How bad is it to call someone a knappy headed ho?

For discussion of life's issues: current events, social trends and personal opinions.

Moderators: Tunnelcat, Jeff250

User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

How bad is it to call someone a knappy headed ho?

Post by Will Robinson »

Because if a television personality can't say it without getting fired then I think Sen. Robert Byrd should be impeached for going on television and calling people \"white niggers\".
And how about all those rappers, should we be boycotting Sony and EMI and RCA and screaming for the firing of all those who use the term ★■◆● and ho'?
Someone call SnoopDog and his posse and tell them they need to go find a new job because america is too damn sensitive to listen to their hateful racist commentary! And get me Quentin Tarrentino's number while you're at it because I'm thinking of starting a class action suit against him for writing Jackie Brown!

I'm just trying to wrap my mind around this new definition of racism and adjust my attitude before I get busted for requesting Aunt Jemima syrup on my belgian waffles :roll:

By the way, if you happen to be african american, or black under any other heading for that matter, and you find my post offensive...well, you really need to get over your big bad self mmmkay!?
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Post by Foil »

Oh, boy... :roll:

It's not a \"new definition\" of racism, it's racism. And it has to do more with the attitude behind the comments than anything else.

Now, I agree that there are a number of figures in entertainment that spew comments just as bad as what Don Imus' said, but that's no reason to defend him. What he said, and the way he said it, were just utterly wrong.

I'm glad to see the industry standing up for what's right, and I hope it's the beginning of \"cleaning up the act\" regarding the other people you mentioned.
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Re:

Post by Will Robinson »

Foil wrote:....Now, I agree that there are a number of figures in entertainment that spew comments just as bad as what Don Imus' said, but that's no reason to defend him. What he said, and the way he said it, were just utterly wrong...
I'm not interested in defending him. I'm wondering if the standard really needs to be set where his attackers proclaim it needs to be, I'm wondering if free speech really should be under that much regulation, and if they are sincere then surely they have changed their mind about Sen. Byrd calling people white niggers and we can expect calls for his removal by this evenings newscast....

You see, the industry isn't cleaning up anything unless there is a threat of revenue loss so they are cleaning up before the complaints cost them...I'm wondering why the complainers are so selective in their outrage and why the press doesn't have a field day ridiculing them for their hypocrisy.
User avatar
Bet51987
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 6:54 am
Location: USA

Post by Bet51987 »

I don't listen to Imus, but I've heard of him and after reading what all this was about, I have to agree with Will.

Although what he said was hurtful and racism of the worst kind, I don't think he should have been fired because those words are said everyday by the very race that is complaining.

Imus runs a ranch for kids that have cancer. All races are welcome there so I believe he has a good heart and just said something stupid. He apologized for the remark and I would bet he wouldn't repeat it ever again.

Firing him was dumb.

Bee
User avatar
Sniper
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: MKE. WI
Contact:

Post by Sniper »

Ok I'll bite. :)

IMHO, I don't think there's any clear-cut answer to the situation. We all want freedom of speech, but we also don't want people saying something that offends us.

What this man said wasn't needed; wasn't necessary. He could've spoken and used words to express his opinion in a better way. Also, as we've all heard before: \"With great power, comes great responsibility.\" This person has great power in that his voice reaches a large audience. You may get away with what he said in other forums of commentary, but in television people are watching and listening; and when you have strong opinions mixed with a lot of people watching and listening, you will have people out to get you. You're also bound to offend someone if you do not choose your words wisely.

Television/Radio make their money by broadcasting things the majority want to see. If the majority turns their attention away because of a situation like this - the funding is gone.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful and powerful gift we all have. Many people have sacrificed their lives for it. But because this gift is \"freedom\", it doesn't mean we can take grave advantage of it. It doesn't mean we have absolute freedom. We can spoil this gift for others, just like any other good thing in life. And soon, this freedom can be turned into its exact opposite.

Just as one man has the right to live and be free - once this man ends another mans life, his gifts of freedom are restricted.

One cannot go through life thinking that there are no consequences to anything because of loopholes. If there's anything our society is lacking is that of individual responsibility; no one seems to have it anymore.
User avatar
Dakatsu
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1575
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Post by Dakatsu »

The fact that this stirs up so much controversy is so damn stupid. Whoop-T-damn do, he got fired, lets suck up two hours of MSNBC news to report this.

