What sharia means...

[Nightshade]

Amnesty International Denounces Stoning Death of 13-Year-Old Somali Girl

Sunday, November 02, 2008

MOGADISHU, Somalia — A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants, a human rights group said.

Dozens of men stoned Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow to death Oct. 27 in a stadium packed with 1,000 spectators in the southern port city of Kismayo, Amnesty International and Somali media reported, citing witnesses. The Islamic militia in charge of Kismayo had accused her of adultery after she reported that three men had raped her, the rights group said.

Initial local media reports said Duhulow was 23, but her father told Amnesty International she was 13. Some of the Somali journalists who first reported the killing later told Amnesty International that they had reported she was 23 based upon her physical appearance.

Calls to Somali government officials and the local administration in Kismayo rang unanswered Saturday.

\"This child suffered a horrendous death at the behest of the armed opposition groups who currently control Kismayo,\" David Copeman, Amnesty International's Somalia campaigner, said in a statement Friday.

Somalia is among the world's most violent and impoverished countries. The nation of some 8 million people has not had a functioning government since warlords overthrew a dictator in 1991 then turned on each other.

--------------

Please don't let it get a foothold here as it has in most of Europe and Britain. There haven't been stonings there yet but affairs are moving in that direction.

[Dakatsu]

Somalia is among the world's most violent and impoverished countries. The nation of some 8 million people has not had a functioning government since warlords overthrew a dictator in 1991 then turned on each other.

It's probably because of this, sadly.

[Nightshade]

The \"sharia courts\" is a powerful force in Somali and some African territories. This is the \"order\" that they present to Africa.

[Bet51987]

A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants.

A 13 year-old who said she had been raped was dealt a double blow by her own parents who literally forced her against her will to carry the rapists baby to term after the religious/conservative parents refused to administer the morning after pill.


I see the similarities.

Bee

[TechPro]

Hmmm...

13 year old girl (1 life) was raped and therefore might be carrying a new life inside (possible total of two lives) was stoned to death = possibly two lives removed, at least one removed.

- or -

13 year old girl (1 life) was raped and then carried to term (against her will) a new life (total of two lives) = two lives survive.

Bee, you will probably disagree very strongly with me, but I really don't think that's a valid comparison.

Don't misunderstand me, a rape is a dispicable and horid crime deserving very severe punishment. Stoning a person to death for an act that wasn't their fault is nearly as bad as the rape itself. Also, forcing the raped girl to carry the baby to term is also wrong in that she should have had the chance to choose.

But a life (any life) is extremely valuable, much more than anyone's death. Despite the despicable crime of rape, or the repulsive act of stoning, or all that's wrong with forcing the raped girl to carry the baby ... in the first case one life (with the potential of two lives) is lost while in the second case two lives are spared.

[Bet51987]

Techpro...

In the example you presented I can't argue with the math if your scenario plays out cleanly. However, since you can't guarantee that the girl won't have mental problems severe enough to commit suicide your math could change.

However, I don't agree that all life is valuable. For example, the lives of the Muslim fanatics who stoned that girl to death are not valuable. I still see the similarities too. People who force their ideology on another person against their will that results in harm to that person is no different than the stoner.

I also don't consider the morning after pill given to a 13 year old rape victim a murder just as men don't consider killing sperm a murder. Funny how that is.

Bee

[CUDA]

A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants.

A 13 year-old who said she had been raped was dealt a double blow by her own parents who literally forced her against her will to carry the rapists baby to term after the religious/conservative parents refused to administer the morning after pill.


I see the similarities.

Bee

oh please, that has to be the most asinine thing I've read in a LONG LONG time

[Will Robinson]

Techpro...

In the example you presented I can't argue with the math if your scenario plays out cleanly. However, since you can't guarantee that the girl won't have mental problems severe enough to commit suicide your math could change....

Bee, I think your logic is a bit contrived and you are rationalizing in a way that reminds me of someone in denial.

If parents that force a teen daughter to carry a baby to term and give birth to the baby are, in your mind, going to be equated to Islamic fundamentalists stoning a girl to death because they may, by doing so, cause the young girl to commit suicide over the experience....
Then where do you rate parents who would coerce their daughter into the abortionist clinic to have the fetus sucked through a tube and into a jar to be disposed of like a tumor?

I can tell you, if suicide after the fact is an issue for you then consider two girls, identical circumstances except for one difference.
One has to forever deal with the memory of having her high school years interrupted to give birth and give up the baby for adoption then has to get on with her ever changed life with all the stigma and inconvenience that goes along with it...
And the other girl who has to forever deal with the memory of that vacuum pump and swirling blade on the end of the doctors tool that cleaned the fetus out of her womb and wonder about the baby that would have been....

