D2X-XL Mission on the Making-Preliminary Version available!!

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:29 pm

Well, i've been done a D2 Mission for years that mixes the D2 atmosphere with a bit of D3 and has lots of customizations (But with D2X-XL it's much better now).

However, i hesitate a lot about showing this project to the world, 'cause first of all, it is a MOD for D2 (Custom everything: Textures, Music, Robots, Sounds, Powerups, Weapons, etc...) and what's worse, it's not developed in the original Descent world (With the PTMC, CED, Dravis and all that stuff) but instead in a new world that i make of my own (I changed the PTMC to PMC: 'Pumin Mining Corporation', it's a mining corporation created by a new country made in the earth aeons in the future from now).

But even worse than that, are the characters. They are a kind of humanoids that came to populate the Earth of the future (A planet without humans, since the human race is extinct). The PMC are in a menace from some old Alien Empire of the galaxy that wants to blast off all the facilitys of the PMC, since this corporation brings militar protection to some planets around the galaxy.

But well, enough talking. if you think all this stuff was bad, wait to see the Drawing of the characters

:

And now, waiting that you are not running away from this topic, here is the nice part:

It will be a D2X-XL 19~ level Single Player mission with colored lighting, and all that stuff (except, for some Modding limitations, hi-res textures, sorry

). As i said before, it will include customizations of everything. It's somewhat based on the D3 scheme (with a new story, of course) and it will include a prison, a city, etc... but with a more D2 feel to it, and new missions and characters

.

I will try to make also Multiplayer levels, but this MOD i'm making will be incompatible to the original D2, so everyone who wants to play my levels would need my MOD (this also prevents to play original D2 levels with my MOD, avoiding piracy issues, 'cause of the custom PIGs, HAM, Main HOG File, etc...)

And now, some screenies from the first level:

So, that's it. I think that you won't like it, but anyway, i will try to promote it

(in any case, i HOPE you like it)

PS: I Will try to make Demo Videos soon...

EDIT - Here i have more screenies:

And also some of the 30~ custom robots:

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:16 pm

The red one is the robot version of Spongebob, codename \"squarepants\", right?

Very cool announcement, I am looking forward to your stuff!

Expect my support if you need any help or (feasible) extra D2X-XL features.

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:54 pm

WOW!

Looks awesome Pumo!

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:49 pm

LOL! You're right Diedel, i've not noticed before, but in fact it looks like Spongebob

And thanks for your comments! I didn't expect that you would like it..

About support or help on D2X-XL, you've made a lot of gorgeous things on D2X-XL and also you added some things that i asked you in the past, so by this time, i'm pretty comfortable with the last version and i don't need more features right now, but anyway, thanks!

(if at some point i think of something, i will tell you Diedel, take it for sure)...

I'm planning to make a Webstie with information about this mission some time soon (and i hope to make at least an 'alpha' version for release).

BTW, i forgot to mention, the music for this mission is original (all tracks composed by me) and in OGG format for best music quality

(MIDI is so simple by now

). Also some sounds are original (made from scratch, in special the robot sounds) but a lot of 'em are borrowed from D1 or D3.

And now here it is, a video of \"Pumo Mines\" (The main name of the mission) Level 1

(The BG music is the one i composed for level 5)

Hope you like it

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:23 am

That looks really nice. The video clip is really exciting and your music fits perfectly.

Only thing I would suggest is to kind of take it easy on the colored lighting. The two whole level screenshots you showed seem to demonstrate really nice, consistent texture work. Don't bury it all under colored lighting! Colored lighting is really effective for setting the mood. Be subtle with it. If you go too crazy with it, things begin to look garish and cartoon-like.

Here's a really nice thesis about one approach to colored lighting:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki ... _design%29

Obviously, Descent doesn't have any concept of a point light as most modern games do, but the lesson is still the same. Use lights to set moods, lead the player to a point of interest, and so on.

One of the more interesting things Valve did was tie the colors of lights to the enemies in the area. The cold, alien Combine were always saturated in this uncomfortable sterile blue color. Zombies always cast in yellow. It's an interesting thing to think about.

In short, lighting can absolutely make or break a level.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:55 am

Have to agree about the music. Perfect fit.