I believe that Freedom of Speech should be allowed, no matter how stupid or bad the remarks may be. Odviously releasing the passcode for our Nuclear ICBM silos should count as treason, but nothing should be censored unless it undermines the security of the nation.

Whatever he wants to say, have fun. If I were to create a show that just repeats \"★■◆● the jews\" every day, people will get sick of it, people won't like me, people won't watch it.

No Viewers=Bad Ratings=No Show

End of story.
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Post by Foil »

Wait a minute...

The argument here is that because minority entertainers use some of the same language, Imus' comments shouldn't get him in trouble?

So, since some of the people here refer to each other using terms like \"geek\" and \"nerd\", it's okay for an outsider to come in and address this community as \"egg-headed gamer freaks\"?

The point is that racist and insensitive comments are wrong, period. We can talk about double-standards, but that doesn't acquit Imus of his statements.


[Edit:

Let's not confuse things. Freedom of Speech is not the issue here. Imus is (and should be!) free to say anything he wants!

The issue is about whether private organizations (like the radio and television networks) should take a stand against racism in their programming.]
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re:

Post by Foil »

Dakatsu wrote:Whatever he wants to say, have fun. If I were to create a show that just repeats "**** the jews" every day, people will get sick of it, people won't like me, people won't watch it.
It would be great if that were true (people naturally turning away from racial slurs), but it's simply not.

I think you would be surprised at how many people believe whatever a "TV authority figure" says, no matter how racist or hateful or ridiculous it is.

As far as I'm concerned, morally-speaking, television and radio authorities have an obligation to clean up their act. As has been stated before, they have a long way to go, because degrading comments seem to be rampant (especially in popular music)... but Imus' firing is a start.

[Edit: I appreciate Imus' contributions to society, and his contrition. However, this is not just about him. It's about whether the television and radio networks support racist comments made by their on-air personalities.

A television network which ignores racist remarks made by one of its commentators (i.e. Imus) is just as wrong as a music company which ignores racist material by one of their musicians (i.e. some types of popular music). ]
User avatar
Sniper
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: MKE. WI
Contact:

Post by Sniper »

Imus is broadcasting his opinions on someone else's network. The station(s) do not belong to him. So as far as I'm concerned, the owners of the station(s) can do whatever they want. Until Imus can buy all of his own stuff to support his broadcasting (and this goes for anyone else) he'd/they'd better be prepared for the consequences of their actions. Right?
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Post by Foil »

Yep.

Legally, Imus is free to say whatever he wants (Freedom of Speech!).

...and...

Legally, the networks can hire and fire whoever they want.


So, this becomes the question \"Should the networks have fired him?\" In my opinion, yes, on both a moral basis (racism is always wrong) and a practical basis (being seen as supporting that type of comment could cost them in advertising revenue).

[Edit: Sorry, I get a bit worked up about racial issues - I grew up in a community where I witnessed a lot of racism, and heard a lot of dumb excuses for it. :roll:]
User avatar
Lothar
DBB Ghost Admin
DBB Ghost Admin
Posts: 12133
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: I'm so glad to be home
Contact:

Post by Lothar »

I don't listen to him, or watch either of those networks, so I don't give a poop whether or not they fire him. If they think his comments were over the top and bad for their bottom line, fire him, and if not, keep him. Same goes for the guys who refer to the opposite political party, or certain religious types, in equally offensive ways -- fire them if you want, I don't care.

But please, don't fill up the front page of every news website in the country with telling me that Don Imus said something stupid.
User avatar
Dakatsu
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1575
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Re:

Post by Dakatsu »

Lothar wrote:But please, don't fill up the front page of every news website in the country with telling me that Don Imus said something stupid.
YES!
User avatar
Bet51987
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 6:54 am
Location: USA

Post by Bet51987 »

Foil, no one said he shouldn't be punished, and yes the double standard is there because I hear enough of it on boom boxes at the parks that are all done by the same people that are calling for his head.

Imus should have been fined by the networks, then the money given to an athletic charity of the girls choice. Imus has been apologetic, and even after the firing still wants to meet with the girls to apologize to them personally. I don't think he is that bad of a guy because of his work with kids of ALL races....

He should not have been crucified that badly.

