OS Choice ?

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:12 pm

would i be better off going ahead and getting Vista or build a new system with XP 64Bit?

dont want any derailment here, im looking to build a new system with my Xmas $$$

Octopus · Post by **Octopus** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:14 pm

Don't more people use Vista, meaning there's more driver support from 3rd party developers?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:47 pm

Assuming you dump enough RAM into the system, Vista Business x64 runs pretty well. Although at the moment I'm idling at 2120 of 4093 MB system RAM using it. Might be a case of \"4+ GB isn't excessive\". If you can afford 6-8 GB, go for it.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:50 pm

Ubuntu.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:02 pm

okay im planning on getting 4GB Of RAM. Krom im definitely going to hit you up on what stuff to disable, especially the \"big brother\" and DRM crap, if i go Vista.

which version of Vista would be the most beneficial to me? im planning on Vista Ultimate 64-bit or should i go lower? if not Vista then would XP 64 be sufficient?

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:00 am

If your going with XP, then stick with the 32bit, you likely won't notice the difference and you'll be able to find drivers for everything. Lots of printers don't have 64bit drivers, unless its newer. Other than the printers, I think most essential things have the 64 bit drivers now though. Check around for your hardware first before you get it make sure you can get drivers before you get xp64

Some printers have workarounds -but, only works for black and white printing and the scanner functions won't work on your combo printers without the 64 bit drivers

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:31 am

AceCombat wrote:which version of Vista would be the most beneficial to me? im planning on Vista Ultimate 64-bit or should i go lower?

Business = Ultimate with less media center crap. Although actually Home Premium does pretty much everything you would expect from XP Professional.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:40 am

Vista (I'm running the 32-bit at the moment, but planning to go x64 soon) has been completely stable for me, even more so after SP1, so I recommend it.

As to 32 vs. 64-bit driver support, that's a good point. It's probably worth looking into driver availability before choosing which way to go on that one.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:43 am

Kilarin wrote:Ubuntu.

I dunno, I'm about to wipe my Ubuntu box and make it a Windows machine again.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:05 pm

foil wrote: I'm about to wipe my Ubuntu box and make it a Windows machine again.

Ha!

I HAVE had the occasional difficulty with Ubuntu. But I generally had more problems under windows. I use a dual boot system because there are still, rarely, things I can't do in linux that I need windows for. VERY rarely. Biggest issue right now is my Libronix Bible software. Love the software, but it's so heavily integrated with IE that I simply can not make it work under wine. Yet.

As for gaming. It's true that a lot of mainstream games won't work well under linux. BUT, my wife keeps using my Ubuntu machine instead of her Windows machine because she likes a lot of the free games I've got installed on it.

Gekko71 · Post by **Gekko71** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:57 pm

I'm going through this very dilemma myself. I decided to stick with XP simply because I can guarantee complete backwards compatibility with all of my software (some of the stuff I use at home is up to 10 years old - haven't needed to update it yet). Some folks say there shouldn't be a problem with this kind of backwards compatibility - others say the opposite. Myself, I'm not taking any chances.

(I hope I'm not hijacking the thread here, but...) is it true you still need to keep Vista and Laptops apart if at all possible? I'll need to buy one shortly for work purposes and the only ones I can find locally with XP are Netbooks. Do any companies still ship laptops with XP anymore?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:11 pm

Nobody is going to ship a powerful laptop with XP on it anymore because Microsoft placed some restrictions on what XP can be installed on (1 GB of less of RAM, single core CPU under 1 GHz, Hard drive no larger than 80 GB, etc [might not be exactly correct but it is somewhere in the general area]).

