The Ethanol mistake...

[Nightshade]

Food Crisis Starts Eclipsing Climate Change Worries
Gore Ducks, as a Backlash Builds Against Biofuels
By JOSH GERSTEIN, Staff Reporter of the Sun | April 25, 2008

The campaign against climate change could be set back by the global food crisis, as foreign populations turn against measures to use foodstuffs as substitutes for fossil fuels.

With prices for rice, wheat, and corn soaring, food-related unrest has broken out in places such as Haiti, Indonesia, and Afghanistan. Several countries have blocked the export of grain. There is even talk that governments could fall if they cannot bring food costs down.

One factor being blamed for the price hikes is the use of government subsidies to promote the use of corn for ethanol production. An estimated 30% of America’s corn crop now goes to fuel, not food.

“I don’t think anybody knows precisely how much ethanol contributes to the run-up in food prices, but the contribution is clearly substantial,” a professor of applied economics and law at the University of Minnesota, C. Ford Runge, said. A study by a Washington think tank, the International Food Policy Research Institute, indicated that between a quarter and a third of the recent hike in commodities prices is attributable to biofuels.

Last year, Mr. Runge and a colleague, Benjamin Senauer, wrote an article in Foreign Affairs, “How Biofuels Could Starve the Poor.”

“We were criticized for being alarmist at the time,” Mr. Runge said. “I think our views, looking back a year, were probably too conservative.”

Ethanol was initially promoted as a vehicle for America to cut back on foreign oil. In recent years, biofuels have also been touted as a way to fight climate change, but the food crisis does not augur well for ethanol’s prospects.

“It takes around 400 pounds of corn to make 25 gallons of ethanol,” Mr. Senauer, also an applied economics professor at Minnesota, said. “It’s not going to be a very good diet but that’s roughly enough to keep an adult person alive for a year.”

Mr. Senauer said climate change advocates, such as Vice President Gore, need to distance themselves from ethanol to avoid tarnishing the effort against global warming. “Crop-based biofuels are not part of the solution. They, in fact, add to the problem. Whether Al Gore has caught up with that, somebody ought to ask him,” the professor said. “There are lots of solutions, real solutions to climate change. We need to get to those.”

Mr. Gore was not available for an interview yesterday on the food crisis, according to his spokeswoman. A spokesman for Mr. Gore’s public campaign to address climate change, the Alliance for Climate Protection, declined to comment for this article.

However, the scientist who shared the Nobel Peace Prize with Mr. Gore, Rajendra Pachauri of the United Nations’s Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change, has warned that climate campaigners are unwise to promote biofuels in a way that risks food supplies. “We should be very, very careful about coming up with biofuel solutions that have major impact on production of food grains and may have an implication for overall food security,” Mr. Pachauri told reporters last month, according to Reuters. “Questions do arise about what is being done in North America, for instance, to convert corn into sugar then into biofuels, into ethanol.”

In an interview last year, Mr. Gore expressed his support for corn-based ethanol, but endorsed moving to what he called a “third generation” of so-called cellulosic ethanol production, which is still in laboratory research. “It doesn’t compete with food crops, so it doesn’t put pressure on food prices,” the former vice president told Popular Mechanics magazine.

A Harvard professor of environmental studies who has advised Mr. Gore, Michael McElroy, warned in a November-December 2006 article in Harvard Magazine that “the production of ethanol from either corn or sugar cane presents a new dilemma: whether the feedstock should be devoted to food or fuel. With increasing use of corn and sugar cane for fuel, a rise in related food prices would seem inevitable.” The article, “The Ethanol Illusion” went so far as to praise Senator McCain for summing up the corn-ethanol energy initiative launched in the United States in 2003 as “highway robbery perpetrated on the American public by Congress.”

In Britain, some hunger-relief and environmental groups have turned sharply against biofuels. “Setting mandatory targets for biofuels before we are aware of their full impact is madness,” Philip Bloomer of Oxfam told the BBC.

Biofuel advocates say they are being made a bogeyman for a food crisis that has much more to do with record oil prices, surging demand in the developing world, and unusual weather patterns. “The people who seek to solely blame ethanol for the food crisis and the rising price of food that we see across the globe are taking a terribly simplistic look at this very complex issue,” Matthew Hartwig of the Renewable Fuels Association said.

