Is Europe a country?

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:39 pm

As a U.S. citizen, I don't know if I should be angry and worried about the state of our school system or insulted by the blatant sexism. It's like watching a train wreck.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:54 pm

Its entertainment, and since its seen as such, nothing will be done about it.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:06 pm

May be, but the host's reaction to the woman was condescending and sexist. You know that she was deliberately picked for this show. It's all scripted to make the kids look smart.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:06 pm

Speaking from someone in a country with a reputation for education, I can tell you that YES! YOU SHOULD BE VERY MUCH WORRIED ABOUT THE STATE OF YOUR SCHOOLS IN THE USA!

Also, it gets worse...

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:20 pm

Both of these women are from the southern tier of the U.S., which may say something about the schools in that part of the country.

When a friend of mine moved up to Minnesota from Louisiana as a child in the 1960's, his sister was supposed to be in the 3rd grade, but when she was tested, she was way behind, at kindergarten level, and had to work hard to be placed with her age group.

Apparently girls were not given the same level of education as the boys. They were expected to be subservient to a husband, thus not needing a real education. I would hope that isn't the case today.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:03 pm

It isn't.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:23 pm

tunnelcat wrote:Apparently girls were not given the same level of education as the boys. They were expected to be subservient to a husband, thus not needing a real education. I would hope that isn't the case today.

As far as I can tell, that isn't practiced in American schools anymore. Boys and girls are generally given equal oppertunities in eductaion.
Unfortunately, the Media prefers to have things otherwise...

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:14 pm

I don't see why anyone should be generalizing on a gender basis due to the presented video. It simply shows that Kellie Pickler, an individual (who happens to be female), is exceedingly ignorant about geography.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:19 pm

Muahaha, I go to the 24th best High School in the USA, so I don't have to worry about it

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:35 pm

After living on both sides of the mason dixon, I can honestly say that schools down south suck compared to their northern cousins.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:02 pm

TIGERassault wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:Apparently girls were not given the same level of education as the boys. They were expected to be subservient to a husband, thus not needing a real education. I would hope that isn't the case today.
As far as I can tell, that isn't practiced in American schools anymore. Boys and girls are generally given equal oppertunities in eductaion.
Unfortunately, the Media prefers to have things otherwise...

Issues of gender have certainly improved somewhat in the United States, but it's a considerable overstatement to say that boys and girls are treated with "equal" opportunities in education.

From personal experience as both a student and teacher, I can tell you that boys are still often steered toward math, science, and labor-intensive educational careers, while girls are still often steered away from technical things toward social and home-making directions. A bit of research will show you that boys and girls are still educationally encouraged/discouraged in various subjects, starting as far back as elementary school.

It's no longer an educational chasm between genders, and things continue to improve, but there is still a large gap.

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:20 am

tunnelcat wrote:They were expected to be subservient to a husband, thus not needing a real education. I would hope that isn't the case today.

nah, today girls outperform boys in school.

(a super interesting issue in itself)

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:32 am

What's wrong with the sexism? It wasn't like he was wrong. He's a comedian, try being less insulted by non-issues. She's an idiot on TV. Pick a channel, you'll see another one.

Education in this country is awful. Kids can't even count change anymore. Wasn't much better when I was in school. The teachers would make it through maybe 15 chapters of a book, and most kids did poorly. I read the whole book in that time, and..well, never showed up for class..

(Still got A's on my tests, when I took them)

Most of the people I meet on a daily basis can't hold a conversation that isn't sports. Can't spell, can't complete a coherent sentence. Don't know what 'coherent' means. Can't comprehend basic, basic physics. Don't know what 'comprehend' means. (haha the irony)

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:36 pm

TIGERassault wrote:Speaking from someone in a country with a reputation for education, I can tell you that YES! YOU SHOULD BE VERY MUCH WORRIED ABOUT THE STATE OF YOUR SCHOOLS IN THE USA!

