I just do whatever the situation calls for.
If I have to mix it up outside and provide a distraction, i'm all over that. Same with playing defense, wingman, pure offence or just roaming and killing.
CTF Rant
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Lothar
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More CTF goodness:
1) the \"keyboard\" icon does not make you invuln. If you're in my base and typing, I will kill you, because I don't want you to finish typing and then grab my flag. If you're in your base and typing, I will kill you, because I don't want you to finish typing and then stop me from grabbing your flag. Even if I don't particularly want to kill you, there's a good chance you're going to absorb some of my shots because I'm busy attacking someone else and you're in the way. If you're the guy who was typing, don't whine, just respawn and keep playing.
2) If you join a game and you make it an uneven number of players (5v4, 4v3, etc.) please join the losing team, except in certain rare cases. It's also acceptable to sit in observer mode (especially if it's 2v1 or 3v2) until another player joins. Do not join the winning team unless you've got a really, really good reason.
3) If enough people leave to make one team go up by 2 players (6v4, 4v2, etc.) someone from the team with more players should switch, except, again, in certain rare cases. If you think the other player might come back, switch anyway... you can always switch back when they return.
4) If you're going to take a break longer than just a few seconds, please do not just sit in observer mode or sit in a spawn point. Leave the game. That way, you won't clog up a spot, and you won't make it look like 4v3 when it's really 4v2. You can always come back when you're done with your break, unless the game is full -- in which case, the person who took your spot is grateful for the opportunity to play, and your team is grateful that they weren't one player short while you were gone.
5) Please do not sit in the game typing about whatever issue is on your mind. We don't need to hear about how you're thinking about a new computer, how you hate people from a particular political party, or how much fun it was to go to Kansas last weekend. We have the DBB for that sort of discussion. Your teammates are out there trying to win; help them out. (If a game just finished, it's OK to type GG and such before the next game starts. If you're on voice chat and keep flying, chat away about whatever the people in the channel want to hear.)
6) If you're one of those players of Krom's caliber who loves playing anarchy in CTF, please split up from other players doing the same thing. It's incredibly lame to join a halcy game where one whole team is trying to make flag runs, and the other team is 4 tanks sitting in the middle just racking up the kills. Split the \"anarchy\" guys 2 and 2, and play anarchy against each other while the rest of us fight for the flags.
7) more generally, please try to make teams that will play fairly competitive games. Krom, warpig, Grendel, and Slowboy vs. bettina, some guy from Russia playing on 56k, Koolbear's kid, and some new guy who doesn't appear to know how to slide... just isn't an interesting game. Sometimes you just can't help it, one team is going to be better than than the other (and sometimes it only takes a tiny difference in skill or strategy to make a game go 20-2 instead of 20-18.) But when the game is obviously completely unbalanced, switch it up.
8) even if you're not particularly interested in capturing the flag, do like Krom said and go after your opponents. Park your tank in their base and rack up the kills. Don't just sit back in your own base and go 20-1 over the course of 45 minutes.
1) the \"keyboard\" icon does not make you invuln. If you're in my base and typing, I will kill you, because I don't want you to finish typing and then grab my flag. If you're in your base and typing, I will kill you, because I don't want you to finish typing and then stop me from grabbing your flag. Even if I don't particularly want to kill you, there's a good chance you're going to absorb some of my shots because I'm busy attacking someone else and you're in the way. If you're the guy who was typing, don't whine, just respawn and keep playing.
2) If you join a game and you make it an uneven number of players (5v4, 4v3, etc.) please join the losing team, except in certain rare cases. It's also acceptable to sit in observer mode (especially if it's 2v1 or 3v2) until another player joins. Do not join the winning team unless you've got a really, really good reason.
3) If enough people leave to make one team go up by 2 players (6v4, 4v2, etc.) someone from the team with more players should switch, except, again, in certain rare cases. If you think the other player might come back, switch anyway... you can always switch back when they return.