Mr. Hartwig said oil companies and food manufacturers are behind the attempt to undercut ethanol. “There is a concerted misinformation campaign being put out there by those people who are threatened by ethanol’s growing prominence in the marketplace,” he said.

The most obvious impact the food crisis has had in America, aside from higher prices, is the imposition of rationing at some warehouse stores to deal with a spike in demand for large quantities of rice, oil, and flour. The CEO of Costco Wholesale Corp., James Sinegal, is blaming press hype for the buying limits, which were first reported Monday in The New York Sun.

“If it hadn’t been picked up and become so prominent in the news, I doubt that we would have had the problems that we’re having in trying to limit it at this point,” Mr. Sinegal told Fox News Thursday. “I mean, I can’t believe the amount of attention that is being paid to this.”

The Sun’s article, which came as food riots were reported abroad, circulated quickly on the Internet, was republished in newspapers as far away as India, and prompted local and network television stories.

Speaking in Kansas City, Mo., yesterday, the federal agriculture secretary, Edward Schafer, blamed emotion for the spurt of rice buying at warehouse stores. “We don’t see any evidence of the lack of availability of rice. There are no supply issues,” he told reporters, according to Reuters.

Go green, starve millions? Maybe not quite, but Ethanol is a mistake.

[Xamindar]

I didn't read through the whole thing.....but what the heck does a rice shortage have to do with corn/ethanol?

[TIGERassault]

By the look of that post, it seems that ThunderBunny just made the Alcohol mistake!

[dissent]

I was listening to a radio report a couple of days ago on NPR. They were talking about rice prices; seems at least another significant factor was a poor wheat harvest in India. This lead India to restrict rice exports in order to have grain supply for their own population. When Thailand saw what India did, they restricted exports as well, and Vietnam promptly followed suit. All this significantly reduced the amount of export rice on the world market, hence driving up prices dramatically.

So Xamindar asks a good question. The rice riots in Haiti and other countries are probably completely unrelated to increases in corn prices and the ramp up in biofuels. But don't leave it to the media to try to explain actual facts to people. Way to go, Josh; \"several countries have blocked the export of grain\" happened first, then the world prices went up and the food riots started.

I won't hold my breath waiting for the media to get a clue.

[Ferno]

I guess none of this has to do with the 100+ dollar barrels of oil.

People keep forgetting about that little detail.

[Cuda68]

We feed enough people in the world who simply snub us in the end. Let them starve and learn a little humility. We need to end foreign aid completely and then see who steps up to help. We really do not need there oil that badly where we are there Bitc*s to knock around.

[TIGERassault]

We feed enough people in the world who simply snub us in the end. Let them starve and learn a little humility. We need to end foreign aid completely and then see who steps up to help. We really do not need there oil that badly where we are there Bitc*s to knock around.

I've made a mental note to never listen to you about world issues now...

[Cuda68]

We feed enough people in the world who simply snub us in the end. Let them starve and learn a little humility. We need to end foreign aid completely and then see who steps up to help. We really do not need there oil that badly where we are there Bitc*s to knock around.

I've made a mental note to never listen to you about world issues now...

Thats OK - not many people do listen to me on that subject anyway

[Ferno]

We feed enough people in the world who simply snub us in the end. Let them starve and learn a little humility. We need to end foreign aid completely and then see who steps up to help. We really do not need there oil that badly where we are there Bitc*s to knock around.

wow dude that's cold. real cold.

[Cuda68]

Yes it is cold. But we give away billions of dollars a year in hard cash, tons and tons of food and send jobs over sea's. We are held responsible for almost anything you can think of from aids to famine to pollution and poverty in the world. We are the giant evil and its all our fault.
I honestly believe that we should live up to this name just a little bit and stop giving to these people and start feeding our own people first.
Is it cold, yes but it is also over due.
Even country's that are well off like Canada go to great length's to bad mouth us. Well I say screw them all and let them fend for them selves for awhile. Let Canada provide for the world and we take a year or two off.

[Ferno]

....and americans wonder why they're considered arrogant.

[Cuda68]

....and americans wonder why they're considered arrogant.

You made my point perfectly - thank you.

Edit: I am one person with an unpopular view point and the whole country gets branded.

[Will Robinson]

....and americans wonder why they're considered arrogant.

