There must be violence against women!

[Nightshade]

http://yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=1 ... munity&a=6

There must be violence against women
By: Maged Thabet Al-Kholidy majed_thabet@hotmail.com

This title may sound strange, but it’s actually not just a way to attract readers to the topic because I really do mean what it indicates. Violence is a broad term, especially when used regarding women. In this piece, I want to shed light on those instances where violence against women is a must.

First, we should know the meaning of the word violence. Longman’s Dictionary of Contemporary English defines violence as “behavior that is intended to hurt other people physically.” However, the term violence mustn’t be confused with other concepts and terms such as gender inequality or absence of women rights.

Occasionally – if not daily – we hear about events occurring in Islamic and Arab societies. Some human rights organizations recently have attacked violent acts against women, standing against any type of violence – even that between a father and daughter – and citing the cases of some women as examples.

Consequently, they offer solutions such as complaining to the police, taking revenge or leaving them men, who are either their husbands, fathers or brothers – with no exceptions.

One such case involved a woman whose husband allegedly had beaten her. Without revealing the husband’s reasons for doing so, such human rights organizations immediately urged the wife to complain to the police and the courts, while at the same time generalizing the instance and other similar solutions to any type of violence.

If a man and woman are husband and wife, the Qur’an provides solutions, firstly reaffirming any logical and acceptable reasons for such punishment. These solutions are in gradual phases and not just for women, but for men also.

For men, it begins with abandoning the marital bed, by opting to sleep elsewhere in the house. After this, they may discuss the matter with any respected person for the husband’s or the wife’s family, who could be in a position to advise the wife. If this also does not work, then the husband yields to beating the wife slightly. They do this because of a misunderstanding in the Quran, as the word says Darban, which is commonly understood today as beating. However, in Classic Arabic it means to set examples or to announce and proclaim. The more accurate meaning of this last one is that the husband finally has to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation, and if these measures fail, then divorce is preferable.

Similarly, wives may take actions such as abandoning the marital bed, following by leaving the husband’s home for that of their parents, brothers or any other relatives. They may do this more than once, but if such action fails, they may not continue to live with their husband and via their relatives, they may request a divorce.

Despite such instructions, beating is considered a type of violence, according to human rights organizations, which urge women to complain to the police. I just wonder what kind of families our societies would have if Muslim women started doing this regarding their husbands.

Relationships between fathers and daughters or sisters and brothers also provoke argument from human rights organizations, which propose the suggested solutions for all relationships. Personally, I don’t think fathers or brothers would undertake such behavior unless there was a reason for it.

Fathers are responsible for their daughters’ behavior, but human rights organizations deny this too. Brothers also should take action regarding their sisters’ behavior, especially if their parents are too old or dead. If a daughter or sister makes a mistake – especially a moral one – that negatively affects the entire family and its reputation, what’s the solution by such organizations?

According to them, women should complain to the courts about any type of violence against them. Likewise, should fathers and brothers complain to police if their daughters or sisters violate moral, Islamic or social norms?

Fathers should handle their daughters via any means that suits their mistake; thus, is it better to use violence to a certain limit or complain to the police? Shall such women then complain to the police against their fathers or brothers? It’s really amazing to hear this.

In some cases, violence is necessary, but there must be limits. Those “good human rights organizations” don’t make any exceptions in their solutions because their aim is to serve society. Will it be a better society once we see wives, mothers, sisters and daughters going from one police station and one court to another, complaining against their husbands, fathers, brothers and even sons?

As the proverb goes, “If the speaker is mad, the listener should be mindful.” This proverb is good advice for every man and woman not only to keep their ears open, but also to avoid the misleading propaganda of such organizations, whose surface aims hide other destructive ones to destroy society’s religious, social and moral norms. This matter requires consideration.

Dear readers – especially women – don’t think that I hate or am against women; rather, I simply mean to preserve the morals and principles with which Islam has honored us.

I hope my message is clear, since it’s really quite relevant to the future of our societies, which must be protected from any kind of cultural invasion.

[The Lion]

What an idiot. This guy first disambiguates the word "violence" and
acknowledges the misunderstanding in the Quran, and then proceeds
to keep it and just forget about it as if there was none in the first place.

He also tries to keep attention away from the difference between
spanking someone and beating someone senseless, mentioning
only that "there must be limits".

And he sounds dangerous, too. Just consider that last paragraph:

I hope my message is clear, since it’s really quite relevant to the future of our societies, which must be protected from any kind of cultural invasion.

This guy should be kept an eye on.

[TechPro]

ThunderBunny,
Since you posted this, it's plain you must have an opinion about this. What is your opinion on this?

[Nightshade]

My opinion is more than obvious Mr. Pro- otherwise I wouldn't have bothered posting this here.