I noticed that you used some of the guide bot sounds that you never encounter in D3. Very cool.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:58 am

OK, i will take care of level lighting also. However, there is some limitations in D2X-XL regarding OpenGL style lighting: the low saturated lights only works when they are too separated between 'em. In rooms with say, 4 lamps in each corner, the light tends to become completely white if there is no saturation. However, i'm aware of the color scheme and in some levels i will try to not saturate too much the color of the lights. If you see, i try to stick to a simple scheme to avoid mixing a lot of colors (in this level the light scheme is Blue, Cerulean and Violet. Only in the Matcen, Energy center and monitors you can see other colors)

Anyway, thanks for your comments Kyo, i will analyze more in depth all this lighting stuff

And Duper, the sounds you hear are not exactly the ones from the Guide bot of D3 (in fact, i made some sounds based on those ones, but they were recorded with my mic: it's my keyboard typing and a beep created on a synth program

)

Well, i will try to add more video clips and maybe music clips in the future... So stay tuned

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:51 am

That video is awesome.

Love what you've done sofar with the custom stuff.
Looks and fits well with everything.

How long have you been working on this project?

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:57 am

Very nice video! Obviously you are one of the people who are definitely worth doing something for them with D2X-XL (and DLE-XP).

You must have been working a long time on this already w/o ever saying a single word about it.

Did you make the lasers faster?

Re. saturation: You mean that e.g. 4 blue lights that are too close together result in white light? I would need to look in the code, but as far a I remember it, light components add up to the value of 1.0 (brightest possible light value). So if your blue (RGB) lights actually are (0.25, 0.25, 1.0), the resulting light of 4 of such light sources will be (1,1,1), i.e. white. Ofc this depends on the distance of the lights, so they shouldn't turn an entire (big) room white.

DarkFlameWolf · Post by **DarkFlameWolf** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:40 am

I think I just had an orgasm. Nice work! I simply can't wait to try this out!

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:13 am

DarkFlameWolf wrote:I think I just had an orgasm. Nice work! I simply can't wait to try this out!

You "think" you just had an orgasm?

Well, if I have an orgasm, I know it ...

ROFLMAO

DarkFlameWolf · Post by **DarkFlameWolf** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:59 am

with guys, its easy to tell. There's really only one type. Women have a variety of types, strengths, durations, intensities. Sometimes what we think was one, may or may not be one. It depends on how broad we accept varying degrees of pleasure as 'orgasm.' Regardless, I said that comment in jest, but the thought remains the same, I am truly looking forward to this set.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:19 am

Apparently enough I was joking. I could comment on the thought of someone actually having orgasms from watching Descent vids, but I'd rather not ...

Anyway, believe it or not, but there actually are signs of a woman having a real orgasm. One of them is that she is suddenly blushing because all blood vessels in her skin get wider.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:02 am

Thanks for all your comments (including the orgasm ones! LOL

)

Regarding what you say Diedel about the lighting, you're right, in big rooms there is no problem, but as you said, if i use a color that is not fully saturated in small rooms, it becames white. Here's a screen of the problem:

However, this only happens in OpenGL style lighting, and happens most in the brighter lights (ceil025, ceil035 and ceil036). It doesn't happens in standard lighting (in standard lighting the room is lighted by the most prominent color, but it doesn't
transforms to white).
And sometimes in OpenGL lighting, the light from some rooms lights the nearest rooms also (it travels through walls).

And regarding your question, i've been workin' since 2001 (the PIG modifications were the first ones), and started to make levels, music and weapons back in 2004.
I recently started to make sounds and i'm still composing
some new music and of course, making the levels.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:05 pm

Pumo wrote:Thanks for all your comments (including the orgasm ones! LOL )

You're welcome, hehe.

Maybe I should cap color values instead of adding them ... but adding them is physically correct.

Btw, I have a new name for the red robot: "Spongebot".

Did you create a new explosion blast texture?

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:06 pm

Well, i changed the explosion blast but i didn't create it. It's one of the flare effects from D3 (slightly modified). And i like the name \"spongebot\", i will use it as a codename for this bot

BTW, if you're planning on making changes on how the light adds in OpenGL, could you do it as an alternative option? i mean, if something goes wrong with the new method, it would be good if you can switch to the method that is working now.

Ah, and i've got a new idea for D2X-XL. Could you make a Fog system? Maybe you can make Fog using a texture (like the coronas). In fact, the coronas can make some kind of Fog effect (see this screenshot of Level 11 from Vertigo in version 1.9.256):

however, they fade to almost invisible when you approach them, so it doesn't works like Fog (Fog fades only a bit when you approach it, not completely)

Well, i hope this can be a feasible feature.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:01 pm

I have an idea about how to do fog ... maybe, maybe.

I have added a few options to control light color saturation in config -> render -> lighting.

