Be Very Afraid

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:27 am

Yikes

Is this a joke? I don't even know...its just...scary.

Palzon · Post by **Palzon** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:40 am

this is the coolest site ever.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:41 am

How funny is it the main character is a sheep.

I think this is more representative of the freaks in this world throughout history in regards to religion:

http://www.geocities.com/edison_hicky/christians.html

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:44 am

If you find an Atheist in your neighborhood,
TELL A PARENT OR PASTOR RIGHT AWAY!

You may be moved to try and witness to
these poor lost souls yourself, however
AVOID TALKING TO THEM!

Atheists are often very grumpy and bitter and will lash out at children or they may even try to trick you into neglecting God's Word.

Very advanced witnessing techniques are needed for these grouches. Let the adults handle them.

no comment.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:58 am

Both sites are sad -- the first, for being naive and oversimplifying things. The second, for being a nasty parody that's naive and oversimplifies things.

It's also sad the number of atheists who qualify as "freaks in this world throughout history in regards to religion", who consider it their mission to insult the religious, or to straw-man religion until it becomes sufficiently weak for them to dismiss.

Pretty sad...

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:13 pm

Had to get your "bad athiest!" jab in there didn't ya Lothar?

Lets face it, both sides are lame for critiquing eachother as much as they have, lets just leave it at that and stop pointing fingers.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:28 pm

Tyr, the jab was aimed mostly at the fact that Testi took the time to actually go find and post a parody site (that he may or may not have recognized was a parody.) I'd imagine (from his posting history) that he intended it as a knock on Christians -- that it's "representative" of the way he sees us. That's what I found sad -- it's a sad commentary on him and on the site author. (This is provided, of course, that he didn't intend it as a knock on the atheist site author.) I wouldn't have said a thing about atheists if Testi hadn't posted that. We could've spent the whole thread laughing at naive Christians, but now he's put some focus on vicious Atheists who write insulting parodies.

There are atheists I respect. The guy who wrote the site Testi linked to isn't one of them. I gave 2 descriptions of who I'm talking about -- those who (1) insult the religious and (2) straw-man religion. The guy who wrote Testi's site is clearly one of those. Those people are lame, and I think we can agree on that.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:44 pm

Aggreed Lothar.

bash · Post by **bash** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:52 pm

Heh, the three biggest Christian haters trying to troll up another anti-religion thread. What a surprise!

Dorks. Why don't you pick on the Muslims for a thread or two? Or the Jews? Yea, the Jews! They're always good for a little hate-mongering and you're just the boys to do it.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:21 pm

the three biggest Christian haters trying to troll up another anti-religion thread -Bash

If I am implied in the three, what evidence do you have that I am a Christian hater?

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:09 pm

I'm not Athiest. I don't pay attention to Athiests, because they (collectively) can hate as much as Christians can. They're just not as vocal. ie: I've never heard of an Athiest group screaming to the government for censorship because someone said a dirty word on TV or the radio, or something.

I found that site months ago when looking for something unrelated. And actually, I couldn't tell if it was a real site or not for about 20 minutes or so of reading through it, until I determined that it was impossible for one to be that bad. Or at least, to be that bad, and have the knowledge to get it online.

I rag on religion only because it's so hypocritical, and the majority of people in it are even more so, and only paying it lip service.

Lastly, I said 'the freaks of religion' not 'the Christians'. That site just happened to be about Christians. It would be just as funny to me if it were written against another denomination (Proper word?)

Whip out the Jew thread! I'll laugh at any religion.

Cut off a piece of your dick for Jesus! Or something...

I actually have a random curiosity about religions in general and in specifics, but there's no one around that's sane enough to ask and get logical, constructive answers. That, and I'm terribly inarticulate. I don't think in words (I'm not much for talking in general), and do not express my ideas clearly, even after I edit the post 15 times. Unless it's technical, then I'm somewhat OK.

Darkside Heartless · Post by **Darkside Heartless** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:24 pm

the three biggest Christian haters trying to troll up another anti-religion thread -Bash

Ever notice Christianity is the only religion it's politicly correct to put down?

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:28 pm

Just like Caucasian is the only race that's politically correct to put down.

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:23 pm

Meathead wrote:Ever notice Christianity is the only religion it's politicly correct to put down?