Bee
User avatar
Lothar
DBB Ghost Admin
DBB Ghost Admin
Posts: 12133
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: I'm so glad to be home
Contact:

Post by Lothar »

User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Re:

Post by Will Robinson »

Foil wrote:Wait a minute...

The argument here is that because minority entertainers use some of the same language, Imus' comments shouldn't get him in trouble?
No, not from me anyway. My argument is the same people that are complaining that he's violated the FCC and used hate speech are the same ones who defended a former Grand Kleagel of the KKK for saying "I've seen white niggers..." on television.

So my argument is if that kind of speech is forbidden by FCC reg's and is hate speech then why do they differentiate between the two speakers?
The same can be said for much rap music and movies and comics...etc. but I'll stick with the senator from west Virginia for now to keep it simple.

I'm not saying Imus should get a pass I'm saying the complainers are not being honest about what he did wrong.

Imus didn't even really say anything racist, he insulted the appearance of the girls saying they had knappy hair and were whores. Well usually only black people have knappy hair but he didn't attribute their alleged whoring nor their rough appearance to their race. He just said they had knappy hair, they were rough looking, and are whores.
Is Eddie Murphy a racist for all the funny as hell white guy impersonations he did? Of course not!
Damon Wayans....Richard Prior...on and on....

Imus was busted for talking black while being white, pure and simple.
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re:

Post by Foil »

Bet51987 wrote:He should not have been crucified that badly.
From a personal perspective looking at Mr. Imus, I can certainly understand that. I know he didn't intend to be racist or denegrating by those remarks, and that he is showing contrition, even personally apologizing to the team. I also agree that he seems to be a generally good guy, using his position to help others.

However, the perspective I'm trying to address is broader, regarding how I believe national media should handle this, especially since it's gotten so much national attention.

In my opinion, for CBS/NBC/etc. to do anything less than remove the responsible party would make too light of the issue, implying that racist language is not that serious.

As a quick comparison, when I was younger I was employed in a position where I dealt with the public via written letters and over the phone. If I had ever used similar language to what Imus said, I would have been fired that very day, no question. So why is it any different for the television and radio networks who employ Imus, especially given the sheer number of their viewership?
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Re:

Post by Will Robinson »

Foil wrote:If I had ever used similar language to what Imus said, I would have been fired that very day, no question. So why is it any different for the television and radio networks who employ Imus, especially given the sheer number of their viewership?
Well I don't know where you worked but Imus' job was basically being a grumpy insulting sumbitch so his case is a bit different I bet.
The only thing wrong with todays action is the standard has apparently been selectively applied. Kind of a new form of bigotry actually. From now on white guys can't use the same kind of comments that black guys can....

Unless you really think this new standard is going to be applied to everyone. And if it is we now live in a very sad little country.
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re:

Post by Foil »

Will Robinson wrote:Imus didn't even really say anything racist, he insulted the appearance of the girls saying they had knappy hair and were whores.
:roll: I'm going to attribute that statement to the general caucasian mis-understanding about what is considered an insult among African-Americans.

Take it from someone who has taught in a 99%-African-American high school... those remarks are extremely degrading. I don't have to be an expert in black culture to know that, I just have to know how my students would have reacted if I had used that kind of language.
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re:

Post by Foil »

Will Robinson wrote:Unless you really think this new standard is going to be applied to everyone. ...
Trust me, I know it's often a double-standard.

However, that doesn't mean that networks should have no standard.
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Re:

Post by Will Robinson »

Foil wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:Imus didn't even really say anything racist, he insulted the appearance of the girls saying they had knappy hair and were whores.
:roll: I'm going to attribute that statement to the general caucasian mis-understanding about what is considered an insult among African-Americans.

Take it from someone who has taught in a 99%-African-American high school... those remarks are extremely degrading. I don't have to be an expert in black culture to know that, I just have to know how my students would have reacted if I had used that kind of language.
No, you got it right and so did I!
Insulting is not racist. If we have now lost the right to be insulting we live in a candy assed piece of crap mob rule politically insanely correct crap hole!
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Re:

Post by Will Robinson »

Foil wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:Unless you really think this new standard is going to be applied to everyone. ...
Trust me, I know it's often a double-standard.