But yes, Laptops and Vista are still a fairly poor mix, however it can be overcome by picking a laptop that can support 4 GB of memory (or more) and getting a 7200 RPM laptop hard drive (or a single level cell or Intel SSD). Basically the reason desktops run Vista better than laptops is because desktops have much faster hard drives and usually have more system memory, both of which Vista hits much harder than XP. Also laptop video chipsets are almost a joke in comparison to their desktop counterparts but that doesn't hurt Vista so much as it hurts gaming in general.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:12 pm

Foil wrote:[comic]

I thought that that was a plug for Linux when I originally read it, but I suppose I can see how it could be interpreted negatively after reading over it again.

Personally, I just find Windows to be too confusing and too nondeterministic. Linux appeals to the scientist in me and is much more amenable to the scientific method. When I learned Windows, I was just learning Windows proper (Windows registry, Windows control panel, whatever), whereas I've found that learning Linux comes much closer to understanding actual issues in computer science. But I can understand how that doesn't appeal to everyone.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:22 pm

Krom wrote:Nobody is going to ship a powerful laptop with XP on it anymore because Microsoft placed some restrictions on what XP can be installed on (1 GB of less of RAM, single core CPU under 1 GHz, Hard drive no larger than 80 GB, etc [might not be exactly correct but it is somewhere in the general area]).

I order systems with XP Professional all the time as a Premier partner with Dell.

Option is available on most PC MFG sites - all you have to do is click the Business link

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:24 pm

okay it looks like 8GB of RAM is going to be okay $$$ wise, so now now back the core question.....

XP or Vista?

if any of you are wondering, this is what im planning on building.

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813121336

CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115037

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231151

Video: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130416

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822148288

then add on 2x Asus DRW-2014S1 Black DVD Burners, another Seagate Barricuda .11 SATA 500GB Drive and a Zion 650 Watt PSU from my current box. and this is what you get for about 600$

Krom wrote:Nobody is going to ship a powerful laptop with XP on it anymore because Microsoft placed some restrictions on what XP can be installed on (1 GB of less of RAM, single core CPU under 1 GHz, Hard drive no larger than 80 GB, etc [might not be exactly correct but it is somewhere in the general area]).

where did you read or find out about this?

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:32 pm

AceCombat wrote:...now now back the core question.....

XP or Vista?

That machine, my vote is definitely Vista. Either way, you're not going to be able to use all 8Gb of RAM unless you go 64-bit.

---------------

As to the laptop question, my wife is running Vista on a cheap (<$300) laptop with 1Gb RAM & 120Gb HD. I simply turned Aero and indexing off, and it works just fine, no issues whatsoever.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:36 pm

okay so Vista 64... now.... will BF2 and that generation of games work on it?

BF2 is my primary game of choice ATM. and i gotta have it running without problems

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:41 am

there is supposed to be a patch out for BF2 soon.

then again, if that is a major requirement, then why bother with a 64-bit os in the first place?

which versions of vista come with both 32 and 64-bit versions? Vista does a have a trial mode, which should be enough for you to decide if its worth it.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:53 pm

I'd kind of hope BF2 would work by now. It isn't like nobody plays it. Let's see...

Google seems to indicate generally yes, some people had problems in early 2007 though. I'd guess any actual issues should have been patched by now.

Something tells me the problems are more likely going to be with drivers... but if you're building a new machine anyway...

Neo · Post by **Neo** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:33 pm

I'd say use Windows XP Professional, and wait for Windows 7. =P

If you have to get something Vista-ish, I'd say you might want to try Windows Server 2008; I heard good things about it. ^_^

edit: Actually, I'm going to upgrade to quad cores and GeForce GTX or better before I use Windows Server 2008 as a serious replacement for my operating system. =P

heh Ace, your system is going to be almost identical to mine. x_x lol

captain_twinkie · Post by **captain_twinkie** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:15 pm

I have Vista 64 Bit and it runs BF2 fine

CritterB · Post by **CritterB** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:34 pm

I run BF2 and BF 2142 on Vista Business 64 with no problems except for an occasional issue with my X-fi and Teamspeak. I think that's more on Teamspeak since we've been waiting on 3.0 forever.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:14 pm

My wife just bought a laptop with xp pro on it...brand new from Dell: dual core, 2 gigs of RAM, the works. Slickdeals just ran a post on the same laptop for $550 or so...
You just have to search for xp if you want it on a laptop.