Hardly. More like most of the people you're surrounded by have had most of the experience with that particular thing. It's hard to rag on something when you're not exposed to it.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:39 pm

Testiculese wrote:I'm not Athiest. I don't pay attention to Athiests, because they (collectively) can hate as much as Christians can. They're just not as vocal. ie: I've never heard of an Athiest group screaming to the government for censorship because someone said a dirty word on TV or the radio, or something.

"...one nation, under God, indivisable..."

(not that I disagree with your point

)

bash · Post by **bash** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:44 pm

So we have no exposure to Muslims? Seems to me they should be high on the hit parade for religion haters considering how recently the Religion of Peace murdered 3,000 of our countrymen. You haters need to get with the times. Christian bashing is soooo pre-2001.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:51 pm

Anwser my question, Bash.

bash · Post by **bash** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:52 pm

Answer your mail, Goob.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:55 pm

i'm not a christian hater, but my respect for them is fading...(assuming this site is a real christian site and not a parody, can anyone prove either way?)

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:08 pm

One Christian does not speak for all Christians! People must realize this somewhere. I'm a Catholic, which is the predominant sect of Christianity, and by far the most institutionalized. Collectively, Protestants (which include groups people typically think of as Bible-thumpers like Southern Baptists, etc.) outnumber Catholics. But Christianity is fragmented enough that just because someone who is a practicing Christian says something, doesn't mean that he/she speaks for all Christians, but also doesn't mean that he/she is not telling the absolute truth about their beliefs.

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:38 pm

I'm pretty sure Beo's site is a parody, though I sure can't find anything on the site that says so, or any links back to a parent organization. But the site itself is enough to convince me that it is.

On the 4kidz page Beo linked, the puzzles seem intended to teach kids not to be late to church, to consider marriage an important social obligation, to make fun of other religions, and to avoid atheists. These are values that people outside of Christianity perceive Christians as holding, not values Christians themselves consciously hold and teach. While those values are close in practice to the way things are in some churches, they certainly aren't what Christians would conscously choose to teach to kids. Were the site genuine, the focus in the kids' section would be on memorizing Bible verses or learning Bible stories, or canonical moral lessons like "obey your parents."

In particular, the warning that "very advanced witnessing techniques" are needed to handle atheists seems more likely intended to stoke the ego of an atheist running the site than it is a likely Christian message--I don't know of any Christians who consider Atheists tougher nuts to crack than Jews, Muslims, Mormons, People Who Don't Care, or African Tribesman. But I have interacted with atheists who perceive themselves as an amazing threat to Christianity that no Christian can deal with--so that comment seems more likely to come out of atheist culture than any corner of Christian culture I'm familiar with. (No offense intended to atheists, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, People Who Don't Care, or African Tribesman in present company... )

Parts of the site are a little to anxious to poke fun at themselves. The Creation Science Facts section is a little quick to link to the most rediculous pieces of creation science, and the kangaroo testifying about how he remained in Palestine after the flood even though his relatives all wound up in Australia seems more calculated to sound silly in light of the fact that there aren't kangaroos in Palestine than it appears intended to teach anything.

I looked pretty hard through the site to see if it would give itself away as a parody site, but the closest I found was the fake-looking "members" page. Most church staff people probably wouldn't go by nicknames like " 'Diamond' Jack Holgroth " on a page like that, and I'm pretty sure at least one of the names--"Dr. Richard Paley"--is a joke, playing off of William Paley. And the email addresses are definitely made up, what with every one on a different domain like ilovejesus.net, pastors.com, occultmail.com, and baptistmail.net. And I swear some of those staff portraits look familiar, though I sure can't place them...

Granted, parody is funny because it hits close to home. The part of the site that claims to be up in arms about how many nails were used in the crucifixion seems pretty wild, and is surely intended to poke fun at Christians who are overly defensive of cherished doctrines. But it's sadly not that farfetched, either. I've heard of real churches dividing over the color of the hymnals (and what it symbolically meant).

It's sad for me to read because it's a such a terrible distortion of what I know Christian life and values to be like. But it's sad, too, because it's got some truth to it. Creation science really can be pretty silly; Christians really can get up in arms about silly points; there are really are people out there who think drinking, Halloween, make-up, or what-have-you are against God. "Christian culture" is distinctively unchristian in a lot of ways, sometimes--I guess that grieves me as much in real life as it does in parody. While a lot of it was over the top and badly distorted, there was a grain of truth to a lot of it, too. *sigh*

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:53 pm

Dispite its anti-Christian target, the "Kidz artwork gallery" gave me a chuckle.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:56 am

Bash?