However, that doesn't mean that networks should have no standard.
Doesn't having a standard imply that there is a singular benchmark that applies to all?!?
Are you really ready for a humorless due to over-protective legislation culture?
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re:

Post by Foil »

Will Robinson wrote:Insulting is not racist. If we have now lost the right to be insulting we live in a candy assed piece of crap mob rule politically insanely correct crap hole!
Yes, we don't need to be so politically-correct that people can't challenge each other.

Had Imus said "clumsy sweaty brutes", it would have just been an insult.

However, using phrases like "nappy-headed 'ho" and words like "jigaboo" are racist insults, and that makes a big difference.

That's exactly why the networks needed to act in this particular situation, whereas Imus' previous generalized grumpy insults were ok.
User avatar
Dakatsu
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1575
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Post by Dakatsu »

Ho isn't rascist. It means a prostitute who is owned by a pimp. Its just regular in black culture.

Dawg, don't yo kno yo ★■◆●, G?

Sorry... jigaboo makes me laugh, sounds like an animal from a childrens show. I will never say it, but to me it is just too rediculous.
User avatar
Bet51987
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 6:54 am
Location: USA

Re:

Post by Bet51987 »

Foil wrote:From a personal perspective looking at Mr. Imus, I can certainly understand that. I know he didn't intend to be racist or denegrating by those remarks, and that he is showing contrition, even personally apologizing to the team. I also agree that he seems to be a generally good guy, using his position to help others.
I stopped you right there.. :)

The rest is about money and a needed scapegoat.

Bee
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re:

Post by Foil »

Dakatsu wrote:Ho isn't rascist. It means a prostitute who is owned by a pimp. Its just regular in black culture.

Dawg, don't yo kno yo *****, G?

Sorry... jigaboo makes me laugh, sounds like an animal from a childrens show. I will never say it, but to me it is just too rediculous.
It may be funny to you, and I'm sure you've heard it used in black culture.

That doesn't change the fact that it's not only insulting, it's very racist, especially coming from a caucasian. Imus may not have intended it that way, but it is.

Like I said, I may not be an cultural expert, but I've been around enough to know what's just a "friendly jab", and what comes across as racist.

[Edit: By the way, I know you didn't mean it this way, but what you just said, "prostitute owned by a pimp... is regular in black culture", is just one example of a poor racial stereotype which has a negative implication about african-american morality.]
Bet51987 wrote:...about money and a needed scapegoat.
You may be right that the networks are largely motivated by money, but for me it's about standing up for what's right.
User avatar
Bet51987
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 6:54 am
Location: USA

Re:

Post by Bet51987 »

Foil wrote:
Bet51987 wrote:...about money and a needed scapegoat.
You may be right that the networks are largely motivated by money, but for me it's about standing up for what's right.
I stand up for what is right too which is why I have a problem with this because I attach great weight to intent of meaning. Imus did not make the remark out of racial hatred, dislike, or disrespect. It was made for simple comic value and Mr Sharpton siezed on the opportunity to make it an issue to propel his career by destroying another.

If you said that in an office, you would be fired like you previously said,and rightfully so, but you would learn from it and find another job. Imus's career is over and no radio station will ever hire him again and I personally think the networks went too far.

I never watch his show, but he strikes me as someone who would have learned from that mistake and would have made a better contribution to racial inequalities by voicing his opinions on it daily. I know he would have and I commend him for talking with those girls personally, even after being fired and he didn't have to do that.

Again, I found it offensive and repugnant, but a forgivable offense when weighing in the intent. Like I said, this was a career destroying witch hunt by those worse than Imus.

Bettina
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Post by Will Robinson »

Did he call them jigaboo's?
User avatar
Dakatsu
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1575
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Re:

Post by Dakatsu »

Foil wrote:
Dakatsu wrote:Ho isn't rascist. It means a prostitute who is owned by a pimp. Its just regular in black culture.

Dawg, don't yo kno yo *****, G?

Sorry... jigaboo makes me laugh, sounds like an animal from a childrens show. I will never say it, but to me it is just too rediculous.
It may be funny to you, and I'm sure you've heard it used in black culture.

That doesn't change the fact that it's not only insulting, it's very racist, especially coming from a caucasian. Imus may not have intended it that way, but it is.

Like I said, I may not be an cultural expert, but I've been around enough to know what's just a "friendly jab", and what comes across as racist.

