d2 weapons, impressions *SPLIT*

[DarkHorse]

If you think D2 weapons are weak, you should see what the numbers are like compared to D3 weapons.

[Sirius]

Uber-weapons are overrated in the Descent series. The Fusion wasn't too bad in D1, but it didn't see use everywhere because it couldn't pin anything with such a low firing rate. On the flipside, it did good damage - if the bolts were a bit large - so it was good for sniping. In D2, the damage has been halved (or so), meaning Fusion is nearly useless unless you're intentionally trying to handicap yourself.

Omega helps clean up spider spawn, sidearm modulae, red hornets and ITDs - that's about it. It's basically good for hitting hard-to-catch small bots. Works against Omega bombers as well, since a full blast is enough to kill them.

And yeah, Gauss is pretty much the weapon to have in single-player just because it's so powerful and effectively impossible for robots to dodge.

[Pumo]

I also think that Omega is the worse...
It's the most useless weapon on D2, although if you want to know more useless weapons check D3

IMHO, Fusion is an Excellent weapon. You can also use it on small robots when they are on groups to destroy the entire group with just one shot!
So for me, Fusion is VERY useful...
In fact the best Descent weapons ever are Plasma, Helix, Fusion & Gauss (at least for me)...

[Krom]

I disabled D2 Fusion from autoselect, in D1 Fusion is definitely an uber-weapon, but in D2 it is a totally useless nerf gun. In D1, all but two types of mech (and the bosses) can be killed by a single charged Fusion shot, it mows through everything in your path like no other weapon in the game.

In D3, Fusion is better than it was in D2, but still nothing compared to D1 Fusion, and the ship shake from charging it is also pathetic. D1/D2 ship shake was like white water rafting, D3 is like floating in a pool with kids splashing nearby.

[zico]

I disabled D2 Fusion from autoselect, in D1 Fusion is definitely an uber-weapon, but in D2 it is a totally useless nerf gun. In D1, all but two types of mech (and the bosses) can be killed by a single charged Fusion shot, it mows through everything in your path like no other weapon in the game.

Definetly. D2 Fusion only uses half of the power compared to D1. However in D1 multiplayer it switches to D2-like level.

[Krom]

I might actually play D2 single player again if there was a switch to make D2 SP Fusion == D1 SP Fusion. *hint*hint*

[zico]

Sounds like an idea.

Had ideas for a D1-Weapons-mode in D2 for a long time, however.

[Sirius]

D2X-XL has some setting to modify the fusion power - although it's not just a switch, it's some kind of slider from normal (D2 levels) up to 400% (probably silly)... I would guess 200% would be about the same as D1.

[zico]

I would guess 200% would be about the same as D1.

As written - right.

[DarkHorse]

Does the slider work in multiplayer?

[DarkFlameWolf]

There was a program I used for the new weapons in Lost Levels to create new weapons. And I think it had options like strength and stuff for Fusion and stuff. Forgot what it was called though.

[Aus-RED-5]

Does the slider work in multiplayer?

No.... well only the host (D2X-XL) can make the changes. Otherwise it's disabled.

[Diedel]

I might actually play D2 single player again if there was a switch to make D2 SP Fusion == D1 SP Fusion. *hint*hint*

With D2X-XL you can increase Fusion power up to 4 times in .5 steps. Additionally you can enable triple Fusion, giving you a 3rd fusion blob if you collect a 2nd Fusion cannon. Double the standard Fusion power plus the third blob means 1.5 times the D1 Fusion strength. Really brings back the fun to using the Fusion gun.

Above that Fusion blobs travel extremely fast, faster than all other primaries except the Gauss. Another advantage is that they penetrate their targets and keep traveling, allowing you to destroy several robots at once if they're lined up one after the other.

D2X-XL btw. has two Fusion related bugs from the original Descent 2 fixed here (one where motionless objects aren't hit if they aren't in the same segment as the Fusion blob, the other where Fusion hits are scored several times per frame if too many objects get hit simultaneously).

