New stick config suggestions?

[Gekko71]

Hi Folks.

I've just upgraded from a generic four button joystick with hat switch to a vibrating sidewinder knockoff (...man, that sounds dirty )with a rotational axis - but no matter what I try I can't get a comfortable / instinctive config on the thing.

I know a lot people here use joysticks with a rotational axis and yes this topic has no-doubt been covered in detail somewhere else but I can't find any links to the content I want so far. I'ts a pretty decent stick for the money and I want to persevere with it as it will no doubt improve my game long term. (It even *looks* like a pyro - with swept forward wings on the base )

I've tried mapping the rotational axis to horozontal sliding and to banking but I've struggled with both. Anyone got any tips on what works well for them? (or at least point me in the right direction to existing content) ...Throw the nOOb a bone here folks - all suggestions welcome. Thank you

[Krom]

I use twist for banking, it seemed to be the most natural assignment for it. When I switched from keyboard only to joystick controls using the twist for banking was one of the harder movements to master since it makes you bend your wrist in odd ways. After a few days of flying with it I adapted and now it is completely natural and easy, I haven't had to actually think about it in ages. Most people using joysticks with twist I have seen at LAN parties and such are using roughly the same config as mine. Some use extra keys on the keyboard for sliding instead of the hat switch or in addition to the hat switch (which is a pretty good idea since some of them were very elite). I've seen a couple people that use the hat switch for banking and don't use the twist at all.

Any config that gives you an adequate level of control can work for Descent once you adapt to it. \"Adequate control\" should generally be thought of as being able to move AND turn your ship in any direction, including the afterburner and banking, while firing both primary and secondary weapons all at the same time in any combination. To some extent Descent is hard on the controls and learning curve because you basically have to be able to do everything at once without moving or resetting your hand positions.

The main thing to keep in mind when changing your config is you first have to un-learn your previous configuration before you can learn a new one and that takes some time. Many pilots are wasted because of poor or inefficient control configurations, so if you are going to change and improve yours don't waste the time and effort it takes to change it all by sticking to old bad habits. It was a rough couple of weeks I had switching from keyboard only to joystick, but now I couldn't imagine flying well with the level of restrictions I had using the keyboard.

[Grendel]

I would guess that every config will not come natural at the beginning I fly stick, using almost the same configuration ever since:

Right hand (SW 3DP):

X - heading
Y - pitch
R - bank
hat - slide
B1 - primary fire
B2 - secondary fire
B3 - cycle primary
B4 - cycle secondary

Left hand (KB, n52, DX1 or whatnot). Each finger has a primary and a secondary key:

index - AB, switch to vauss/MD
middle - fwd, rev
ring - fire secondary, switch to mortar/nap
pinky - push-to-talk
thumb - sliding

The right-hand setup is pretty common, but also hard on the stick. I know a few people that use the X & R axis swapped (I wouldn't do that tho since most sticks have a better resolution on the X/Y axis).

Like Krom said, practice is the key.

[Herculosis]

I know a few people that use the X & R axis swapped (I wouldn't do that tho since most sticks have a better resolution on the X/Y axis).

My config is similar to Grendel's (hat for sliding, etc.), but I tend to disagree on the above point.

My first stick had an R(twist), and I tried for a few hours using it for banking. At the time, since I wasn't comfortable with a stick at all, using the X-axis for steering seemed equally uncomfortable, especially when combined with the R-axis.

Then, a friend (who didn't play Descent) suggested that using the R for heading (replacing the rudder) would leave the X and Y more closely resembling airplane flight controls. When I tried it, it felt very natural, and I got the hang of it in minutes. The front of the stick becomes a pointing device. Just point it in the direction or attitude you want to be in. I found that actual steering became very effective using X, Y, and R all combined, making turning faster. I know that lots of folks are quite effective at this without MY stick config, but I never had to stuggle with practicing the combined movements, it just seemed natural with the config right away.

I always used a Sidewinder 3D Pro, and even though I would agree that its X-axis resolution is better than its R, I never had any resolution issues. I'll also reiterate that when I learned this approach, it was my FIRST stick. Switching over to this method after already being used to X for heading would certainly be more difficult.

Just my 2 cents.

[MD-2389]

X - left/right
Y - up/down
Z - roll
hat - slide
Button 1 - primary
Button 3 - mines
Button 4 - afterburner
Button 5 - flares

Everything else is on my KB

Using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro X3D btw.