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:17 am

bash's comment wasn't that hard to figure out... if you weren't one of the first 3 people to post, it's not intended to be about you. If you are one of the first 3 people to post, take it up with him.

Testi, I'm still not entirely clear on what you think that site is "representative" of. Is it representative of the freakiest of Christians, or of the freakiest of anti-Christians, or some combination? (I've met some pretty freaky Christians, but I've never met any even close to like that -- but if you mean "representative" like a caricature rather than like a typical Christian, then I can see how that might qualify.)

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:49 am

First off, I am not a "Christian Hater" by any means of the imagination. Though I am not a Christian myself, the teachings and story of Christ are extremely interesting to me and I respect them, because in all honesty if everyone lived by those standards (I don't mean if everyone was Christian, I just mean if everyone followed the teachings like forgiveness and kindness, etc) the world would be a lot better place.

That being said, I have tremendous respect for Lothar and Drakona (even though she offended my African Tribesman heritage

), whom are extremely well-knowledged and make very valid arguments no matter what they're debating. So as far as that is concerned, I was not trying to disrespect anybody or any teaching.

I just happened to stumble across this site while surfing a joke site (oddtodd.com) that had it listed as a link. Like I said, I don't know if this Christian site is a parody or not, but I was pretty sure it was because it fits all the supposed stereotypes of the "sheltered, easily manipulated Christian sheep/lemming"

It's not like anyone is going to read this and think its a legit Christian site, or think differently of Christian people because of this stupid site. I just posted it because it was weird, and wanted to see what you guys thought about it.
You have to admit, the site is pretty scary

look at that sheep...it's so happy...it's gotta be high or somethin.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:33 pm

I didn't really read what Paly said and the next 3 which included me were the only ones who said anything other then "That site is cool" in relation to the actual topic.

Mine was directed towards Lothar's post which seemed to view all athiests as of the same mentality much the same that most athiests view Christians the same way. Which is why I said what I said.

It just seemed to me his statement was the exact same thing he was critiquing against and that both sides do too much finger pointing anyways so....

That is why I thought Bash's comment applied to me.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:28 am

drak, cut out the 4kidz part and you'll head to the parent site.

here's part of what i got off the parent site under cult alert.

this is no parody.. it's as real as a brick wall.

s he tells it, while out at a local supermarket shopping for food for his cat, Dr. Franklin noticed one of those small tents advertising "Free Rock Chip Repair" that have been springing up in our nation's parking lots. Curious, he went to enquire about getting a ding in his windshield sealed, only to learn that the person manning the tent had other intentions, namely to try and recruit Dr. Franklin into a cult!

i don't know about you but i find that disturbing.

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:36 am

No, I read the non-kids part--that's where I saw the members page and the doctrinal disputes. I'm pretty sure it's a parody site.

Like... the next paragraph of the one you quoted--

Fortunately, the good doctor has become quite immune to cultic recruiting ploys from his years studying their tactics, and thus he was able to extricate himself from the situation with his soul unharmed. However, those less skilled in their Faith -- and especially those of false faiths or no faith at all -- would have soon found themselves back at the cult headquarters doing all manner of unspeakable rites and blasphemies... or maybe even brainwashed into manning a tent of their own.

Yeah, I don't know what to tell you, if that isn't obviously making fun of itself in your eyes. Watch out! If you aren't skilled in your faith, you'll end up back at cult headquarters taking part in all manner of unspeakable rites and blasphemies! And brainwashed! Demons! Demons! Bad Things!!! Run awaaaaaaaaaay!!

I sure don't know any Christians who are afraid of "cultic recruiting ploys," or who consider encounters of those sorts things to be feared. Except the ones that are still in junior high or so, I guess. Probably more than anything else, that makes me sure it's a parody site--it portrays Christians as considering their own faith fragile and flimsy, and unable to withstand the least encounter with opposing views. That just ain't so. Quite the opposite, even very naive Christians tend to consider others' beliefs fragile and flimsy, and expect them to dissolve at the least mention of Jesus and his deeds.

However, Christians can be pretty skittish about cults in other ways, or about things that are bad moral influences, and that's probably what that's making fun of.