4) If you're going to take a break longer than just a few seconds, please do not just sit in observer mode or sit in a spawn point. Leave the game. That way, you won't clog up a spot, and you won't make it look like 4v3 when it's really 4v2. You can always come back when you're done with your break, unless the game is full -- in which case, the person who took your spot is grateful for the opportunity to play, and your team is grateful that they weren't one player short while you were gone.
5) Please do not sit in the game typing about whatever issue is on your mind. We don't need to hear about how you're thinking about a new computer, how you hate people from a particular political party, or how much fun it was to go to Kansas last weekend. We have the DBB for that sort of discussion. Your teammates are out there trying to win; help them out. (If a game just finished, it's OK to type GG and such before the next game starts. If you're on voice chat and keep flying, chat away about whatever the people in the channel want to hear.)
6) If you're one of those players of Krom's caliber who loves playing anarchy in CTF, please split up from other players doing the same thing. It's incredibly lame to join a halcy game where one whole team is trying to make flag runs, and the other team is 4 tanks sitting in the middle just racking up the kills. Split the \"anarchy\" guys 2 and 2, and play anarchy against each other while the rest of us fight for the flags.
7) more generally, please try to make teams that will play fairly competitive games. Krom, warpig, Grendel, and Slowboy vs. bettina, some guy from Russia playing on 56k, Koolbear's kid, and some new guy who doesn't appear to know how to slide... just isn't an interesting game. Sometimes you just can't help it, one team is going to be better than than the other (and sometimes it only takes a tiny difference in skill or strategy to make a game go 20-2 instead of 20-18.) But when the game is obviously completely unbalanced, switch it up.
8) even if you're not particularly interested in capturing the flag, do like Krom said and go after your opponents. Park your tank in their base and rack up the kills. Don't just sit back in your own base and go 20-1 over the course of 45 minutes.
Re:
Oh really ? Then why did you say "nice typekill" to me the other day ?Lothar wrote:1) the "keyboard" icon does not make you invuln. If you're in my base and typing, I will kill you, because I don't want you to finish typing and then grab my flag. If you're in your base and typing, I will kill you, because I don't want you to finish typing and then stop me from grabbing your flag. Even if I don't particularly want to kill you, there's a good chance you're going to absorb some of my shots because I'm busy attacking someone else and you're in the way. If you're the guy who was typing, don't whine, just respawn and keep playing.
Just for the record -- in CTF, if you are on the other team I'll kill you if I can regardless of the circumstances. If you type in-game, be prepared to die. I am.That doesn't work in all circumstances, the teams might just have gotten reshuffled and even if you join the losing team you may actually heavily unballance the teams. I've seen that quite a few times. Please always look who's where and don't solely decide on the score.Lothar wrote:2) If you join a game and you make it an uneven number of players (5v4, 4v3, etc.) please join the losing team, except in certain rare cases. It's also acceptable to sit in observer mode (especially if it's 2v1 or 3v2) until another player joins. Do not join the winning team unless you've got a really, really good reason.
Again, please don't switch if the other team has very strong players. Encourage someone else to switch, preferably someone who will keep the teams skills similar.Lothar wrote:3) If enough people leave to make one team go up by 2 players (6v4, 4v2, etc.) someone from the team with more players should switch, except, again, in certain rare cases. If you think the other player might come back, switch anyway... you can always switch back when they return.
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Foil
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Gren & Lothar, I think you both are right on the money... the (generally-stated) principles for CTF here are:
1. Keep the teams balanced. (i.e. \"Have the balls to join the losing team if needed.\")
2. Things that have no place in CTF: non-playing players, complaining about typekills, players who are in just to rack up kills
1. Keep the teams balanced. (i.e. \"Have the balls to join the losing team if needed.\")
2. Things that have no place in CTF: non-playing players, complaining about typekills, players who are in just to rack up kills
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Krom
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I think I need to clarify something about the way I play anarchy in CTF.
When you say a player is in CTF just to rack up kills, odds are you are thinking about the players that only camp in the base, snipe with MD from long range, and otherwise avoid conflict unless their team has an absolute advantage over the other team. That isn't playing to rack up kills, that is playing to rack up efficiency, the two are very different things and one is way more useful to a team than the other.