No, french Canadians are arrogant, we're just kind of cocky at times.

[TIGERassault]

Yes it is cold. But we give away billions of dollars a year in hard cash, tons and tons of food and send jobs over sea's. We are held responsible for almost anything you can think of from aids to famine to pollution and poverty in the world. We are the giant evil and its all our fault.
I honestly believe that we should live up to this name just a little bit and stop giving to these people and start feeding our own people first.
Is it cold, yes but it is also over due.
Even country's that are well off like Canada go to great length's to bad mouth us. Well I say screw them all and let them fend for them selves for awhile. Let Canada provide for the world and we take a year or two off.

The reason why the other countries in the world badmouth your country is because your country hardly does anything to help poor foreigners. Somehow, restricting the amount of donations you send isn't going to help that reputation.

let them fend for them selves for awhile.

Translation: "Why the hell would I care if thousands of people die every day? I want money and I want it NOW!"

[Cuda68]

Yes it is cold. But we give away billions of dollars a year in hard cash, tons and tons of food and send jobs over sea's. We are held responsible for almost anything you can think of from aids to famine to pollution and poverty in the world. We are the giant evil and its all our fault.
I honestly believe that we should live up to this name just a little bit and stop giving to these people and start feeding our own people first.
Is it cold, yes but it is also over due.
Even country's that are well off like Canada go to great length's to bad mouth us. Well I say screw them all and let them fend for them selves for awhile. Let Canada provide for the world and we take a year or two off.

The reason why the other countries in the world badmouth your country is because your country hardly does anything to help poor foreigners. Somehow, restricting the amount of donations you send isn't going to help that reputation.

let them fend for them selves for awhile.

Translation: "Why the hell would I care if thousands of people die every day? I want money and I want it NOW!"

Actually I do care and do want to help but people who say things like you, yes arrogent you who put words in my mouth
and say I want money and want it now when all I want is a job, since mine was sent over sea's. How can I care when so many people from over sea's say give me more. I have no more to give, I gave up my house, my job and my savings to greedy pigs who cry for more and call me greedy. How about helping us a little and learn to fend for yourselves for a year or two.

[Repo Man]

The reason why the other countries in the world badmouth your country is because your country hardly does anything to help poor foreigners. Somehow, restricting the amount of donations you send isn't going to help that reputation.

That the United States "hardly does anything to help poor foreigners" is such an incredibly idiotic statement, I will not even give you the benefit of a reasoned response.

[dissent]

The reason why the other countries in the world badmouth your country is because your country hardly does anything to help poor foreigners. Somehow, restricting the amount of donations you send isn't going to help that reputation.

Guess that depends on how you define "hardly does anything"
http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bart ... 031119.asp

One principal reason why foreign countries fail to develop prosperity in spite of foreign aid (from anybody, not just the US) is the corruption and incompetence of their own local and/or national governments. Then they turn around and blame the donors. LOL.

Here, this is interesting
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/op ... 194966.php

[Repo Man]

Don't confuse them with the facts, dissent. If the information you posted isn't from a politically-correct source like Noam Chomsky or some other America-hating, Marxist-Leninist, it will just go in one ear and out the other.

[TIGERassault]

Actually I do care and do want to help but people who say things like you, yes arrogent you who put words in my mouth
and say I want money and want it now when all I want is a job, since mine was sent over sea's. How can I care when so many people from over sea's say give me more. I have no more to give, I gave up my house, my job and my savings to greedy pigs who cry for more and call me greedy. How about helping us a little and learn to fend for yourselves for a year or two.

Umm...
You do realise that when a company starts manufacturing in developing countries, it's because the people there are so poor that they'll work for really low wages, right? No company would do that out of charity and pay the workers normal wages, because they'd go bankrupt very, very quickly!

[Repo Man]

Umm...
You do realise that when a company starts manufacturing in developing countries, it's because the people there are so poor that they'll work for really low wages, right? No company would do that out of charity and pay the workers normal wages, because they'd go bankrupt very, very quickly!

Nice try...but no cigar. The people in those countries are dirt poor because of their hopelessly corrupt governments. Those multi-national corporations--who don't think of themselves as Americans, but "citizens of the world" instead--did not go bankrupt when they paid decent wages in recent years past. Welcome to the new "Global Economy" of which the whole ethanol scam is a part.