The church I grew up in had some pretty skittish Christians in it, actually. One family I know didn't own a television, on principle. Another found Star Trek too objectionble to watch. My own family had pretty strict rules about video games that had violence or blood in them, banning the likes of Starcraft and Scorched Earth from the house (which, btw, is why I'm a Descent player--it was deemed non-violent. To which I can only say, 'heh'

It's just a good thing I never picked up D3--'napalm' would not have gone over well with my mom! ). And there really are Christians in the world--quite a lot of them, in fact--who think Halloween is a holiday with pagan origins and demonic overtones, that they shouldn't participate in. For that reason, a lot of churches hold parties on that night as a substitute, where kids can still dress up and get candy so they don't feel left out.

The point is, Christians can have a strong fear or dislike of things that most non-Christians find harmless--and I suspect that a lot of the site, including what you quoted, is making fun of that. Some of those restrictions really are irrational, and the fun is warranted (though it's sort of in bad taste--like making fun of someone who's a vegetarian on principle). But some restrictions really are warranted, for the sake of moral purity. Younger (and sometimes older!) Christians have often gotten confused on what's what, a phenomenon that's as old as Christianity itself. In fact, there's a chapter in the Bible about it. It warns older Christians who know certain things are harmless not to hurt or discourage the younger ones who mistakenly reject something on principle. (The chapter is Romans 14)

The site makes fun of some of the skittish things Christians do in parody--and I guess that's kind of deserved, they do some funny stuff. But it also doesn't draw a distinction between that and the legitimate restrictions--it seems to think it's all rediculous. That's where it stops being funny and starts being sad, I suppose. And how you can tell it isn't a Christian making fun of Christianity, but somebody outside who doesn't understand quite what's going on.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:48 pm

The more I read through the site, and some of the posts here. I am pretty convinced that it isn't real.

Christians don't say things like, in the section telling you how to draw the lamb.

Also draw my curl. It should spiral the same direction as a 6, because that's how many days God took to create EVERYTHING ...On the seventh step, rest and pray to God! Thank Him for giving you the ability to draw me!

Further under, "Kidz Crafts," they teach you how to make a "Crucifixion nail." Not very many would find making the nail tasteful for little kidz, especially not Mormons.

Make a nail just like the ones used by the Romans to crucify Our Lord. A thought-provoking project that will impress upon your children the suffering that Jesus went through on their behalf. Makes a great Christmas ornament!

I dunno about you guys, but I never made really sharp objects that could poke someones eye out in artz and craft. Nor would any catholic in my family use a Crusifixion nail as a christmas ornament.

Also, under the kidz artwork,

Michael, age 11, drew what I will look like when I grow up
and become a pastor! I will bring the Good News
to purple octopuses! I can't wait!

Further down they say,

"Look how excited T-Rex is to be riding on Noah's Ark!
I would be too!"

"What is Black and White and Red all over?
The Bible! We can read it's facts in black and white
and it's red with the blood that Jesus spilled
on the Cross because of His Love for us!"

I think the intent of the website is to make nonbelievers say, "holy ★■◆● what freaks."

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:54 pm

Drakona wrote:I'm pretty sure Beo's site is a parody, though I sure can't find anything on the site that says so, or any links back to a parent organization. But the site itself is enough to convince me that it is.

this is the reason why i thought it wasnt a parody. i know alot of religious people who could have wrote that site. i know not all christians speak for all christians, but you cant deny that reading something like that from a fellow christian makes you weep a little inside.

there are people in this world that will use this site on their children, whether its a parody or not.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:42 pm

Be it hoax or not, that website just gives me the creeps. I sure hope it's a hoax, because I would find it truly sad to know there are people like that out there.

Gooberman wrote:
Make a nail just like the ones used by the Romans to crucify Our Lord. A thought-provoking project that will impress upon your children the suffering that Jesus went through on their behalf. Makes a great Christmas ornament!
I dunno about you guys, but I never made really sharp objects that could poke someones eye out in artz and craft. Nor would any catholic in my family use a Crusifixion nail as a christmas ornament.

Actually Gooberman, we have a nail ornament on our Christmas tree. Of course, it isn't sharp and deadly like the one on the site

. It's supposed to be hidden on an inside branch to serve as a reminder of the Crucifixion. Note that I am Catholic and share few to no beliefs of the wackos on that site

. I just found Gooberman's post ironic, considering that I have a similar Christmas ornament to the one they have instructions on making.