Someone playing for efficiency will be careful and guarded at all times, they will hang back in ambush and always try to maintain a situation where they have an inherit advantage over their targets. To them, not dieing is just as valuable as killing the enemy which is why they camp.
When I play I am playing exactly to rack up kills, I'm not playing for efficiency, I am playing for Kills Per Hour. I simply want to run rampant and kill as much as possible. I rush at the enemy with reckless abandon and impatience that gets me killed a lot more than most defensive players. I like to run into a base and slaughter all the defenders, I get a kick out of plunging several encamped players on a defense team into total mayhem. I love shattering a bunch of defenders carefully sculpted over time stats and I feed off their frustration.
I also especially like to hunt down the carriers, when someone runs from me it just makes me want to chase after and catch them in the worst way. The more they run the more I want to catch them. The satisfaction of chasing down a particularly slippery carrier and returning the flag is so good I can taste it. Even in anarchy, when someone ran from me, I was overwhelmingly compelled to chase them. I guess I just have that kind of twisted slasher movie personality.
It isn't exactly perfect coordinated team play, but it means I will be attracted to where the most action is and will usually be of use to whatever team I am on.
When you say a player is in CTF just to rack up kills, odds are you are thinking about the players that only camp in the base, snipe with MD from long range, and otherwise avoid conflict unless their team has an absolute advantage over the other team. That isn't playing to rack up kills, that is playing to rack up efficiency, the two are very different things and one is way more useful to a team than the other.
Someone playing for efficiency will be careful and guarded at all times, they will hang back in ambush and always try to maintain a situation where they have an inherit advantage over their targets. To them, not dieing is just as valuable as killing the enemy which is why they camp.
When I play I am playing exactly to rack up kills, I'm not playing for efficiency, I am playing for Kills Per Hour. I simply want to run rampant and kill as much as possible. I rush at the enemy with reckless abandon and impatience that gets me killed a lot more than most defensive players. I like to run into a base and slaughter all the defenders, I get a kick out of plunging several encamped players on a defense team into total mayhem. I love shattering a bunch of defenders carefully sculpted over time stats and I feed off their frustration.
I also especially like to hunt down the carriers, when someone runs from me it just makes me want to chase after and catch them in the worst way. The more they run the more I want to catch them.
The satisfaction of chasing down a particularly slippery carrier and returning the flag is so good I can taste it. Even in anarchy, when someone ran from me, I was overwhelmingly compelled to chase them. I guess I just have that kind of twisted slasher movie personality. It isn't exactly perfect coordinated team play, but it means I will be attracted to where the most action is and will usually be of use to whatever team I am on.
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Lothar
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Re:
About the only circumstance in which I say anything about getting typekilled is if we've just finished a game and I'm typing "GG" and someone shoots me. I don't remember the circumstances of the particular typekill you're referencing, but I expect typing will get me typekilled, and I treat it as a chance to come back with 100 shields.Grendel wrote:Then why did you say "nice typekill" to me the other day ? :P
However, I'm not above whining just to get under someone's skin or to get someone busy typing a response to me so I can fly past them and steal their flag. It may have been a scenario like that.
That's why I made the point that there are exceptions. Those who know enough to be able to see when the winning team is actually the weaker team probably already understand the exception.That doesn't work in all circumstances, the teams might just have gotten reshuffled and even if you join the losing team you may actually heavily unballance the teams.Lothar wrote:2) If you join a game and you make it an uneven number of players (5v4, 4v3, etc.) please join the losing team, except in certain rare cases. It's also acceptable to sit in observer mode (especially if it's 2v1 or 3v2) until another player joins. Do not join the winning team unless you've got a really, really good reason.
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Foil
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Well, tonight's games were yet another perfect example of this.
The team with the Pheenies running and Pyros moving up quickly out of their base...
And the team with the three tanks playing defense...
Hmm, guess who won 12-1? Need I even say?