[ccb056]

We feed enough people in the world who simply snub us in the end. Let them starve and learn a little humility. We need to end foreign aid completely and then see who steps up to help. We really do not need there oil that badly where we are there Bitc*s to knock around.

qft

[Spidey]

Heh, I see I’m not the only one who believes we are the worlds "Fagin".

Umm...

Umm…Do you notice how some people refuse to read the rebukes placed in their faces?

Or...maybe he did read it, and it went in one eye and out the other...

[TIGERassault]

Nice try...but no cigar. The people in those countries are dirt poor because of their hopelessly corrupt governments. Those multi-national corporations--who don't think of themselves as Americans, but "citizens of the world" instead--did not go bankrupt when they paid decent wages in recent years past. Welcome to the new "Global Economy" of which the whole ethanol scam is a part.

Wait, really? When did this start happening?
As in seriously, this is the first I've ever heard of it.

[Spidey]

Really? What do they teach in school these days? When I went to school they at least taught how bad government can lead to poverty. (mostly in Commie countries)

Let me guess, in Ireland they teach that the USA is the main cause of every problem in the world…right.

BTW in America people give right out of their own pockets to private charities, and don’t wait for the government to do it for us. And I don’t see any statistics that any other country comes anywhere close to the private donations we make.

[Ferno]

Edit: I am one person with an unpopular view point and the whole country gets branded.

Easily fixable. don't come off as heartless.

and the problem pretty much fixes itself.

To others outside of your country, you are viewed as the country's representative. Treat people like crap and the natives think the entire country acts like the way you do.

[TIGERassault]

Really? What do they teach in school these days? When I went to school they at least taught how bad government can lead to poverty. (mostly in Commie countries)

Let me guess, in Ireland they teach that the USA is the main cause of every problem in the world…right.

Okay, so I ask when did companies start moving to third-world countries out of charity, and I get given out to about how I don't understand what causes poverty.
Yes, I do know how bad governments lead to poverty. But whatever way you look at it, those government will still be there regardless of how much aid you do or don't send. (unless you want to declare war on half the world, that is)

BTW in America people give right out of their own pockets to private charities, and don’t wait for the government to do it for us. And I don’t see any statistics that any other country comes anywhere close to the private donations we make.

Yes Spidey, that's generally what charitable people do.
I haven't seen any statistics on the matter at all, if all the statistics about donations were just government statistics.

[Cuda68]

Edit: I am one person with an unpopular view point and the whole country gets branded.

Easily fixable. don't come off as heartless.

and the problem pretty much fixes itself.

To others outside of your country, you are viewed as the country's representative. Treat people like crap and the natives think the entire country acts like the way you do.

I disagree with this also. People should see what is being done and how much is being spent outside the country on other nations. I agree with the basic concept of globalization, give the por nations work and means to make money and in the long run war's will decrease since most wars are fought for food or minerals, but not with how its being done. The cost here is just too high. A very large amount of people here have no health insurance, or job for that matter and we listen to people with there hands out demanding we do more. We have to slow down and keep our country stable in order to help. The pot is only so large and we are empting it at too fast a rate. Our government puts unemployment at %4 or so but that's crap. You see only people who are ON unemployment are counted. If your unemployment runs out you receive no more help and you are no longer figured into the stat's. Freeken book keepers did that one to jockey the numbers so they look better.
If everyone lays back and says nothing they will continue in this direction. Its up to the people to speak up and say enough, we need to help our own people before the problem gets out of hand. It has to start some where and for people in other nations to see the financial crises going over here with fuel and the housing market, and demand we give more or we are arrogant is just greedy and wrong. Wake up guy we are almost broke, they pot is almost empty.



Edit: And the DFL'rs want our guns, gee I wonder why.

Thomas Jefferson said:
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere."

[Foil]

...I don’t see any statistics that any other country comes anywhere close to the private donations we make.

In terms of sheer $$, maybe. But from what I understand (I don't have the statistics handy), we lag behind a number of other nations in private giving relative to income (we give roughly 2% of our GNP).

[Cuda68]

Really? What do they teach in school these days? When I went to school they at least taught how bad government can lead to poverty. (mostly in Commie countries)

Let me guess, in Ireland they teach that the USA is the main cause of every problem in the world…right.