Afaik the most efficient D2 gun in terms of energy consumption vs. damage dealt is the Quad Super Laser 2. Eating shields the fastest is the Omega due to its insane firing rate and high damage. The Omega is useful for damaging the small, weak and fast robots as it is homing in on its target.

Maybe I will add an "increase Omega power/duration" control similar to the Fusion (as usual host controlled in multiplayer/unavailable if host doesn't use D2X-XL). The D2X-XL cheat "minemine" gives you unlimited Omega firing duration (no energy drain), turning it into a very powerful weapon.

[Theftbot]

Omega is faster though

[Sirius]

Yeah, quad 6 is the most efficient. Unless you count Gauss - not sure how it compares to that since they use different systems... though I suspect full Gauss ammo allows more damage output.

[Diedel]

Omega is faster though

That's true. But I left it out of these considerations because of its extremely limited range.

[Lothar]

Has Omega's framerate dependency been fixed in any of the current D2 versions? The D2 programmers said it was designed/balanced for machines running about 30 fps. At higher framerates, it gets to be significantly more powerful (one reason it was generally banned in ladder matches.) At 30 fps, you're going to do more damage per time with quad 6's than with omega, but at 200 fps omega will win easily.

[The Lion]

I thought quad 4 from D1 was the most efficient... 52 damage for a full hit.

Beats quad 6 from d2 which is 50.

D2 Fusion only uses half of the power compared to D1. However in D1 multiplayer it switches to D2-like level.

Huh? D1 fusion is 30 per blob uncharged compared to 15 in D2, I checked very
recently (with rebirth 0.53).

[Diedel]

I thought quad 4 from D1 was the most efficient... 52 damage for a full hit.

Beats quad 6 from d2 which is 50.

Yes, but this thread is about D2 weapons. I think people mainly started talking about the D1 Fusion because they liked it for being such a powerful weapon in D1 and because it was more or less ruined in D2, taking away the fun from using it.

[zico]

I thought quad 4 from D1 was the most efficient... 52 damage for a full hit.

Beats quad 6 from d2 which is 50.

D2 Fusion only uses half of the power compared to D1. However in D1 multiplayer it switches to D2-like level.

Huh? D1 fusion is 30 per blob uncharged compared to 15 in D2, I checked very
recently (with rebirth 0.53).

Related to some D1X additions which make MP Fusion -> SP Fusion if D1X-only is active.
Which I think is stupid for MP... my opinion.

[Moon]

Huh? D1 fusion is 30 per blob uncharged compared to 15 in D2, I checked very recently (with rebirth 0.53).

How did you check it with Rebirth? I've checked it for D2 with Descent Manager's Haxmedit which shows the D2 Fusion blobs at a strength of 30 on all skill levels.

[The Lion]

Ah sorry forgot the topic, d2 weapons yes.

I checked the fusion in D2 multiplayer on rebirth 0.53 (just checked again in fact);
a single uncharged fusion blob does 15 damage; a full uncharged hit does 30.

It's half the damage of the D1 fusion.

[Sedwick]

Too bad you couldn't have used the Omega for incoming missiles. Bet that would have made it more popular...

[Moon]

From my tests with D1XR D1 fusion is 31/blob so a full hit steals 62 HPs. Diedel, can you confirm this by checking the 'tables' in D1? Thx.

[zico]

As written - In SP this is a good value, but in MP it's too much. However I have *fixed* that some weeks ago...

[Diedel]

Too bad you couldn't have used the Omega for incoming missiles. Bet that would have made it more popular...

Now that sounds like a good idea. Will add that as an option to D2X-XL.

[zico]

This is more than ridiculus.

Making MP Fusion have the same power as SP, was a D1X addition. Nothing a D1 developer ever did. I also do NOT talk about D2 code (where SP and MP Fusion have the same scale). So before you talk about stuff that isn't right, just to flame around, just do everyone a favor and shut the ★■◆● up.

So I do not *change* the original gamepaly, I'll reset it to original.