Oh, and the 1 for the losing team? Happened during one of the three times was when two of those three tanks moved up to press the other team back.
To me it's clear as day. You can't win CTF without playing forward, and controlling at least the middle!
The team with the Pheenies running and Pyros moving up quickly out of their base...
And the team with the three tanks playing defense...
Hmm, guess who won 12-1? Need I even say?
Oh, and the 1 for the losing team? Happened during one of the three times was when two of those three tanks moved up to press the other team back.
To me it's clear as day. You can't win CTF without playing forward, and controlling at least the middle!
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Foil
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Re:
Thanks! My point was that I couldn't have done it without the forward cover of my team, though. Alone (as me and the other flag runner often were), we got zilch.Lothar wrote:That 1 capture was a brilliant run on your part, too.
Yep, a heavily defensive team can keep the opponent from scoring for a while, but you can bet they're not gonna score.Lothar wrote:Those 3 tanks kept it at 2-0 for a while, but once we found a crack or two in the defense, the game suddenly broke open.
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BUBBALOU
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I was in that game for a bit...all I could say was OMFG
Red Team just sat in the base collecting goodies and making themselves mini spew farms.
Even worse one of these mini spew farm junkies named \"a beginner\", MD'd me in the rear when I disrupted his journey gobbling powerups and doing nothing but being useless. ROFLZ so sad
Technically teams were unbalanced IMHO, even though there were players on both teams it was really 5 on 1 --- 5 on 2 when I was in there
Red Team just sat in the base collecting goodies and making themselves mini spew farms.
Even worse one of these mini spew farm junkies named \"a beginner\", MD'd me in the rear when I disrupted his journey gobbling powerups and doing nothing but being useless. ROFLZ so sad
Technically teams were unbalanced IMHO, even though there were players on both teams it was really 5 on 1 --- 5 on 2 when I was in there
I seem to have a better workout dodging your stupidity than attempting to grasp the weight of your intelligence.
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Foil
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Hey, I'll take a good aggressive Anarchy-playing teammate anyday. Krom, drop in and join us in CTF sometime. You'll love how many ripe-for-the-killing players just sit in their weapons cache waiting for powerups. 
Once in a while, when there are other good flag-runners on my team, I'll play that way myself... it's definitely fun, and a good way to keep opposing players occupied.
What I'm ranting about are the ones who are playing for stats by waiting around, camping, looking only to up their efficiency. Hell, I could get 80%+ efficiency in CTF that way, too... but at the expense of my team I'm not going to.
Once in a while, when there are other good flag-runners on my team, I'll play that way myself... it's definitely fun, and a good way to keep opposing players occupied.What I'm ranting about are the ones who are playing for stats by waiting around, camping, looking only to up their efficiency. Hell, I could get 80%+ efficiency in CTF that way, too... but at the expense of my team I'm not going to.
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Lothar
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Re:
But it is nice to have a level at least a little more complicated than Veins.Kilarin wrote:Real complicated levels are great for anarchy, but when playing CTF, a complicated level can subtract from the fun.
Glasshouse, for example, is an EXCELLENT level for CTF.
Re:
Also keep in mind that the level from which it derived (Veins) was a Monsterball level.Strife wrote:I hate VV. Its to flat of a level. Sure its got hills and crap... A few large rooms... But its the worst level ever made IMO.
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Lothar
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Tora Bora CTF is bizarre... one team spawns all on the energy side and the other spawns all on the weapon side. You can move immediately to the offensive OR defensive ends.
If you're a flag runner in there, you often have a clear path down the side where your team spawns.
Glasshouse is one of my favorite CTF levels. You can't just sit back with cams and MD people on defense. And you can't just take a skippy, grab the flag, and outrun everyone across the level. You have to outfight AND outthink your opponents.
If you're a flag runner in there, you often have a clear path down the side where your team spawns.
Glasshouse is one of my favorite CTF levels. You can't just sit back with cams and MD people on defense. And you can't just take a skippy, grab the flag, and outrun everyone across the level. You have to outfight AND outthink your opponents.
