Banned and removed...

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:42 pm

\"Fitna\"

Freedom of speech and expression is under attack.

{Warning: some disturbing images.)

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:46 pm

A statement about threats made against people for simply hosting or speaking of this particular film:

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:15 pm

Watch the posters below call you names now.

Don't let them sway you.

It's a scary video depicting an even scarier religion, and the latest tape is a call to arms.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23773582/

Bee

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:55 pm

So you've stirred the pot, whatcha cookin?

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:09 am

Thanks for that bit of jocularity TB. Is there a sequel? Comedy is best in threes.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:11 pm

A much more in-depth examination of the intertwining \"faith\" of islam and the unspeakable violence exercised in its name is here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5775858867

A religion of peace indeed, but only for the innocent- but if you are not considered an innocent (an adherent to islam) you are to be put to death if not subjugated.

Islam: What the West Needs to Know (And what YOU need to know.)

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:25 pm

I’m still convinced that the enemy of the west is extremist Arabs, and not Muslims.

The radical Arabs are the ones who are running all over the Islamic world claiming to be the true Islam and fermenting their particular brand of hatred.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:46 pm

I find it interesting that even though most of the domestic terrorism committed in the States is done by extremist Christians, there isn't an outcry against Christianity in this country.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:08 pm

Edit:

Would you mind expanding on that statement with a little proof.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:28 pm

First, just to be clear and forestall the inevitable misunderstanding and resulting backlash, I am NOT[\\b] slamming Christianity. I realize that extremist groups are just that, extremist. They do not represent the views and attitudes of the mainstream. I am merely pointing out what I consider to be hypocrisy in some people’s attitudes towards terrorism.

As for proof, I'm not going to dig up endless links, so I will use events we should all remember from the news.

Eric Robert Rudolph. He bombed the Atlanta Olympics as well as at least one abortion clinic.

A group calling itself the Army of God took responsibility for bombing an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, that killed one person in 1998.

There was a wave of killings of abortion providers in the mid to late 90's.

Pick anything the KKK or Aryan Nation have done.

These are just a few examples of religious terrorism in the States. There are many more groups around the world that commit acts of terrorism in the name of Christianity.

It is interesting to me that there isn’t the same type of anti-Christian rhetoric regarding these acts and the groups who committed them as there is regarding Islamic extremists who are basically doing the same thing. This is to say “believe as we do, act as we do, or we will kill you.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:35 pm

Dedman wrote:I find it interesting that even though most of the domestic terrorism committed in the States is done by extremist Christians, there isn't an outcry against Christianity in this country.

I find the outcry against Christianity more organized and recurrent than any measure of Christian terrorism by far!
It's just that compared to middle eastern methods and custom the Christian 'terrorists' as well as their detractors are quite civilized and harmless.

Sure we've had some attacks at abortion clinics and of those a few that actually caused a death or two but if you are waiting for the likes of Bill Marr to go from ridiculing the Christians to actually getting Nancy Pelosi to issue a Fatwa calling for their heads on poles you're going to have to wait until the Christians learn from the Islamofascists how do some proper beheadings and car bombings and sustain the carnage long enough for the anti-Christians to step up the "outcry"....

Thunderbunny might be doing his usual hate mongering but you just sounded like you were running an illegal analogy down field so I had to throw the yellow flag on it

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:49 pm

I want instant replay

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:07 pm

Well Dedman, when I seen your reply I started searching the net for some evidence for your claim...and I did come up with some terrorism in the name of Christianity, but I found much more from left wing groups in the last 50 years or so. And did you know that a eco terrorist group is now on the top of the FBI’s domestic list?

JFTR As far as I’m concerned your statement is null and void until you prove it.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:15 pm

I never really thought about it, but I guess it doesn't surprise me that eco-terrorism is on the rise.

Here's a wiki article on Christian terrorism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

I guess as Will says, it's all about the scale of operations.

EDIT

Spidey wrote:JFTR As far as I’m concerned your statement is null and void until you prove it.

Until I prove what? That Christian Extremist terrorism exists? I think that needs about as much proving as the statement: the earth isn't flat.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:19 pm

I already seen that page, and it in no way quantifies the subject.

JFTR As far as I’m concerned your statement is null and void until you prove it.