[Diedel]

From the weapon data tables of D1 and D2:

D1: 30 damage per blob
D2: 15 damage per blob

Values are halved in multiplayer for both versions.
Supercharging can up to double the damage.

That means a fully supercharged D1 Fusion hit with both blobs does 120 shield points damage in single player. Not bad.

Supercharged D2 triple Fusion at 200% power would do (15 * 2) * 3 * 2 = 180 shield points damage. That's pretty cool, particularly in tough single player maps.

If people want to play instagib with Descent, they can do so with D2X-XL: Crank Fusion power up to 400 %, grab a Fusion map, and there you go.

[Sirius]

Or is there just no one using D1X-R for multiplayer?

There is, actually - D1X-R seems to be the standard for D1 games these days. (Lack of competition helps of course. )

The field's a bit more open for D2 because there are so many different versions.

[Moon]

I stand by my statement from sometime ago: I'd wish for ANYONE releasing enhanced versions of any Descent to include a switch that would make the game run with it's original settings/stats/values from the final patches, 1.5a, 1.2, 1.4. Thanks!

[Diedel]

Moon,

I don't really know what you mean with that. I can say at least for D2X-XL that it does not change or override any of these settings w/o the user explicitly specifying it in the related menu. Or do I misunderstand something here?

Or is there just no one using D1X-R for multiplayer?

There is, actually - D1X-R seems to be the standard for D1 games these days. (Lack of competition helps of course. )

The field's a bit more open for D2 because there are so many different versions.

The main differences between D2X-XL and D1 (any flavor) is the robot AI. Player ship behaviour and weapon strengths are the same in D2X-XL as in Descent 1. So particularly for multiplayer, D2X-XL is an absolutely valid choice for Descent 1 multiplayer. That means that you can benefit from all the enhancements of D2X-XL even in D1 multiplayer matches, should you want to.

[d3jake]

removed

[DarkFlameWolf]

So I personally like the Plasma Cannon the best. I tend to make it my primary weapon personally. With homing missiles my primary secondary, barring that, mecury missiles are the bomb.

[Spirit]

Höflichkeit und ne anständige Ausdrucksweise waren ja noch nie Deine Stärke.

Translated, this would mean: "Politeness and a decent way to express yourself never has been your strength."

o.O

Somehow my response got deleted, probably a bug or so >.>

If it was deleted deliberately, have I done wrong? I have just followed the wish for this to be translated. o.ô

[Moon]

Moon,

I don't really know what you mean with that.

I just wanted to stress again how important I think it is that you included the -nostalgia switch (that also records demos to the old format) so ppl who wanna turn off all the fancy enhancements can play the 'original' game on modern computers. I hope you keep this up as well as any other author doing modifications of the game.

[AceCombat]

o.O

Somehow my response got deleted, probably a bug or so >.>

If it was deleted deliberately, have I done wrong? I have just followed the wish for this to be translated. o.ô

that would be my fault, i meant to leave it in and accidentally clicked the check box for splitting it. i apologize

[Diedel]

I just wanted to stress again how important I think it is that you included the -nostalgia switch (that also records demos to the old format) so ppl who wanna turn off all the fancy enhancements can play the 'original' game on modern computers. I hope you keep this up as well as any other author doing modifications of the game.

Why shouldn't I? Of course I will, and if it at some point of time should not work as expected, all I need is a bug report, and I will fix it.

[Lothar]

Making MP Fusion have the same power as SP, was a D1X addition. Nothing a D1 developer ever did.

I hope you follow in Diedel's footsteps and make this an option that can be disabled.

Real Descent players play with D1x-style fusion.

[Moon]

if it at some point of time should not work as expected, all I need is a bug report, and I will fix it.

Would be nice cause despite following your install instructions to the letter D2X-XL locks up on me. Weird, can't find my bug report on SF on this anymore.

[Diedel]

What will not come back is the file mess (everything except missions in the main Descent folder).

Apart from that must your problem be a setup problem. You're the only one having it.

Try a clean reinstall somewhere else and use the default pilot.