[Duper]

But it's common courtesy or at least common practice to give an inkling of what you're thinking when you post something.


And it should be \"obvious\" by now that most of us aren't really interested in this stuff. These threads take off only after someone else posts an opinion.

meh

[TIGERassault]

I actually read the entire post, which I haven't done for one of TB's topics in a long while. But I only did so because I had no idea what he was getting at. And even after reading it all, I still have no idea what the article is about.
I mean, the only thing I could figure out from it was that if you're at a stage where your spouse is beating you at any point, then you can either contact the police or take advice from the Quran as quoted. That's all.

[roid]

My opinion is more than obvious Mr. Pro- otherwise I wouldn't have bothered posting this here.

i'd like to think your opinion is more than just "whatever he said". that's all your threads are: "whatever he said".

few things you ever post indicate otherwise, it's like your an automated spamming bot. No-one's sure you even understand what you're posting - since you are so lax with personal commentary. You could be copypasting without even reading it.

If i wanted to read this flavour of moonbat islamophobia i'd SEEK OUT and READ THE ARTICLE MYSELF without your help. What everyone comes to this forum to do is interact with other people - not to read "Thunderbunny's top-10 favourite copypasta" with no commentary. I repeat, if we wanted to read an article we'd seek out and read an article - we're here to talk.

If you've got nothing to say on your own article, then there's no guarentee you've even read it - the whole thing could be a slip of the mouse, it could be an error.
As some have already indicated - the article makes little sense. You are wasting our time spambot.

[Bet51987]

TB... I would like to post my opinion (and more) about the contents of your post but I don't want to upset the other members so maybe you can tell me what your intent was. I understand what the post is about, and as a women, I don't consider anything \"Islamophobia\".

Bettina

[Sirius]

I wouldn't say he's dangerous, but I would say he's possibly a fairly typical example of Muslim conservatism.

I don't think violence is ever a real solution to keeping your family in line (thus disagreeing with the article on that point), but there is at least some sense in what he is saying. He doesn't condone abuse.

[Nightshade]

What I am presenting is an inherent incompatibility between what is acceptable in our society and what is being brought to our shores via what muslims practice. Women are subordinate to men and at best treated as children to be punished; or at worst beaten or even killed. There are many things our western society will tolerate but will it tolerate the subordination of one sex under another simply because it is a 'cultural norm' of an introduced minority?

If hitting your wife is permissible under islam, why is it not under other circumstances? Should such behavior be overlooked in the name of cultural diversity?

[Dakatsu]

In Soviet Russia, women subordinate you!

[roid]

Thunderbunny, how do you feel about Christian Wife Spanking?
http://feministing.com/archives/007603.html

will i see you at your local feminist rally?
or will i only see you at your local anti-islam rally?

[Foil]

Unless I'm misunderstanding him, roid makes a point, I think.

Violence against women is certainly at its worst in places in Islam. However, it's also often very bad here in the United States, under a number of guises.

Sure, women are treated better overall in the Western world than in the Middle-East. But even here, the gender gap is still HUGE. A few minutes of research will show you that women are still treated unequally everywhere from the home to the workplace to the church (and it's often due to religious beliefs). It's not solely an Islamic issue; it's a worldwide issue.

My wife and I consider ourselves feminists (she's actually much more knowledgeable than I am about gender issues, her degree is in Sociology). But even among some members of our families and the Christian churches we grew up in, it's often clear that there is long way to go in terms of the way women are treated.

In other words, roid is right... Islam is the worst, but we're no \"bastion of women's rights\", either.

....

ThunderBunny, the reason people here are skeptical about your posts is that you have been posting copies of articles by others for a couple of years now, with virtually none of your own words.

This is the first one in a long time having anything to do with gender issues, but probably the 25th consecutive one having a very anti-Islamic message.

Thus, it's very difficult to believe that your motives here are primarily pro-women rather than purely anti-Islamic.

[Bet51987]

Violence against women is certainly at its worst in places in Islam.

At it's worst is an understatement and I doubt that you can compare it to anything in the U.S. using the root cause of the violence which is the religion itself. I just want apples to be compared with apples.

Sure, women are treated better overall in the Western world than in the Middle-East. But even here, the gender gap is still HUGE. A few minutes of research will show you that women are still treated unequally everywhere from the home to the workplace to the church (and it's often due to religious beliefs). It's not solely an Islamic issue; it's a worldwide issue.

TB was talking about my government's acceptance of the Islamic religion knowing what is written in it and I agree with him and you are right... Islam is a worldwide issue, especially on it's treatment of women.

Bee

[Spaceboy]

It's hard to break thousand's of years of tradition and\\or behavior concerning the interactions between men and women, I'd say for the small amount of time feminist movements came about we've come remarkably far.