MehYam · Post by **MehYam** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:54 pm

bash wrote:So we have no exposure to Muslims? Seems to me they should be high on the hit parade for religion haters considering how recently the Religion of Peace murdered 3,000 of our countrymen. You haters need to get with the times. Christian bashing is soooo pre-2001.

Talk to some East Indian ex-pats and you'll see dislike (and fear) of Islam... I think there's validity to the claim that you have to grow up around something to develop a 'thing' about it.

For instance, where I grew there almost no jews - zero. In my teens when we finally bumped into some antisemitism, it seemed odd and ridiculous to us...

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:36 pm

wow, I've jsut never heard of that tradition before, half of my family is catholic. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it still seems a little morbid to me.

Are they 9 inch full blown nails? Or just a little paper decoration?

Phoenix Red · Post by **Phoenix Red** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:14 am

ROTFLMAO

That's hilarious. Especialy the Giraffe's fun facts. Flood-cloud-related-rickets... LOL.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:54 am

kur, lemme give you a little analogy:

You and me are both pretty good Descent players. We know the game inside and out, we know the weapons, we know the dogfight techniques, we know the way lag behaves, etc. We also know the way newbies approach the game, and the way sucky pilots approach the game, and we can pretty much tell what sort of pilot someone is if they post very much about the game. We can tell the difference between a n00b and a veteran, between a dogfighter and a rat, between a D1 player and a D3 player, and so on, just from what they say. Noobs and veterans tend to fill in subtle details in different ways, and so do the others. I can tell if someone is a Quake player who's only played Descent a couple of times and is trying to sound like they play a lot -- they fill in details about lag very differently from people who've played Descent a lot and just suck at it. I can tell a D2 player from a D1 player by the subtle details in their comparisons of lasers to plasma, even if they never say anything about burners. I can tell a dogfighter from a rat by the way they talk about certain weapons or certain levels. Sometimes it's something so subtle I couldn't tell you exactly what gave it away -- but we're probably both quite capable of recognizing different pilot types just from what they write.

With Christian websites, I think I have that level of expertise -- if I read a Christian website, I can tell if it's written by Catholics or Protestants, and I can probably even identify what set of denominations it might have come out of. More than that, I can usually tell the level of education the authors have had, and I can tell whether their mistakes are because they're misled, uneducated, or just careless writers. I can usually recognize what sort of expertise the author has -- whether they deal with a lot of Atheists, Muslims, JW's, or whatever. My wife and I will usually read a single article on a website and we'll both have the same impression -- that, for example, it was written by a fairly smart Baptist who deals with a lot of JW's, but who isn't careful to differentiate between salvation and sanctification. All that is to say, I know what Christian websites from all over the map read like.

Now, Beo's website doesn't read like any of those. It doesn't read like any denomination, any level of education, any type of focus that I've ever seen. What it reads like is a fake -- it reads like it was written by an atheist (not just "a nonChristian" but "an atheist") as satire, based on arguments or ideas they've seen from real Christian sites. A lot of the way details are filled in -- for example, with the "if you see an atheist, get help" thing -- are things Christians (even the genuinely stupid or misled types) wouldn't write that way. They're things atheists would write if they were trying to sound like Christians. They're using Christian terminology and arguing about the sort of things Christians would argue about (though the 3-nail thing is pretty silly), but I get a strong sense of an atheist worldview through it.

I don't know if I could point out exactly what makes me think the site is a parody (Drak did some of that, though, and I mostly agree) -- but I can tell you with about 99.8% certainty that it is a parody. It's some fairly good satire, but it *is* satire.

Reading a site like that from a fellow Christian wouldn't make me weep inside -- not if it read like it was actually from a fellow Christian. It'd probably make me giggle a little bit, and move on. So I'm not saying it's a parody because I'm afraid of looking bad or being embarrassed by my fellow Christians -- I'm saying it's a parody because I so strongly get the "parody" vibe from it. I've read a lot of Christian sites and a lot of posts by totally misled or uneducated or unarticulate Christians, but that site is pretty clearly not from any of those perspectives.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:05 am

you know, that actually made sense to me.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:24 am

Lothar, sometimes you surprise me with a totally lucid, cognizant post (just don't let this go to your head)

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:54 am

Dude I just noticed there's a mouse-over animation on the lamb's head at the top of the page...CREEPY!!

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:13 am

its not just mouse over, u can click it for something different.

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:37 pm

JESUS <3 ME!!!!! AHHHHHHHH