[Edit: By the way, I know you didn't mean it this way, but what you just said, "prostitute owned by a pimp... is regular in black culture", is just one example of a poor racial stereotype which has a negative implication about african-american morality.]
Bet51987 wrote:...about money and a needed scapegoat.
You may be right that the networks are largely motivated by money, but for me it's about standing up for what's right.
I meant African-American Hip-Hop culture. Guess I should of said that. I definatley know that all blacks are not trying to act gangsta in da hood, g.

And from Imus, the "Jigaboos vs. Wannabees"... yeah, hella-rascist.
User avatar
Kyouryuu
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 5775
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Isla Nublar
Contact:

Post by Kyouryuu »

Were the comments racist? I think so. But that argument aside, perhaps the most compelling argument is the fact that Imus directed them toward a bunch of female basketball players in college.

People who are pretty much defenseless.

To me, that's where he crosses the line. The 66-year-old wannabe cowboy used his show as a platform to verbally ridicule a team of twenty-somethings who did nothing to him and who were minding their own business until he decided to open his wrinkly old mouth.

I mean, how would you like that? Say you're 20 years old, it's a typical school day with classes and studies. You're tired from that basketball game last night. And suddenly everyone is telling you that some crusty guy on the national media circuit personally called you a \"nappy headed ho.\" Yeah, I'm SURE you'd shrug that off.

Maybe I'm the only one in this forum who finds that bothersome.

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks these comments would get ordinary people fired on the spot. Why should the media be so special?

That said, MSNBC and CBS should have been far more tidy about this. Kick the guy's pruned butt out the door and leave it that way. They had the high road here. From a purely economic standpoint, if advertisers didn't want to advertise on Imus' show, there was no justification in keeping him. Instead, they blew it. Don't go on for the next 48 hours reporting on it. Imus has done nothing meaningful in this world to warrant such attention. He is undeserving of this attention. This is not breaking news. This is not worthy of the front page.

Lothar said it more succinctly than I can. XD
User avatar
Top Wop
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 5104
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 3:01 am
Location: Far from you.
Contact:

Re:

Post by Top Wop »

Kyouryuu wrote:I mean, how would you like that? Say you're 20 years old, it's a typical school day with classes and studies. You're tired from that basketball game last night. And suddenly everyone is telling you that some crusty guy on the national media circuit personally called you a "nappy headed ho." Yeah, I'm SURE you'd shrug that off.
Heh, so you think that living a life of a crybaby is the way to go?

Let me tell you something. I was hazed from kindergarten to high school. I didn't have an Al Sharpton to back me up. I didn't chase everybody down and demand an apology. The principals and teachers were generally useless in stopping the hazing, so I could not rely on them for help. I grew a SPINE. Mayby you should do that too, and so should the rest of "America". If you are that much affected by a few words from an old idiot, then you have bigger issues to deal with.

Im not condoning what he said, but much, much worse things have been said, and not necessarily though the media, and yet nothing has been done about it. He who is without sin:
Sharpton, a Pentecostal minister and one­time tour manager for soul singer James Brown, first gained prominence in 1987 by embracing the claims of Tawana Brawley, a 15-year-old black girl in Poughkeepsie, N.Y., who claimed that she had been raped by six white men, including some police officers and a prosecutor, in a nearby town.

After Brawley's claims were discredited, Sharpton and two lawyers who had backed his campaign were ordered to pay $345,000 in damages for defaming the prosecutor, Steven Pagones. Sharpton has refused to apologize to Pagones, and his share of the judgment was paid by a friend.

He also has been accused of fomenting an arson and riot in which several people died in 1995 by calling the Jewish owner of a store in Harlem a "white interloper" and standing by while one of his associates urged a gathered crowd to burn the store down.
Link.

What about what Al Sharpton did years ago? All of a sudden thats irrelevant because that would be inconvenient for him? Why doesn't Al quit and get a new job? Why can't he be held accountable? Surely his words had greater effect, people died!