Okay, so I ask when did companies start moving to third-world countries out of charity, and I get given out to about how I don't understand what causes poverty.
Yes, I do know how bad governments lead to poverty. But whatever way you look at it, those government will still be there regardless of how much aid you do or don't send. (unless you want to declare war on half the world, that is)

BTW in America people give right out of their own pockets to private charities, and don’t wait for the government to do it for us. And I don’t see any statistics that any other country comes anywhere close to the private donations we make.

Yes Spidey, that's generally what charitable people do.
I haven't seen any statistics on the matter at all, if all the statistics about donations were just government statistics.

The when I am not sure, but is called Globalization. The general meaning or intent is that if poor countries can earn a living they will in the long run stop making war against each other since most wars are fought over money or minerals in some form or other. So if they have a means to earn money the need to make war for it may cease. So what the U.S. has done is make it easier for large corporation to outsource jobs to third world countries in order to give them the means to earn a living. Where the debate comes in is how fast we are doing this and at what cost. You need to research this to form your own thoughts on the matter though, I have my own thoughts on this but you will need time to get yours.

[TIGERassault]

Wake up guy we are almost broke, they pot is almost empty.

Your country is listed by the World Bank as the 8th richest country in terms of GDP per capita, nearly six fold the GDP per capita of the whole world.
So what the heck are you talking about?!
And the more you talk about your job and your money, the more it seems like you only look out for numero uno.

Edit: And the DFL'rs want our guns, gee I wonder why.

And now we have conspiracy theories.

Thomas Jefferson said:
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere."

And now we have a quote about how we should have a civil war and take down the current government via force. Yeah. Because we all know that overthrowing a government for reasons not related to corruption is totally going to be a huge boost to the economy...
Oh, and waiting for that general election to roll out? Oh no, it has to be done by force..



Now, I'll ask one again: what the heck are you talking about?! I have never heard of countries relocating to third-world countries out of charity and not out of greed, your country is not one dollar away from poverty, your country is still one of the worst first-world countries when it comes to donations, poverty-stricken people aren't trying to scab your money from you, and all of this has absolutely nothing to do with a corruption in your government!

[Cuda68]

You took that way out of context. We where discussing why I say what I say and how I am a rep of the country. While I am only one person if I or others don't speak up the Government will continue down its current path thinking everything is just fine, and I disagree, everything is not fine. The Government should listen to its people. I am beginning to believe you just like to argue without reading.


What country are you from BTW?

[flip]

All Governments are corrupt. Most people in this whole world, regardless of nationality and ethnicity, just want to enjoy their lives and their families. It's the people in charge, all over the world, that have these grand ideas.
Globalization eventually means a one world government. All nations will be stripped of their sovereignty, and be subject to one authority. Also consider this: We in America have a Federal Reserve System. There are 7 people in charge last I knew. Europe and China have similar systems (3 biggest world powers). That would leave as many as 21 or as little as 3 people in charge of all the money in the whole world!

[CDN_Merlin]

http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/charity.html

The US gives the most in terms of $$ figures but not in terms of GDP according to this.

But unless we can get rid of the middle man in the receiveing countries, countless of millions will be lost.

[Cuda68]

Individual/private donations may be targeted in many ways. However, even though the charts above do show US aid to be poor (in percentage terms) compared to the rest, the generosity of the American people is far more impressive than their government. Private aid/donation typically through the charity of individual people and organizations can be weighted to certain interests and areas. Nonetheless, it is interesting to note for example, per latest estimates, Americans privately give at least $34 billion overseas—more than twice the US official foreign aid of $15 billion at that time:

* International giving by US foundations: $1.5 billion per year
* Charitable giving by US businesses: $2.8 billion annually
* American NGOs: $6.6 billion in grants, goods and volunteers.
* Religious overseas ministries: $3.4 billion, including health care, literacy training, relief and development.
* US colleges scholarships to foreign students: $1.3 billion
* Personal remittances from the US to developing countries: $18 billion in 2000
* Source: Dr. Carol Adelman, Aid and Comfort, Tech Central Station, 21 August 2002.

Although Adelman admitted that “there are no complete figures for international private giving” she still claimed that Americans are “clearly the most generous on earth in public—but especially in private—giving”. While her assertions should be taken with caution, the numbers are high.

