I got a Seatbelt ticket...

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:32 pm

While wearing my seatbelt. Saw a guy speak into his lapel while he's leaning on the bridge rail and thought wow thats a Cop, sure enough there is a checkstop with 8 vehicles pulled over. I stop and the Officer says, \" We are checking for seatbelts\" I say, \"Mine is always on and pull out my shoulder belt with my thumb\" He says, We have an Officer that swears you didn't\" and handed me a ticket. Three points, $115.00, and jacked insurance rates, or two Court days minimum to fight the ticket. I'm fighting as I was wearing a dark black leather jacket and my seatbelts are also dark grey.

I'm thinking of painting a fluorescent pink middle finger on my shoulder belt and prancing around the Cop station one day. Theres a car wash, deli, my storage units, recycling, all in the neighborhood. Either get a good laugh or Tasered.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:01 pm

If you honestly feel that this was mistaken identity then fight the ticket. Just tell the judge the truth and let him decide who to believe. Make sure you can tell them what you were wearing, the normal position of your seat belt on your shoulder and the colour of the belt. Wouldn't hurt to have a reference from someone that normally drives with you sworn before a notary that you usually wear your belt.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:45 pm

no no it's not mistaken identity. It's the fact the cop couldn't tell the difference between a black jacket and the belt.

I mean if you were 50+ feet away, would you be able to tell a black strip from something else that was black? I don't think so.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:01 pm

Also, HTF does he see that when you are driving 50+mph?

I'd fight it.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:18 pm

Ford Prefect wrote:Just tell the judge the truth and let him decide who to believe.

He'll believe whatever makes him the most money. Why do you think the cop was up there in the first place?

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:44 pm

I think Ford's advice is spot-on. Fight the ticket. Be pleasant and courteous in the court. Bring a photograph showing how you looked in the car with the jacket and seat belt on. A witness or affidavit attesting to your seat belt wearing habit is good. Show the judge that you can stand up for your rights and still be a nice guy.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:55 pm

x2 Being professional and factual (but brief!) with the judge has worked for me in the past.

With the hordes of upset people either complaining or arguing with them, I always got the impression that judges typically respond much better to those who present their case quickly and cohesively, with some actual evidence.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:00 pm

dissent wrote:Bring a photograph showing how you looked in the car with the jacket and seat belt on.

How in the world is he going to get that?

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:10 pm

Possibly the easist ticket to fight

The cop that signed and issued the ticket was not the same cop that saw you without the belt.

In fact, the cop that signed and issued the ticket saw you only with the belt on.

So, when you contest the ticket, the cop that signed the ticket will show up at the court, not the cop that didn't see your belt.

Now, this cop can only testify to what he saw, and not what the other cop said over the radio (that would be hearsay, and therefore inadmissible).

What this means is no witnesses, no ticket. You win.

I would try this approach first if only the one cop shows up.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:42 pm

if the Queen's console doesn't show up(probably not likely, but you'll never know) you can just ask to have the case dismissed for cause.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:41 am

Ferno wrote:
dissent wrote:Bring a photograph showing how you looked in the car with the jacket and seat belt on.
How in the world is he going to get that?

1)get a friend
2)give camera to friend
3)put on jacket
4)sit in car and put on seatbelt
5)smile and have friend take picture of you sitting in car with jacket and seatbelt on.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:18 pm

dissent wrote:
Ferno wrote:
dissent wrote:Bring a photograph showing how you looked in the car with the jacket and seat belt on.
How in the world is he going to get that?
1)get a friend
2)give camera to friend
3)put on jacket
4)sit in car and put on seatbelt
5)smile and have friend take picture of you sitting in car with jacket and seatbelt on.

I think Ferno is confused. Ferno, he means just a picture of him wearing the same jacket with the seatbelt in the same car. It doesn't need to be from that day directly at the scene

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:05 pm

Canuck, I don't know where you are located, but in many states in the U.S., the officer that appears in court during a ticket contest hearing has to testify that he/she was in uniform at the time the ticket was given to you.

My father used to contest speeding tickets all the time and win (he was a lawyer and liked to drive a little fast). During the court hearing he waited until the officer was through testifying and then he would stand up and request the ticket be thrown out on the grounds the officer didn't say that he was in uniform at the time, which many cops forget to do about 95% of the time. The judge would then throw out the ticket!