It takes a big man to apologize, and it takes a big man to ACCEPT an apology. But in our PC world, it is filled with lots of very small men who need to validate themselves by being hypocrites. The difference is, Imus apologized and wanted to meet with the Rutgers team to put an end to the debacle while Al Sharpton HAS YET to apologize for what he did years go. "Race Relations" has taken a step backward because people like Al keep burning the bridges.
User avatar
Nosferatu
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 489
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:15 pm

Re:

Post by Nosferatu »

Foil wrote:You may be right that the networks are largely motivated by money, but for me it's about standing up for what's right.
OK then where is all the, surely forth coming, righteous indignation about terms like "cracka-azz" used by stars the likes of Dave Chapell or Carlos Mencia? (forgive me if I didn't get the spelling of their names right) Shouldn't they get fired by national media as well. I'm a 40+ white guy in America and I find such comments offensive, yet I don't hear a single sole crying out, fire them.

FWIW. I'm using an old lawyer trick above in making an absurd suggestion. I despise political correctness in all its forms and yes I LMAO at the likes of Dave Chapell and Carlos Mencia. And Dave Imus should not have been fired. He made a hurtful comment and apologized.

Directed at the PC forces in play here:
GET OVER IT.

SHOVE THE RIGHTIOUS CONDEMNATION WHERE ONLY YOUR PROCTOLOGIST CAN FIND IT.

And most importantly GET A LIFE!
User avatar
Kyouryuu
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 5775
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Isla Nublar
Contact:

Re:

Post by Kyouryuu »

Top Wop wrote:Heh, so you think that living a life of a crybaby is the way to go?

Let me tell you something. I was hazed from kindergarten to high school. I didn't have an Al Sharpton to back me up. I didn't chase everybody down and demand an apology. The principals and teachers were generally useless in stopping the hazing, so I could not rely on them for help. I grew a SPINE. Mayby you should do that too, and so should the rest of "America". If you are that much affected by a few words from an old idiot, then you have bigger issues to deal with.
I don't take any personal offense at his remarks. I think they were tasteless and completely uncalled-for, but I'm in no way affected by his statements. I didn't care if Imus was fired or not (certainly other "pundits" have said worse and lived to fight another day). And I especially don't care for the ceaseless coverage of his firing. There's a lot of news going down in this world today and Imus should be an infinitesimally small part of it.

However, I question why must you ridicule me and call me "spineless" and draw such conclusions? Because my viewpoint differs from yours? If you disagree with me, attack my idea. Don't run around calling me names. That's disrespectful and undercuts intelligent discourse. :)
User avatar
TIGERassault
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1600
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:33 pm

Post by TIGERassault »

\"Nappy-headed hos\"... racist?
Excuse me for asking, but how in the hell is that racist?!

Or is this another one of those cultural taboos...
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Re:

Post by Will Robinson »

Will Robinson wrote:Did he call them jigaboo's?
Does anyone know if he called them that?
User avatar
woodchip
DBB Benefactor
DBB Benefactor
Posts: 17865
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 2:01 am

Post by woodchip »

Here's the problem. When Rappers rap and call names it is in a general context. Imus screwed up by specifically calling certain college girls Ho's. Ho = whore so lets not forget what the conotation is. If Imus would of just said, \"Look at those nappy heads\" he probably would have squeeked by with a apology.
Imus crossed a very fine line. Off the air he can say whatever he wants in private. Publically he should of known better. Remember, Imus was not charged with a crime as during the McCarthy Era communist were rounded up. Private business has the right to hire and fire for due cause and Imus got his due.
User avatar
TIGERassault
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1600
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:33 pm

Re:

Post by TIGERassault »

Oh, I just found out that the Rutgers Team players were all black. That's a different case altogether then.
wait...
No it isn't. It's still a non-racial insult, and I'm already really fed up with people thinking "any conflict between two people of opposite skin colour is racism!"

However, that is to say I still think he should have been fired, for the show's sake alone. It wouldn't do them any good to keep a man like that on.
Will Robinson wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:Did he call them jigaboo's?
Does anyone know if he called them that?
According to this article, it was someone else, off-camera.
http://indiana-basketball.aolsportsblog ... eaded-hos/
User avatar
Top Wop
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 5104
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 3:01 am
Location: Far from you.
Contact:

Re:

Post by Top Wop »

Kyouryuu wrote:However, I question why must you ridicule me and call me "spineless" and draw such conclusions? Because my viewpoint differs from yours? If you disagree with me, attack my idea. Don't run around calling me names. That's disrespectful and undercuts intelligent discourse. :)
I was using "you" figuratively and was not attacking you personally. I apologize if my poor wording made it out to be otherwise.
User avatar
Foil
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re:

Post by Foil »

Nosferatu wrote:... Dave Chapell or Carlos Mencia? ... fire them.