[d3jake]

Well, My setup is a bit different, and when I describe it to people I often get a slight wow out of them...
Right hand:
Saitek ST290 pro, a stiff stick (at least my version, newer ones are much looser, can be gotten at Wal Mart for like $20)
Hat up: primary cycle
Hat down: cycle secondary
Hat left: flare
Hat right: audio taunt #2
button left of hat: audio taunt #1
button right of hat: audio taunt #3
bottom left button: primary fire
bottom middle button: secondary fire
bottom right button: audio taunt #4
Axises set like Grendel's
(The reason why I have AT's on my stick is becuase I wanted to make them do something, at teh time they were blank...
trigger: reverse

Left hand: N52
Thumb: sliding \\ bottom button also, set to swap to vauss\\MD
Pointer: AB\\Audio taunt #1
middle: swap to plasma,EMD\\swap to microwave,Nap gun
ring:counter measure\\swap to fusion,Omega
pinky:foreward\\Taunt macro #3(I think its 3...) TM#3 is set to \"TEAM: I have $$s shields, carrying $$flag(s).\" Which comes in handy....

Much different than setups set up so far, but it works for me . THe biggest trouble I had when learning it was to try and not go foreward and reverse at teh same time, after about 2-3 weeks, though I do it every now and then.
I also like having the primary weapons literally at my finger tips. Plus, its much less hard on my hat than setups that use it for sliding.

[Duper]

X - Left/Right
Y - Pitch up and down
Z (twist) - Bank

Slide is on the KB:

W- up - middle finger
X - down - middle finger
S - left - middle finger
D - right - index finger
A - forward - ring finger
Z - reverse - ring finger
Space bar - AB - thumb
L-ctrl - pinky - TS talk button
If I'm using a mouse I use Q & E as roll/bank with fingers respectively.
Hat I use for weapon, counter measuer and inventor selection.

I use this same setup in just about every game. In Ground pounders, I use the W for reload and E & Q for next and previous weapon.

[Gekko71]

...wow - great suggestions all of you - thanks a milion.

I think I've solved my biggest problem - silly me ...I WAS PLAYING SOBER!

Krom, Grendel, Duper - you were right, mapping bank to the R axis is the way to go (IMHO) ...the thing I was doing wrong was trying to remove key duplication from my KB / joystick combo. I had always banked with the KB before. Being able to bank with the stick and KB seemed redundant - so I tried changing both...big mistake. Going back to my original KB config made it a lot easier. I now go into a barrel roll with the R axis and come out of one with the KB...feels good.

Herc - I gave your idea of mapping the rudder to the R axis and banking to X axis a go - it felt suprisingly okay! If I was coming to Descent fresh, I'd probably play that way ...but the whole X=rudder thing is too strong to break. (I've been playing that way since '95)

d3jake - ...that's one wierd config but I can see it would make for interesting conbinations...

Thanks all for your help guys. I now have a much better stick that's tight as a drum and has got me barrel-roll loopy! Hopefully it should help lift me from 'fully-suck' to 'semi-suck' and eventually 'fully sick'(...whatever the hell that means)

You're all legends. Next time I'm in your hemisphere I'll buy you all a drink! (better make it an aussie beer - the stuff you yanks drink tastes like tap water to me!

[d3jake]

d3jake - ...that's one wierd config but I can see it would make for interesting conbinations...

Heh, Above all I'd recomend getting an N52, it greatly increases what you can do.

You're all legends. Next time I'm in your hemisphere I'll buy you all a drink! (better make it an aussie beer - the stuff you yanks drink tastes like tap water to me!

I'm only 17, It'd be illegal...

[Krom]

I'm only 17, It'd be illegal...

Since when does that stop anyone?

[DarkShadow]

I'm only 17, It'd be illegal...

Since when does that stop anyone?

Really

[d3jake]

'cause I follow laws

[MD-2389]

You're no fun.

[Gekko71]

...it's legal to drink in Australia from 18 ...so if you're dringking Australan beer...

[Krom]

You're no fun.

Seconded.

[Aus-RED-5]

...it's legal to drink in Australia from 18 ...so if you're dringking Australan beer...

Ummm Coopers Pale Ale .....

[DarkShadow]

You're no fun.

Seconded.

I will third that one.

[d3jake]

Short of pirating software, or downloading music illegally, I'm planning on staying legal....