OP: XP. Wait for the next iteration of windows and skip Vista altogether

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:46 am

AceCombat wrote: XP or Vista?

If you really have to ask....PLEASE save your sanity and get XP, do not downgrade to Vista. I work for AT&T Internet support and can tell you Vista is the worst piece of crap that MS has ever produced. It has so many obscure issues it's sad it ever made it out of testing. But it goes to show you what utter crap people will accept these days.

XP on the other hand only seems to mess up when people get spyware/viri on it with the exception of that little issue with SP3 killing dns. But even that is rare.

But seriously, if you really have to ask then stick with XP or wait until Windows 7 (if that ever makes it out this next year).

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:19 am

Foil wrote:
Kilarin wrote:Ubuntu.
I dunno, I'm about to wipe my Ubuntu box and make it a Windows machine again.

I am in North Denver and would be glad to help you out. I also work in south Denver so I am all over the metro on any given day. Don't go back to Microsoft's brain washing.

EngDrewman · Post by **EngDrewman** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:29 pm

Windows is slow and has viruses; Linux has compatibility issues. That's why I dual boot Windows and Linux- when one fails, the other one is there as a backup. This has saved my butt on numerous occasions, like the time when Windows decided to die right in the busiest part of one of my semesters at college (and for that, in the middle of an essay

).

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:37 pm

How stable windows (and linux to some extent) is can depend on the quality of the hardware and how good you are at maintaining the software. If you want your windows system to be rock solid stable, buy hardware that has been around for 6-9 months already and has all the bugs worked out. In the case of linux, the main issue is going to be finding proper driver support and older hardware can help with that too. Avoid the brand new shiny cutting edge technology since it is almost always rushed to market before it is really ready for demanding tasks that also need high reliability. And of course, overclocking outside of moderation will make a system unstable no matter how proven reliable and impressive the hardware is.

If you don't fall into those pitfalls it is fairly easy to get a windows system that only needs to be rebooted for windows update, driver updates and new software installs that call for it. As long as you properly maintain the system and don't take chances with malware you can have a windows box that runs 24/7 with absolute confidence.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 am

Cuda68 wrote:I am in North Denver and would be glad to help you out. I also work in south Denver so I am all over the metro on any given day. Don't go back to Microsoft's brain washing.

I appreciate the offer; feel free to drop by my office someday, I'm down in the Tech Center area.

But "brainwashing"?

Cuda, I'm a software engineer. I don't use MS products because I've been duped somehow, I use them because they work.

I code primarily in MS Visual Studio, on an OpenGL/DirectX/GDI app in a Windows/MFC/multi-doc environment. Frankly, I even prefer Vista at home... why? Because in my experience (which goes back to MS-DOS 5) their products have been completely stable, they do exactly what I need, they have excellent documentation, compatibility has never been an issue, and they just plain work with very little effort.

My experience with Ubuntu was: It worked fine most of the time, but if I wanted it to do anything useful, I had to spend at least a couple of hours working on configuration, or installing some virtual/emulation package. Sure, I enjoy tweaking things for performance and such... but I don't have time for it anymore. That's why the Ubuntu box I was playing around with is getting wiped; it's more effort than it's worth.

Krom wrote:As long as you properly maintain the system and don't take chances with malware you can have a windows box that runs 24/7 with absolute confidence.

Exactly! Last crash I had on any of my Windows boxes (all but the laptop run 24/7) was months ago, and it was a hardware issue.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:21 pm

Krom wrote:you can have a windows box that runs 24/7 with absolute confidence.

mine already does, its been running 24/7 for the last year now

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:42 am

AceCombat wrote:
Krom wrote:you can have a windows box that runs 24/7 with absolute confidence.

mine already does, its been running 24/7 for the last year now

Windows 98 has been a good workhorse for my store for the last 8 years.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:44 pm

Probably wouldn't want to expose it to the Internet, but for anything else, yeah sure.

