Ayers.....

[Bet51987]

...I am all in favor of a fresh approach to government. but changing us from a free market society, to a socialist society is NOT acceptable. it changes the doctrine of the founding Fathers. socialism has been proven over and over NOT to work. and if anyone here thinks for a second that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are not trying to move us into full blown Socialism are either Naieve, have their heads in the sand. or are lazy socialists themselves.

Are the thousands of people who have lost their jobs and retirement pensions because the multi-billion dollar companies they worked for are moving their manufacturing jobs to china for more profit.... lazy socialists?

Are the people who can't afford health care because the large multi-billion pharmecuticals have fixed prices above and beyond the ability of honest people to pay... lazy socialists?

I doubt very much that our founding fathers wouldn't have ended up tweaking it once they found out what corporate greed can do.

Little naïveté

[CUDA]

Are the thousands of people who have lost their jobs and retirement pensions because the multi-billion dollar companies they worked for are moving their manufacturing jobs to china for more profit.... lazy socialists?

nope but you can blame the excessive corporate taxes and the unions for that one. someone needs to pay the expenses to operate or the business goes under.

Are the people who can't afford health care because the large multi-billion pharmecuticals have fixed prices above and beyond the ability of honest people to pay... lazy socialists?

nope see the above and add the Lawyers for that one

I doubt very much that our founding fathers wouldn't have ended up tweaking it once they found out what corporate greed can do.

maybe you should take a Buisness class before you comment on this subject, if you think for one second that it is or will be the corporations that pay those taxes you are Naieve

[Bet51987]

I doubt very much that our founding fathers wouldn't have ended up tweaking it once they found out what corporate greed can do.

maybe you should take a Buisness class before you comment on this subject, if you think for one second that it is or will be the corporations that pay those taxes you are Naieve

Maybe but so far what I've read doesn't support that. Record profits, golden parachutes, billion dollar mergers....

Just look at what the drug companies made AFTER taxes...

Bee

[woodchip]

After Looking at their profits, I suggest you then look at how much of that profit goes toward stock dividends. Then I suggest you look at how many people have their pensions tied into those dividend payments.
Perhaps then you will look at profits in a totally different light.

[VonVulcan]

You want more info on the Obama/Ayers relationship? Here is some interesting, in depth research on just that subject.

http://globallabor.blogspot.com/2008/06 ... rhood.html

It is a long read but extremely well researched.

The conclusion...

I. Conclusion: an academic failure but political success?

The Challenge allowed Barack Obama and Bill Ayers to work together, no doubt closely, in the heat of political battle to help disburse more than $100 million to allies, particularly in the LSCs, in the Chicago School system. Under the circumstances, it seems more than a bit disingenuous of Senator Obama to dismiss Bill Ayers as just “a guy who lives in my neighborhood.”

[Pandora]

Thanks for the patience, Will, I am finally recovered and had a bit of time to do research and write.

The only place where pro democrat fraud could happen is in any polling place that is run by democrats. If there are extra names on the rolls at the end of the night then it doesn't take much effort to stuff the box when everyone in the room is all for it! I think Chicago is world famous for having the most dead people vote, and then the same dead people vote again the next election after having been found out the previous one!

This is not possible. Ohio election law is that in each polling place only 50% can be of one party (you can read up about it here). So, there are no Democrat-only polling places in Ohio that could turn a blind eye. And you can bet that the Republicans would not stand by idly and will have their observers everywhere. So, no, your scenario is not a possibility.

Also note that your scenario does not involve ACORN in any way. I still don't understand how this whole thing there would reveal any wrongdoing on the side of ACORN.

The voters voted absentee! They have already registered and voted and are long gone! They won't be coming back to be available for republican repression tactics!

Ah, but, as far as I understand it, the Republicans don't only want the absentee ballots --- they want ALL registrations (up to 200.000 is the reported number!). And THAT is what Brunner is responding to. Note that this is a particularly critical topic in Cuyahoga, because the Republicans HAVE been investigated for exactly this type of voter fraud after the 2004 election there (bullying, turning voters away on the basis of mismatching registrations, etc.). Even though the Republicans seem to have been cleared, I guess it is understandable that Democrats are still a bit nervous.