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:26 am

The fog effect would be interesting to see.

[edit] Ohhhhh, I made Admiral with my 1000 post from this post!
Geez and it has taken me this long to finally get it.

[/edit]

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:50 pm

Congratulations Aus-Red!! You finally made it!!

I hope to see even more of your good posts here on the DescentBB. Keep with the good posting!

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:29 am

When Darkhorse and I were making missions of this size, it generally took us a couple years... and that was back when we had some spare time.

If you're more devoted, of course, you could finish it faster. But it is a big undertaking, so be prepared for a heavy workload.

You've done some great work with the effects already though - it looks like a Descent clone rather than the game itself. I'd be careful with the HUD though, since some of it looks a bit Photoshoppy and maybe even garish.

Nonetheless, good luck and I hope to see more of this!

P.S. Diedel - I've seen a couple of techniques used for fog - there's the Freespace 2 method, where they used a series of partially-transparent images - but that breaks down when you can see seams, and indoors that is going to happen. The other one, which I believe is more common, is to apply some kind of alpha-blending to pixels or polygons depending how far away they are... more accurate but doubtless more difficult to put in.

DarkFlameWolf · Post by **DarkFlameWolf** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:54 am

Remind me again, just how much left do you have to go on this mission set?

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:11 am

Sirius,

thanks for the hints. What's up with your SP mission? I'd *love* to see and play it!

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:03 pm

Yeah, fog would be a pretty cool addition. Everything looks better with just a touch of fog. It lends depth and mood to any scene. Maybe you could have it operate using walls/triggers (i.e. \"Set Fog\") or on a per-cube basis (though when cube concentration is high, I don't know how well that would work).

As for the lights going to white though, I think Diedel is right to call this expected behavior. Descent's engine has no sense of HDR lighting or blooming, so the brighter your lights are, the closer we approach full-bright textures, as opposed to blooming.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:59 pm

DarkWolf: Currently i have 5 complete levels done, but i'm lighting 'em again (and i'm also making some structures for another levels).
The Music is completely done and also the robots.

Kyoryuu: Now, i'm trying to do a less colorful lighting at some points like you said but using the new 'limit light saturation' option. this way if i make a corridor with bright yellowish lights, they won't turn completely white.

even if this could be a correct behaviour, it doesn't make sense when the lights are appart one from another in small rooms and all with the same color. Maybe the problem is not that the lights turn white, but the range of each of them (maybe too large even in Standard range).

Sirius: Yeap, i know if it's a hard work and that it take even years, but i think i'm doing it at a good rate right now (i'm very devoted)

And about the HUD, maybe the problem is the Ship and Shield indicator. I would try to change it to look less garish.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:35 am

I'm still slaving away at that. Well, occasionally, have to fit it in alongside my work, but in general. I do have to apologise for keeping people waiting so long... it's mostly thanks to the level being a rather awkward thing. I can only imagine what'll happen when I start trying to make OOFs work.

Pumo - there's a bit of that in the shield yes (maybe TOO much contrast there), although what I'm looking at mainly is that hyper laser image; the phantom missile looks about right per standard Descent fare, but the base of the hyper laser gun looks flat-shaded, and the blue ring on the barrel seems like it's had a quick bevel slapped on it. It may not be the case, but you want that sort of thing to *look* rendered, even if not in particularly high quality.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:29 pm

In fact, all the powerup and weapon images were rendered in Bryce 5, but maybe the problem is the color limitation (256 colors for the PIG files).

Even the Hyper Laser is a 3D rendered image, so i think it just needs some post-work. I will look into that....

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:29 am

Ahh, that would likely explain it. Perhaps there was no sufficiently close colour match to do proper shading.

I thought D2X-XL allowed higher colour depth though? Or is that only for some images/textures?

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:35 am

D2X-XL supports True color images if you put them in the textures folder, but this method doesn't works in my computer because it uses Pixel Shader and i have a GeForce 4MX (for PCI, i don't have AGP support)

However, i can put some hi-res textures inside the levels for some walls using DLE-XP and POG files (those works even without pixel shader support). Sadly, i can't edit HUD images in DLE-XP texture editor.

DarkFlameWolf · Post by **DarkFlameWolf** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:33 pm

I've still yet to see a project that has 25 levels or more other than my own Lost Levels. Yes, this project is massive in scope, but I'd still like a good quantity of levels too. The only other mission that came close was Obsidian, and that was only 18 levels.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:59 pm

DarkFlameWorlf: Don't worry, my MAIN mission is 19 levels in size, but i'm also making about 6 add-on missions for this 'Pumo Mines' project (ranging from 6 levels to 13 levels long)

This should be like 40 levels in total.