And I don’t mean a bunch of links, I mean comprehensive proof. (as in a government study or some such)

And remember you did say “domestic”.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:23 pm

Dedman wrote: Until I prove what? That Christian Extremist terrorism exists? I think that needs about as much proving as the statement: the earth isn't flat.

You did say "MOST"

"I find it interesting that even though most of the domestic terrorism committed in the States is done by extremist Christians, there isn't an outcry against Christianity in this country."

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:28 pm

What ever dude.

My point was that people don't seem to get as bent out of shape over acts of Christian extremist terrorism as they do over acts of Islamic extremist terrorism. I was merely making an observation. That's all. I wasn't taking a position on anything.

If you need incontrovertible proof of something, go find it yourself.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:31 pm

Well let me know the next time Christian terrorists kill 3000 people in the USA…k

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:44 pm

All this posturing and semantic games and you still won't even address my original observation other than to basically say; oh yeah, well their terrorists are worse than ours.

Have a goon night dude.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:55 pm

Maybe if some \"Christian\" extremists took out 2 huge buildings, killing thousands of innocent people, then things would be different.

Having someone declare war on your entire way of life, and then taking the war to non-combatants has a way of getting your attention.

I don't think it's a valid observation at all. I think it's an intellectual blunder.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:24 pm

I think it's obvious dedman didn't watch any of video which I linked.

All religion is a silly human delusion at best- at worst it is a framework for a totalitarian state that subjugates all and murders those that do not accept its supremacy. This is islam as it was founded and as it is practiced.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:34 pm

ThunderBunny wrote: All religion is a silly human delusion at best- at worst it is a framework for a totalitarian state that subjugates all and murders those that do not accept its supremacy. This is islam as it was founded and as it is practiced.

My Religion isn’t any of that!

re·li·gion [ri líjjən]
(plural re·li·gions)
n
3. personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:12 am

In all fairness Dedman, you started your question with a preface, I can’t answer your question if I don’t accept your preface.

Anyway I think you already know the answer.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:54 am

ThunderBunny wrote:A much more in-depth examination of the intertwining "faith" of islam and the unspeakable violence exercised in its name is here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5775858867

A religion of peace indeed, but only for the innocent- but if you are not considered an innocent (an adherent to islam) you are to be put to death if not subjugated.

Islam: What the West Needs to Know (And what YOU need to know.)

Some good stuff in there. Thanks for the link, TB.

Here's the video without dutch subtitles:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7772997781

YouTube version (1 of 10):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHf1sOzC ... re=related

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:02 am

notice the type of people responding to this (some exceptions apply) and the type of responses.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:36 am

An edifying observation, regardless of how you choose to look at it.

Anyone else want to stand up and be counted as not buying, hook, line, and sinker into the "Islam is Peace" movement?

Actually, I thought there were some good points made in that last video that were germane to certain aspects of our last discussion. The one that primarily comes to mind is the stated fact that newer portions of Islamic "scripture" can override the old.

This deals with three areas, in my mind:
1) The idea that Islamic scripture and Christian scripture are or can be dealt with in much the same way. This assumption is evidenced by this to be misleading, I believe.

2) This casts a new light on portions of the Koran that appear more peaceful, as they don't necessarily have to coexist with the violent parts.

3) It highlights a major difference between Allah and the God of the Bible. Jesus said:

Matthew 5 wrote:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

The Bible shows a God that does not change, and a God who deals with people according to covenants. In Christianity, God has given a new covenant, but even this new covenant does not erase the old, it fulfills the law (the requirements) of the old covenant through a better way--Jesus Christ.

The topic of Islam is not finished, on the DBB, in my mind.

roid · Post by **roid** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:57 am

\"Islam is Peace\"

Islam seems like slightly less peace than Christianity.

The difference is not big though, Christianity cannot cast the first stone.

Not that i ever expect any of you hypocrites to ever shut up

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:36 am

Nutcases are everywhere.

Couldn't resist

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:36 am

Speaking of the peaceful folk, you could say that a number of Muslims are slightly less peaceful than \"Christians\".

Or, if we're talking about the most violent (throughout any time of history), you could probably say that Muslims are only slightly less peace than Christians.

Concerning the religion itself, a statement that Islam is only slightly less peace than Judaism could also be true (or at least close).