If McCain had paid $800,000 this year to an outfit that was manufacturing hundreds of thousands of fraudulent registrations in all the battleground states do you really believe the media would somehow fail to include the most damning evidence available when they reported on it?!?

So even though you are claiming that ACORN is involved in voter fraud you have not brought a single shred of evidence. A large payment does not a crime make (particularly since the payment did not go to ACORN itself but to a partner firm in the same building). I did a bit of research into it, and it seems that in all the years, there has not been a single instance of voter fraud involving ACORN (and that has not been for lack of trying --- the ACORN-voter fraud scare is a recurrent thing every election).

[Spidey]

A woman working for ACORN here in Philadelphia was fired for complaining about fraudulent registrations, she has gone to the authorities and claimed as many as 60% of the registrations were fraudulent.

It’s not proof, but she’s an eye witness.

And if you wish to believe that there is no voter fraud at ACORN, that’s your business, the Republicans are clean as a whistle too.

[Pandora]

A woman working for ACORN here in Philadelphia was fired for complaining about fraudulent registrations, she has gone to the authorities and claimed as many as 60% of the registrations were fraudulent.

Spidey, I mean voter fraud, not registration fraud.

And if you wish to believe that there is no voter fraud at ACORN, that’s your business, the Republicans are clean as a whistle too.

Loved that line!

But: I still can't see how ACORN can affect the election, given that it just turns in registration cards, but not votes.

[Will Robinson]

...Ohio election law is that in each polling place only 50% can be of one party (you can read up about it here). So, there are no Democrat-only polling places in Ohio that could turn a blind eye. And you can bet that the Republicans would not stand by idly and will have their observers everywhere. So, no, your scenario is not a possibility.

Also note that your scenario does not involve ACORN in any way. I still don't understand how this whole thing there would reveal any wrongdoing on the side of ACORN.

Unless you believe the republican observers are going to check the ID of everyone who walks through the door and 'prove' their ID to the people sitting at the tables from where their next move is to enter the booth and push the button then you have to admit a person who knows the name of the ACORN registered fictional character or stolen identity can walk up to the table, show their fake ID and vote under whatever assumed name has been registered!
Without the name being registered it would be a lot easier to catch the voter walking in and making it to the booth.
It's the fact that someone walks in with an ID to match a fraudulent registration that enables the fraudulent vote to take place.

Have you voted here in america? If you have has an observer checked your ID after the nice old lady or old man at the table checked your name against the roll?
I've never been checked and never seen or heard of anyone being checked. I'm sure some are but usually the observers are standing back watching and step up if the routine is broken, if a poll worker starts fumbling through the papers or a prolonged conversation breaks out between the voter and the poll worker. Otherwise thousands of votes per hour take place un-checked other than the old lady looks the name up and if the name on the ID matches the name on the roll she says "go ahead"...

As far as offering concrete proof, if I had it you'd be reading about it in the police report.
I do know that after every election...months after..we read about all sorts of fraudulent votes that were cast in numerous states. Last time it was dead indians in arizona and Idaho, florida had every trick in the book used, as I've said Illinois/Chicago is world famous, the stuff legends are made of! Nixon lost to Kennedy because of Chicago only because of fraud and decided the legal fight wasn't worth it...
Obama may do the same to McCain

Now I don't know if Ohio is an exception to that but I doubt it. And I think it is beyond naive to assume ACORN isn't facilitating this considering how hard they work to get as many fraudulent registrations on the rolls every year! If they were really neutral they would have taken steps to control these so called "rogue" employees they seem to hire every cycle and republicans would be paying them millions too!

[Spidey]

Pandora…

Registration fraud, is the preliminary work to provide voter fraud, what would be the point of registration fraud, if you can’t use it.

The easy way to use it would be to have people with fake IDs, go and vote at many different polling places during the day, it’s not rocket science. Especially here in Philly, where you only have to sign the form to vote. (can’t speak for other places)

In America it’s a tradition for Democrats to engage in false registration, because most live in big citys, and the Republicans to engage in voter denial. (more small town friendly)