The Center for Global Prosperity, from the Hudson Institute, (whose director is Adelman) published its first Index of Global Philanthropy PDF formatted document in 2006, which contained updated numbers from those stated above. The total of US private giving, since Adelman’s previous report, had increased to a massive $71 billion in 2004. Page 16 of their report breaks it down as follows:

* International giving by US foundations: $3.4 billion
* Charitable giving by US businesses: $4.9 billion
* American NGOs: $9.7
* Religious overseas ministries: $4.5
* US colleges scholarships to foreign students: $1.7 billion
* Personal remittances from the US to developing countries: $47 billion.

While the majority of the increase was personal remittances ($18 bn in 2000 to $47 bn in 2004), other areas has also seen increases.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

The GDP is based on what the Government gives out only, not what the people do on top of that.

[CDN_Merlin]

One thing that bothers me is if we are giving in excess of 100 Billion a year combined (all countries) WTF aren't these 3rd world countries not 1st world countries now? They have enough money being donated and how many people volunteer there.

It's sick.

[TIGERassault]

You took that way out of context. We where discussing why I say what I say and how I am a rep of the country. While I am only one person if I or others don't speak up the Government will continue down its current path thinking everything is just fine, and I disagree, everything is not fine. The Government should listen to its people. I am beginning to believe you just like to argue without reading.

What country are you from BTW?

Then you tell that to the politicians! Violence really is not going to help anything. At all.
Moreso, I'm pretty sure you're of a small minority in this, hence why nothing is being done about it in your favour.

I'm from Ireland.

Globalization eventually means a one world government. All nations will be stripped of their sovereignty, and be subject to one authority.

They won't. Just like the UN isn't.

Also consider this: We in America have a Federal Reserve System. There are 7 people in charge last I knew. Europe and China have similar systems (3 biggest world powers). That would leave as many as 21 or as little as 3 people in charge of all the money in the whole world!

They don't own the money though, they just mandate it. It's to keep a unity when it comes to money in a very large area.

One thing that bothers me is if we are giving in excess of 100 Billion a year combined (all countries) WTF aren't these 3rd world countries not 1st world countries now? They have enough money being donated and how many people volunteer there.

It's sick.

Think about it. Ablout half of the world is third-world. if that's 3 billion people, that's 30 dollars a year of funding per capita. That's not enough.

[Foil]

One thing that bothers me is if we are giving in excess of 100 Billion a year combined (all countries) WTF aren't these 3rd world countries not 1st world countries now? They have enough money...

Think about it. Ablout half of the world is third-world. if that's 3 billion people, that's 30 dollars a year of funding per capita. That's not enough.

$30/person/year... and many people in the U.S. believe that they "can't live on less than $30,000/year".

It's a very rough figure there, but he certainly makes a point, Merlin.

$100 billion is a lot of money, but there are also a lot of people in the world, most of whom get by in a year on what an average North American would spend in a few days. We could also compare that $100 billion to the Gross National Product, to see how relatively small it really is.

----------

Now, with that said... I'm an American, living in affluent Western culture. My wife and I give at least ten percent (the Christian 'tithe') of our income, but if we were to be completely honest, we could certainly give more and survive on much, much less. Of course, that would mean giving up our house for a lesser place, sacrificing the variety in our 'date nights', giving up my computer stuff and internet... but maybe we should.

[Cuda68]

Ireland, The U.S. Government gave over 10 million to Ireland in aid in 2006 and many other fiscal years before and after. No wonder your argument is so loud for more money and charity.

Is Ireland a third world country that needs this aid for food and medicine?

http://rothman.house.gov/news_releases/2006/june19.htm

[Foil]

Cuda, I don't get the impression that he was \"asking for charity for his own country\". I'd say Tiger is making the valid point that people in first-world countries (which includes Ireland as well as the United States) have a relatively very skewed perception of money, especially when it comes to their own.

[Cuda68]

I do understand that, he and I are getting rather personal on this. I have limited humour for people who put words in my mouth or take the meaning out of context.

I am opposed to most of the aid that is given to ungrateful countries when so many people here need it also. The sheer magnitude of the mismanagement of the aid money is a very sore point with me as they demand more money from us.

I have said more than enough on this subject.