I had a cop pull up beside me on the freeway and he took a long time checking me out to see if I had a seatbelt on, which I did, but I also had dark clothing on at the time. He must have finally seen the belt since he didn't pull me over. Fight the effing thing!

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:43 pm

dissent wrote:
Ferno wrote:
dissent wrote:Bring a photograph showing how you looked in the car with the jacket and seat belt on.
How in the world is he going to get that?
1)get a friend
2)give camera to friend
3)put on jacket
4)sit in car and put on seatbelt
5)smile and have friend take picture of you sitting in car with jacket and seatbelt on.

nooooo, really? If it weren't for you, I wouldn't have figured that out. thanks!

Look, if the picture is snapped, all the cop has to do is say that the photo was taken afterwards and the judge will dismiss it. If it was taken beforehand, it would be a different story.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:52 pm

it doesn't have to be taken at the time of the incident to provide proof of the cop being mistaken, creating reasonable doubt.

He could show it to the judge and it'll work for him.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:56 pm

Ferno, all we're trying to do here is lend some credibility to Canuck's claim that it would have been difficult for the cop to see whether the belt was on or not. Use a visual aid to demonstrate to the judge some potential reasonable doubt as to the cop's claim that he saw that the belt was NOT on. Without a unimpeachable witness, you do the best you can. The cop , according to the way Canuck related the story, is either a liar or was simply mistaken. I don't see the value in trying to prove that he was a liar, but it seems it could be easy to demonstrate with a photo that he could have been mistaken.

heh - flip's quicker....

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:31 pm

Thats what I would do too. Take a picture with the jacket and the belt...and at the same angle the police officer would have viewed it. Its a great idea. Good luck.

Bee

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:32 pm

um okay? i've met the dude and visited multiple times. So I think I may know about his credibility.

Sedwick · Post by **Sedwick** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:37 pm

Bet51987 wrote:Thats what I would do too. Take a picture with the jacket and the belt...and at the same angle the police officer would have viewed it.

Not only that, but try getting similar light/shadows/glares/contrast by taking it on the same stretch of road at the same time of day in similar weather conditions. FIGHT THE POWER!

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:16 pm

This is a civil matter, not a criminal one

The judgement will not be based on a reasonable doubt, its preponderance of the evidence.

Basically, in a civil court you only have to be proven 51% guilty, in criminal court you have to be proven 99% guilty. Just ask OJ.

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:42 am

This just came to me:

If you want to be bold, you could motion to have the case dismissed on grounds that it doesn't constitute a civil case.

What I mean by this is according to the Bill of Rights, specifically the Seventh Amendment, civil suits are for disputed values of $20 or more.

Now, the angle you or your lawyer can take on this is that when this Amendment was ratified, the currency used at the time was backed by gold. Therefore, the $20 they are talking about is equivalent to $20 Gold Bullion. If you research the prices of gold bullion, you can see that $20 in gold bullion is actually worth over $200.

This will be the hardest to persuade, but will set a very important precedent.

In fact, you may have some help because of that Tax Trial that was mentioned earlier in this forum where the Employeer (I think he was in Nevada but I dont remember) paid his employees in gold bullion and the courts said that the taxes should have been prepared using the actual value of the coin, not the printed value.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:44 am

considering he's not in america, your points are a bit moot ccb.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:20 am

Ok I have some great pointers here and umm if I babbled American law in a Canadian Court I'd be sentenced for watching too much TV.

What I did is go back to the place on the bridge the spotter was about 20 minutes later and snap some pics. The light conditions hadn't really changed at all and unless the man had some killer spy goggles there is no way he could see a a dark grey or black seatbelt on a black background moving at 30 KMH. I will play it straight and simple and say my piece to the Judge.

I like the idea of having people swear in front of a Notary about my seatbelt habits. I just wonder how much it would cost.

If the Police start lying then I'll whip out the maps and the photos. What gets me is all the time and money I put into this is not covered. Next time a Cop wants a TV from me its gonna be a special price.

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:43 pm

Lol, ★■◆●, yeah, ignore everything I said, I doubt it can help you in a communist country.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:42 pm

ccb056 wrote:I doubt it can help you in a communist country.

Don't be ignorant.

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:50 pm

lol trolled

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:19 pm

Ferno wrote:
ccb056 wrote:I doubt it can help you in a communist country.
Don't be ignorant.

I'm sorry, I meant to say socialist.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:35 pm

20 minutes of prep time gets you off this ticket. Easy.

I got a Seatbelt ticket...

I got a Seatbelt ticket...

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