Most of the people I know who actually use Vista don't complain about it any more. I'd guess those driver issues have been worked out, and anything else just comes down to personal preference. That said, if you're running legacy Win3.1 or DOS software you should be cautious, as it can't be assumed it'll still run. Most people outside of businesses won't be in that basket though.

Gekko71 · Post by **Gekko71** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:10 am

Sirius wrote:Probably wouldn't want to expose it to the Internet, but for anything else, yeah sure.

Most of the people I know who actually use Vista don't complain about it any more. I'd guess those driver issues have been worked out, and anything else just comes down to personal preference. That said, if you're running legacy Win3.1 or DOS software you should be cautious, as it can't be assumed it'll still run. Most people outside of businesses won't be in that basket though.

If you're going to do lots of video editing I would still suggest you stay with XP. I have to do a lot of video dubbing and transfer in my job, usually from DVDs with DRM / copy protection in place. I have found this near impossible so far with Vista (I admit it could just be the systems I work on that are out of whack).

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:38 pm

no not into doing ripping and whatnot..... just interested in what my best choice would be for the hardware i posted. Gaming is my primary function here. some MP3 stuff and hardly any video editing

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:51 pm

64 bit Vista is going to be the most gaming future proof OS out of the two. Just make sure you have lots of memory...

At the risk of repeating myself: right now in 32 bit XP my system is using 574 MB of the 3326 MB available (4 GB total - address space limits), in Vista 64, immediately after boot up it would be using between 1100 and 1400 MB, and after a day or two of running, it would be up to as much as 2300-2700 MB at idle using virtually the same software and configuration. I probably should have tested it with 6 GB installed, but I imagine it would have still gone even higher. So don't spare the memory, get a minimum of 6-8 GB depending on the processor you use. Even 12 GB wouldn't be a bad idea on a Core i7 system.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:46 pm

Ever try turning off superfetch?

What amazes me is how an OS that loads just about every program you have into memory can still take 20 or more seconds to launch a word processor.

I like Vista, it’s smooth and stable…and slow.

EDIT:

If you add more memory to a Vista box, Superfetch will just add that much more program data to memory, but on the bright side while being dumb, Superfetch is not stupid, it will always leave enuf memory free for the system.

So add all the memory you want, it will prolly just get used by Superfetch anyway, and still leave you with just enuf. And turning it off will prolly grind your machine to a crawl, like turning off that prefetch program in Win3.1 that loaded in the bat file. (I forget what it was called)

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:33 pm

UPDATE:

the original mobo that i picked out has gone out of stock..... so now im torn between these two:

DFI LP JR P45-T2RS LGA 775 Intel P45

or a

Intel BOXDQ45CB LGA 775 Intel Q45

help me decide please

if i get the DFI im definitely going to go SLI

i also bumped the 8400 to a 8500 C2D CPU and am considering taking it to a 8600

FINAL UPDATE:

scratch the Intel board its not a gaming board

here is the build im saving up for with XMAS Money and my low pay job:

Board: DFI LP P45-T2RS
NOTE: The ONLY SLI Micro ATX Motherboard available

CPU: Wolfdale 3.33GHz C2D

RAM: OCZ Platinum 8GB 4x 2GB DDRII 800

Video: 2x eVGA 9800GT Super Clocked PCI-E Cards

HDD: 2x Seagate 7200.11 Barracuda 500 GB 32MB Cache

NOTE: im taking one from my current machine and putting it into this one.

Optical: 2x Asus 2014S1 DVD Burners

NOTE: These will also come out of my current machine

OS: Vista Ultimate 64Bit OEM

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