However, my main 19 level mission is my highest priority right now.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:15 pm

LOL @ the Spongebot!

I had thought of several different ways of adding fog:

Adding fog objects creating fog in a sphere with some definable radius around them). Problem: Fog may undesiredly extend into nearby, but not directly connected segments.
Making fog a segment (cube) property. Problem: I don't know how that would 'stack up'.
Adding a new segment type 'fog', pretty much like 'skybox', allowing you to place (invisible) fog segments around the visible level geometry (like skyboxes) just to define the foggy area. Problem: You may need to use several fog segments around complex geometry, again creating that 'stacking up' problem.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:26 pm

Is there a reason why basing fog on a trigger wouldn't work? That's how most games do it. Aside from making it easy to control, you can also handle transitioning in and out of fog.

The sphere is probably the least effective idea because, as you say, it could seep into other portions of the mine. It also doesn't offer too much flexibility.

DarkFlameWolf · Post by **DarkFlameWolf** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:01 pm

Pumo wrote:DarkFlameWorlf: Don't worry, my MAIN mission is 19 levels in size, but i'm also making about 6 add-on missions for this 'Pumo Mines' project (ranging from 6 levels to 13 levels long) This should be like 40 levels in total.

However, my main 19 level mission is my highest priority right now.

That's ambitious of you, I sincerely hope you don't bite off more than you can chew.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:08 am

Kyo,

can you explain to me what the difference between a fog trigger (i.e. basically an object telling the center of the fog, right?) and a sphere should be? In other words: How should I control fog so that it wouldn't seep into other parts of the mine if it extends from a trigger/object?

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:11 am

From a more level-designer perspective, I would prefer option 2, but could live with any of them.

Fog triggers are usually used to determine when to show fog, and wouldn't solve the issue of how... you'd still need to know how to \"turn on\" the fog.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:56 am

No, I mean a trigger. The same one that does Open Door, Close Door, Unlock Door, etc.

The trigger could be given the options to Enable Fog (with settings) and Disable Fog. A user could change the fog color by calling Enable Fog again off a trigger.

The main advantage to this approach is that it allows a designer to easily consolidate the fog to a given area. Say, I pass through a door into a cold-looking room with two corridors - one leading deeper into the cold area, the other returning to a warm area. A trigger at the door could quickly change the fog into an icy blue. If I go through the corridor to the warm area, I could have a trigger that changes the fog. If I go through the corridor to the cold area, I don't need to do anything.

A secondary advantage is that it allows fog to be controlled by an arbitrary number (though, in all likelihood, a handful) of triggers in a map, rather than having to be set on every cube in option 2's case. I don't know how your segment types work (are these cube settings, like energy center, reactor, etc?), but having fog on triggers would let you have fog anywhere in the map.

The level properties could also house a value to set an initial fog color on level startup.

A disadvantage to this approach, which may or may not be the case with option 2, is visualizing this fog in DLE-XP since the editor probably has no sense of how triggers would influence what fog appears where. Yet, if it was a cube property, it could determine how to render it.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:33 am

I think option 2 is the best IMHO and as Kyo says, if you add triggers to control the fog, it would be much better.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:23 pm

Diedel wrote:In other words: How should I control fog so that it wouldn't seep into other parts of the mine if it extends from a trigger/object?

Actually, I missed that part.

I don't think you could control what things look like beyond the triggers, which might be a drawback. Of course, a lot of games do function this way. They have a global "fog manager" that handles all fog in the map and applies that same fog everywhere.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:20 pm

There is one major issue with that method Kyouryuu - it would screw up cameras from other parts of the mine, such as markers, views from other players in multi, and of course D2X-XL cameras.

If that isn't a problem in certain situations (which can happen if the whole level has the same fog), then it would work though.

Edit: Actually, it could work if you store the fog value at the point each camera was created, and just render with that... of course it'd mean you'd have to run fog triggers for every player ship in the game (in case you end up watching them later), but...

Oh, there is one other issue. What if you die? How do you know what fog value to reset it to?

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:49 pm

Yeah. Doesn't work so hot when the player respawns. One forgets that most FPS games just reload the previous game state, no harm, no foul. XD

D2X-XL Mission on the Making-Preliminary Version available!!

D2X-XL Mission on the Making-Preliminary Version available!!

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