Dave Imus should not have been fired.
Talk about a double-standard. :roll:

As I've said before: there are others who also need to held accountable, but that doesn't acquit Imus!
Nosferatu wrote:GET OVER IT.

SHOVE THE RIGHTIOUS CONDEMNATION WHERE ONLY YOUR PROCTOLOGIST CAN FIND IT.
Hmm, an insult (all-caps, no less!).

Allow me to make the point yet again:

Insults are one thing.
Racial insults are quite another.

Racially-inflammatory language has no place in our society. And yes, I'm including minority entertainers in that statement - it applies to everyone.
TIGERassault wrote:"Nappy-headed hos"... racist?
Excuse me for asking, but how in the hell is that racist?!
It's racist because of the historical and cultural significance of the terms, it's racist because of who it was directed at, but most of all it's racist because of the way it was said.

If you still don't think it's racist, go ask the next african-american you see - they'll probably be tactful about it, but they'll be clear about how racist those phrases are.

As I said earlier, this issue is one I take seriously. I attended a mixed-race church growing up and had a couple of black friends, so I thought I was pretty aware of racial issues. Not so.

It wasn't until I spent a year teaching in a 99% african-american inner-city school that I finally learned a lot (sometimes the hard way) about the culture, and how terms like "nappy", "ho", and "jigaboo" are perceived.

Those terms don't mean much to white society - they're associated with stand-up comedians, as jocular terms - but they are seen very differently in black culture, especially when coming from a caucasian.

[Note: I heard on the tv this morning that this was not the first time Imus, or someone on his show, has used racial slurs. Does anyone know anything about this?]

P.S. It's not a matter of overly-sensitive people needing to "get over it", it's a matter of companies' ethical responsibility to watch how their on-air personalities are representing themselves.
It doesn't matter what you think of Don Imus or Al Sharpton or whoever... racism is still a big problem in America, and until people take some responsibility for the way we talk about people not like ourselves, that's not going to change.
User avatar
Kyouryuu
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 5775
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Isla Nublar
Contact:

Re:

Post by Kyouryuu »

Top Wop wrote:I was using "you" figuratively and was not attacking you personally. I apologize if my poor wording made it out to be otherwise.
Thanks, Top Wop. :)

Now onto... what, hour 96 of the coverage? I have a feeling cable news is really grasping at straws in the absence of the Senate, Congress, and President on their respective breaks. :lol:
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10135
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Post by Will Robinson »

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-\"si-z&m also -\"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective

*****************************

Do you think Stevie Wonder was using some self deprecating racial humor when he wrote the lyric \"Looking back on when I was a little knappy headed boy\"?
Or was he speaking in terms of endearment, reflecting on the child he once was?

'knappy headed ho' is no more racist than 'fat slut' or 'tall thief' or 'freckle faced kleptomaniac'

What it is is an insult that designated both the appearance and behavior of the target.
Only because it was delivered in the common street vernacular of african american's by a white man could it ever become a ten day headline of racism.

If he had said those are some rough looking african american prostitutes would it be racism or an insult?
So now we have a new standard, simply by being white and affecting the slang of african americans you can be a racist! No other race or sub-group gets treated with such caution or deference.

Well we've come a long way haven't we?!? From separate but equal all the way to equal but special!

There's nothing wrong with the company wanting to fire their insulting shock jock for insulting the wrong people but the minute Al Sharpton starts mugging the camera talking racism the media should have said 'Hold on their loudmouth! He insulted them but the racism charge is bogus!'
Instead the media throws gasoline on the flame so they can have film at eleven of a big sensational fire and the culture seems to be lapping up Sharpton's new special standard for living with african americans.


I don't know what is more pathetic, this supposed new standard that will be enforced (yea, right, like that's really going to apply to anyone other than whites)...or the fact that our media is so willing to fan these flames instead of shine some objective light on the complaint and just let the shock jock take his lumps for insulting some little girls playing hoops....er sorry I'm white so I better rephrase that...playing basketball. :roll:
Post Reply