Why can't the parents of the children pick up an atlas or go on the net and have a ten minuet conversation with their offspring about geography? Why blame the education system for something so bloody basic? My four year old knows about sixty percent of countries and where they are (even their flags). It's not that hard.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:16 pm

Flabby Chick wrote:
TIGERassault wrote:Speaking from someone in a country with a reputation for education, I can tell you that YES! YOU SHOULD BE VERY MUCH WORRIED ABOUT THE STATE OF YOUR SCHOOLS IN THE USA!
Why can't the parents of the children pick up an atlas or go on the net and have a ten minuet conversation with their offspring about geography? Why blame the education system for something so bloody basic? My four year old knows about sixty percent of countries and where they are (even their flags). It's not that hard.

I would say that it's because both parents are too busy working to pay for health care, but that would be inflamatory and a blatant attempt at jacking the thread.

Having said that, I'd sooooo tap that.

WillyP · Post by **WillyP** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:05 pm

yep...

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:03 pm

lol. what did they do, pluck her from the local trailer park?

just astounding.. she's gone back to grade three.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:29 pm

It gets worse and worse for the U.S. More stupidity (or arrogance) on the loose. Concerning the history of Christianity no less. What a shame. George Carlin is right.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:08 pm

Continents and countries? Even Drew Carey doesn't know the difference.

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:15 pm

tunnelcat wrote:It gets worse and worse for the U.S. More stupidity (or arrogance) on the loose. Concerning the history of Christianity no less. What a shame. George Carlin is right.

Got this from wiki, i think it's a good explanation:

"The next day, Shepherd explained that she never had to defend her religious beliefs before, and that she became overwhelmed with the many questions that were being thrown at her."

tl;dr Incredibly sheltered ppl are incredibly stupid.
You gotta seek out opposing viewpoints, you gotta see the world, be a part of it.

trolls will save us

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:47 pm

Isn't Christianity that country North of Canadia?

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:51 pm

Dakatsu wrote:Isn't Christianity that country North of Canadia?

Depends, where is Canadia?

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:20 pm

no Jesusland is SOUTH of Canada

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:24 am

roid wrote:tl;dr Incredibly sheltered ppl are incredibly stupid.You gotta seek out opposing viewpoints, you gotta see the world, be a part of it.

Why? When you can see the world on the TV.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:02 am

Education is in a sad state of affairs when chimps are outperforming kids in memory taests

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/ap_ ... imp_memory

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:48 pm

There was one little caveat to the chimp story. Chimpanzees age at a faster rate (thus their brain develops faster) than humans, so they are better at memory tasks at a younger age than human children.

However, they then found that humans improved as they got a little bit older and the chimps conversely started to have memory fade as they aged. Eventually in old age, both species have memory problems.

Memory is only a one part of learning. Reasoning and logic are more in the human realm, a requirement to create the technologically advanced society we live in. Although that might not be a good thing for our planet in the long run.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:57 pm

tunnelcat wrote:There was one little caveat to the chimp story. Chimpanzees age at a faster rate (thus their brain develops faster) than humans, so they are better at memory tasks at a younger age than human children.

However, they then found that humans improved as they got a little bit older and the chimps conversely started to have memory fade as they aged. Eventually in old age, both species have memory problems.

Memory is only a one part of learning. Reasoning and logic are more in the human realm, a requirement to create the technologically advanced society we live in. Although that might not be a good thing for our planet in the long run.

I'm sure that's great and all, but it's still pretty sad when a bunch of 20-year-old humans have worse memory than a 5-year-old chimp.
...well, sad for most people. Myself, I have a lot more respect for animals than others.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:11 pm

Yes, but chimps don't live as long as humans. It's been discovered that they also have the all so human trait of killing another of their own species, not for the purpose of eating but just plain murder.

Chimps have observed forming hunting parties for the sole purpose of killing chimps from another tribe. It's not for food since the victim is not eaten, unlike other types of monkeys that are commonly hunted for food. We are more alike than we really want to think about.

