's not as though there was anything remarkable about Dolly the sheep, after all; she was just an ordinary farm animal, albeit one that was genetically identical to another sheep. The same would be true for a cloned human being. And to dispel any other sci-fi notions, the clone wouldn't be exactly like the original person, either, no more than identical twins are required to be exactly alike personality-wise.

(Please note that I don't want to stir up any debate about the ethics/morals of human cloning, but I did feel that setting the record straight was worthwhile.)

[Foil]

Top Gun is right.

Unless you believe some of the really strange ideas out there about how \"souls\" can only be birthed by natural procreation (which would mean that test tube babies wouldn't have \"souls\", btw), there's no reason to think that cloned humans wouldn't have emotions.

[Topher]

This may be a bug in their FAQ, but I thought this was ambiguous enough to be funny:

Q: Where is Eve, the clone baby?

A: The Raelian Movement is an organization which is completely independent from Clonaid. Clonaid is the name of a project (not a company), and it is managed by a raelian member named Dr. Brigitte Boisselier. Neither Rael nor the Raelian Movement bring any funds to it, and they have no relationship whatsoever with Clonaid, besides their moral support concerning the cloning technologies. For more details visit clonaid.com.

[Kilarin]

And to dispel any other sci-fi notions, the clone wouldn't be exactly like the original person, either, no more than identical twins are required to be exactly alike personality-wise.

Exactly. If you've met Identical Twins (or triplets), You've met clones.

Behemoth is not alone in thinking this way. A large portion of the public doesn't understand clones because they've been fed some very strange ideas from bad science fiction.

If you'll go back through the news stories about the time the Raelian clone was announced, you will notice that there were even serious debates about whether a clone could be a citizen.

I HOPE that by the time this technology becomes common, people will have figured out how to deal with it better, BUT, to listen to current political rhetoric, we are at a serious risk of creating a manufactured underclass. People who don't count as "people".

It reminds me of Bujold's Science Fiction book "Falling Free". A corporation had genetically engineered 4 armed humans to live in free fall. When the project became unprofitable, they decided to terminate all of the experiments. This consisted of killing several hundred PEOPLE they had made. But instead of calling this murder or execution, they called it "disposal of post-fetal experimental tissue cultures".

[Behemoth]

Not have feelings or emotions? o_0

Um, I don't know exactly where you got your ideas about cloning, but a cloned human being allowed to fully develop would turn out just the same as you or me (barring potential genetic disorders, but that's another story). Cloning any animal simply involves removing the nuclear material from a host egg cell and inserting in its place the nuclear material of the organism being cloned. (Though even then, since mitochondrial DNA is passed down via the egg cell, the copy isn't exact.) The egg cell is then implanted in a surrogate mother, and the cloned animal develops and is born, just like a naturally conceived animal. It's not as though there was anything remarkable about Dolly the sheep, after all; she was just an ordinary farm animal, albeit one that was genetically identical to another sheep. The same would be true for a cloned human being. And to dispel any other sci-fi notions, the clone wouldn't be exactly like the original person, either, no more than identical twins are required to be exactly alike personality-wise.

(Please note that I don't want to stir up any debate about the ethics/morals of human cloning, but I did feel that setting the record straight was worthwhile.)

Hopefully we'll have the chance to find out.

[woodchip]

Doesn't this all boil down to sentience? Any senient construct; human, alien or coded, could not be considered as \"disposable\" no matter who may have created it.

[Ford Prefect]

Shades of Blade Runner.

[Kilarin]

Doesn't this all boil down to sentience? Any senient construct; human, alien or coded, could not be considered as "disposable" no matter who may have created it.

SHOULD not, not COULD not. It wasn't very long ago that in the US someone of African descent only counted as "three fifths of a person". They could be enslaved, their children sold away, and even beaten to death.

How we define "human" is going to become VERY important in the next few decades. Scientist are already playing with growing mice with a small percentage of human brain cells. How far will we end up going? If some countries outlaw the experiments after a certain point, there will certainly be nations that won't feel any moral inhibitions. How much do we have to modify the human genome before the result counts as a product, not as a human? This is something industry is very interested in.

The US patent office allows patents on human genes. The courts have made decisions that indicate those patents might include control over reproductive rights. So, someone wants to have an Olympic champion as a kid. They go to a lab and produce a child with some very nice genes. The kid grows up, decides to get married, and finds out that he doesn't have the right to pass on those genes to another generation without compensating the lab that owns the patents.

It all sounds like science fiction, but the bio revolution is going to make the computer revolution look like a very slow and mild affair. Society is going to be turned upside down dealing with these issues. What is human? Who has rights under the constitution? Hopefully we will make the right decisions, but given our track record, I wouldn't bet on it.

[Kyouryuu]

While you argue about Raelians, my Reptoid overlords will be enslaving your pathetic race! Mwahaha!

[Top Gun]

Hopefully we'll have the chance to find out.

There's nothing TO find out! Honestly, I can't see how I can make it any clearer. There would be nothing at all out of the ordinary about a cloned human being. There would be no way to distinguish if a person was a clone. Hell, like Kilarin said, identical twins/triplets/etc. are clones of each other. If reproductive cloning ever occurs in the future, the resulting baby will be just like any other baby around, albeit with rather unique origins. End of story.

[TechPro]

While you argue about Raelians, my Reptoid overlords will be enslaving your pathetic race! Mwahaha!

[Topher]

Hopefully we'll have the chance to find out.

1. Clones are born just like the rest of us, there's no magic chamber you step into get cloned. They take your DNA and put it into a human egg and it has to develop for 9 months just like the rest of us. Any taboo about "not being born" or not being human is unfounded.

2. Current cloning means trying over and over until it works. The byproduct will be hundreds of failed attempts. I wouldn't hope for this outcome by any means.