Which girl has the most to be remorseful and mentally disturbed over? The one who sacrificed her innocence and a big part of her youth but provided life to a baby who is out there somewhere living a hopefully good life? Or the girl who traded that baby's life for some convenience and to avoid the hardship of the circumstances?

No, I think your analogy that the Taliban like fundamentalist stoning the young girl equated with the parents who made the girl have the baby are not nearly as similar as they are to the parents who made the girl have the abortion.
And the repercussions of the two are obviously deeper and darker for the forced-abortion victim compared to the forced-birth victim.

Forcing ones "ideology" doesn't have to be constrained to religious ideology, there are plenty of fundamentalist liberals out there raising children too!!

[Dakatsu]

I remember the time where Bee would reply to every TB thread in utmost agreement... oh the memories!

[Bet51987]

Bee, I think your logic is a bit contrived and you are rationalizing in a way that reminds me of someone in denial.

If parents that force a teen daughter to carry a baby to term and give birth to the baby are, in your mind, going to be equated to Islamic fundamentalists stoning a girl to death because they may, by doing so, cause the young girl to commit suicide over the experience....
Then where do you rate parents who would coerce their daughter into the abortionist clinic to have the fetus sucked through a tube and into a jar to be disposed of like a tumor?

I would rate those parents as first degree murderers..plain and simple. In all my posts dealing with abortion, not once have I ever condoned that.

I can tell you, if suicide after the fact is an issue for you then consider two girls, identical circumstances except for one difference.
One has to forever deal with the memory of having her high school years interrupted to give birth and give up the baby for adoption then has to get on with her ever changed life with all the stigma and inconvenience that goes along with it...
And the other girl who has to forever deal with the memory of that vacuum pump and swirling blade on the end of the doctors tool that cleaned the fetus out of her womb and wonder about the baby that would have been....

Which girl has the most to be remorseful and mentally disturbed over? The one who sacrificed her innocence and a big part of her youth but provided life to a baby who is out there somewhere living a hopefully good life? Or the girl who traded that baby's life for some convenience and to avoid the hardship of the circumstances?

First, and it does matter, I was talking about a 12 year old pre-high school girl far more innocent in her thinking than a high school girl much more into boys. She would have at least six years of ridicule before she got to college... So, that girl's life is basically ruined and knowing that she's having the child of the man who would have killed her is another mental burden. No thanks, I would want out.

Your next girl never had a spinning blade because there was no fetus. Just an invisible cell along with some sperm that no one knows for sure if they met. The doctor simply gave her a pill to stop a possible pregnancy and her parents brought her home to begin a very long recovery. She still has her friends, still has sleepovers with them, and is still accepted. It will take a long time but eventually her ordeal will be put on the back burner.

I can't have that with Sarah Palin or the wackos of her type. I have to bypass the chance to stop something before the girl runs away and gets it done somewhere else..and maybe die. Nice parents. So, because of them, I have to become a monster and vote for whoever and whatever to defeat this kind of ideology.

So, IMO, people who would stop that from taking place are no different than those who stoned that girl.....Sorry.

And Dakatsu....only when he speaks ill of Islam do I agree with him.

Bee

[TechPro]

And Dakatsu....only when he speaks ill of Islam do I agree with him.

Bee

[CUDA]

Bee the ONLY consistency in your thought, is that in each scenario a human life is taken.

[Testiculese]

Did I actually see someone post that life, *any life*, is valuable?

[Will Robinson]

....
Then where do you rate parents who would coerce their daughter into the abortionist clinic to have the fetus sucked through a tube and into a jar to be disposed of like a tumor?

I would rate those parents as first degree murderers..plain and simple. In all my posts dealing with abortion, not once have I ever condoned that.

Ahh, my mistake, I assumed you were simply pro abortion across the board. You do understand that by voting for the pro abortion candidate that you are supporting the position counter to yours in many ways though, right? Sort of accepting the whole ugly late term process for the ability to also have the morning after pill....

I was talking about a 12 year old pre-high school girl....

Your next girl never had a spinning blade because there was no fetus. Just an invisible cell along with some sperm that no one knows for sure if they met. The doctor simply gave her a pill to stop a possible pregnancy and her parents brought her home to begin a very long recovery.

Again, my mistake, I shouldn't be skimming and responding. I saw your analogy that equated stoning a rape victim to death and forcing one to give birth and didn't consider your specific scenario. Although I still think your comparison is flawed, as a father of two daughters I can't say that I wouldn't provide my girls with a morning after pill in those circumstances. In fact I probably would be inclined to push hard for that option.

....She still has her friends, still has sleepovers with them, and is still accepted. It will take a long time but eventually her ordeal will be put on the back burner.

I still think you are simplifying that part. People with things "on the back burner" often boil over into serious trouble, the kind of trouble that leads to that suicide scenario you talked about.

I can't have that with Sarah Palin or the wackos of her type....

Is Palin against providing the morning after pill for raped 12 year olds?