As for our educational system, I was reminded of one reason that may be a factor for the decay of our public schools. It's the new idea of \"charter schools\" that many people in the U.S. seem to think is a salvation for all the ills of a failing system. This new form of school is being created by religious and conservative groups that don't like the public school system. Unfortunately, this is siphoning from the dwindling funding base for our public schools.

Reigious groups want to form their own schools to teach what they believe is the \"correct science, history and social morals\" that should be taught to their children (never mind math). Conservatives don't like the idea of \"public schools\" that they see as another public social entitlement that could be better run by the private sector.

A good education should available for ALL children, for a stable society, not just a select few that are part of a church or those who have the money to get a golden education.

It's just a version of the old story \"The Tragedy of the Commons\", at least here in the U.S. We are slowly moving toward a mixture of aristocracy and theology in the way we deal with social issues and run our country. This may one reason why we are seeing such poor education in many areas of our country.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:35 pm

ccb056 wrote:
Dakatsu wrote:Isn't Christianity that country North of Canadia?
Depends, where is Canadia?

I think it's in Southern Detroit.

Aggressor Prime · Post by **Aggressor Prime** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:38 pm

If you are in the south and you have money, you go to Catholic schools (Jesuit schools if you are lucky). If not, well, you end up like these dumb girls.

VonVulcan · Post by **VonVulcan** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:58 pm

Behemoth wrote:It isn't.

DAMN!

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:21 pm

Well... I'm pretty sure that one of the big problems is the lack of parental involvement is a child's life. If you think about it, there are more and more products that are basically \"Keep the kid entertained.\" or to remove guilt \"Keep the kid entertained, but make it educational.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:57 pm

d3jake wrote:Well... I'm pretty sure that one of the big problems is the lack of parental involvement is a child's life.

Finally!

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:37 pm

I don't think that's such an epiphany, Flabs. Lack of parental involvement affects kids more in the personality/attitude/behavior department than the intelligence department. I think that woman's parents were definitely involved with her life from womb to that day. Didn't make her any smarter!

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:49 pm

I agree with Testic. A paren'ts involvement in their child's life may have little to no effect on their education at all, as that's the schools' job.
Heck, her parents might not have known either! Keep in mind that this person is an adult herself.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:57 pm

I disagree with you both. I think Flabby is right on. There's no guarantee, but I think a parent showing interest and pushing their child to learn things about the wider world has a good probability of producing that outcome. I assert that a parent's failure to express any such interest or demands on the child is also teaching the child something - that such knowledge is of little value (to them). By the time you get to Kelly Pickler's age, it's her responsibility to determine where the deficits are in her education, and to correct these deficiencies if necessary. Even a good school will not force you to become educated if you are not willing to learn.

Aggressor Prime · Post by **Aggressor Prime** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:23 pm

You need both a good set of parents and a good education system. Parents work on the behavior of the child. They give the child the motivation to do well. The school system is the means by which the child does well, in terms of learning.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:52 am

Aggressor Prime wrote:You need both a good set of parents and a good education system. Parents work on the behavior of the child. They give the child the motivation to do well. The school system is the means by which the child does well, in terms of learning.

Mabye, but your child would have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think that Europe is a country in regular schools.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:11 am

TIGERassault wrote:Mabye, but your child would have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to know that Europe is a country in regular schools.

So how do you use a computer, Tiger?

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:21 am

I don't know how the school system in the States works, but having gone through the UK system and seeing at first hand the Israeli system, id say schools teach kids how to pass exams. They pass the exams to go on the road to pass more exams to go on the road to get a profession. I don't believe schools 'educate'. Parents do that.

Do parents in the US wait till the child enters the education system for it to teach them how to read, write and do basic maths, geography and astronomy? If so why?

I find it pretty astonishing that any parent would 'dump' the responsibility of educating totally on the school system. Most of my joy comes from telling new things to my kids...and i'm a thick bugger.

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