But Islam itself bears remarkably little similarity to Christianity. For you to say that they are close is either to show a great deal of ignorance concerning Christianity (or Islam), or a great failure to state what it is you are really saying. \"Christianity\" is a religion that exists in the present, as is Islam. There is a huge difference between the two.

As it stands your statement could be considered both right and dead wrong, depending on how one wishes to translate it (or not translate it). In the future, please make use of sharper implements. They make for a cleaner kill (or a cleaner miss).

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:24 am

ThunderBunny wrote:I think it's obvious dedman didn't watch any of video which I linked.

You'd be wrong on that count Captain Obvious. I did watch it. Hence my *jocularity* comment. I thought the vid was pretty funny.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:18 am

Hoo-ray, more Islam-bashing!

Look, how many of you have actually met a, well, whatever the equivalent of a high priest is for Muslims and they tell you that to be a true Islam you have to be homicidal?
Just because you read a part of the Koran that said you should be violent does NOT mean it's necessarily part of the religion!

And for bloody hell, stop using the 'well, there were a few Muslims that blew up major buildings' argument! 'A few guys' does not make a world religion, got it?

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:24 pm

First of all, TIGERassault, that's not the argument being made. That's a side argument about why so much attention is payed to Islamic terrorism over "Christian" acts of violence (not even "terrorism", come to think of it).

TIGERassault wrote:Just because you read a part of the Koran that said you should be violent does NOT mean it's necessarily part of the religion!

Reading part of the Koran that "said you should be violent" is the SUREST way to know that it's part of the religion!

I think you need to watch the last video (a little more carefully?), because you're missing the point entirely.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:35 pm

Look, how many of you have actually met a, well, whatever the equivalent of a high priest is for Muslims and they tell you that to be a true Islam you have to be homicidal?

You obviously haven't.

I met several muslims from the UAE (United Arab Emirates) that were students of my father when he was teaching them english (so they could understand and use SAIC training manuals for weapons SAIC was selling to their government). They took a liking to my father and invited us to their communal apartment. I was flattered at first, but then they brought out the Koran and seemed to want us to convert to islam \"before we were 6 ft under.\" Their words, not mine. They seemed to be nice young guys in their early 20s, very friendly and outgoing- but they were clearly believers in their religion and- what was to happen to those that did not convert. Most muslims want to have nothing to do with killing (even some suicide bombers have second thoughts at the last minute because they realize they are killing fellow human beings.) BUT it is within the legal (LEGAL within the koran in the eyes of allah) legitimacy given to killing unbelievers that sets islam apart.

islam has no real central authority- rather a series of local imams (Shia islam has ayatollahs that can issue fatwas.)

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:13 pm

TIGERassault wrote:....And for bloody hell, stop using the 'well, there were a few Muslims that blew up major buildings' argument! 'A few guys' does not make a world religion, got it?

Whether or not you want to blame the religion or the large faction of leaders within the religion the fact remains clear that preaching and teaching violence and terror against infidels is much more wide spread, as in world wide, than "a few Muslims that blew up major buildings".
You can roll that rat turd in all the sugar you want, it'll never be a gumdrop!

Hostile · Post by **Hostile** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:24 pm

Will Robinson wrote:You can roll that rat turd in all the sugar you want, it'll never be a gumdrop!

ROFL. I am going to use that....

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:38 pm

This just is not going to end...

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:51 pm

Dakatsu wrote:This just is not going to end...

Not as long as people follow Muhammad the warrior.

Bee

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:13 pm

my work here is done. This is getting fun.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:10 pm

Four Pack Bouncing Betties wrote:
Dakatsu wrote:This just is not going to end...
Not as long as people follow Muhammad the warrior.

Bee

No, I mean the constant gripings between the "Islam Kills Kittens" vs "Islam Is the Source of Kittens" threads. It just never ends, no matter what is said. Seriously people, go play some Descent 3, at least when you waste time playing videogames, it is fun, not a gripefest of boredom...

Dedman wrote:my work here is done. This is getting fun.

Lies, no fun is to be had in this thread. Go play some Descent 3, get some work done in that.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:25 pm

Dakatsu wrote:Lies, no fun is to be had in this thread.

Oh I don't know. I find a great deal of humor in this thread.

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