Digital TV

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:53 pm

All analog TVs will not be able to pick up on-air TV stations without digital tuners. Any older TVs you have (basically any TVs before 2003 or so) will need a digital tuner box to continue to be useful.

Here's where Uncle Sam steps in for you:

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

They're sending up to $80 worth of coupons for up to two tuners per household.

If you don't have cable TV or have some older extra TVs that don't have tuners, better snap these up!

Deadline is Dec. 31st!

(That is, US residents only...sorry Aussies, Canuks and so on.)

shaktazuki · Post by **shaktazuki** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:59 pm

ThunderBunny wrote:All analog TVs will not be able to pick up on-air TV stations without digital tuners. Any older TVs you have (basically any TVs before 2003 or so) will need a digital tuner box to continue to be useful.

Here's where Uncle Sam steps in for you:

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

They're sending up to $80 worth of coupons for up to two tuners per household.

If you don't have cable TV or have some older extra TVs that don't have tuners, better snap these up!

Deadline is Dec. 31st!

(That is, US residents only...sorry Aussies, Canuks and so on.)

Great! Since the gov't is forcing analog stations off the air, the least they can do is buy me two converters so I can continue to not watch commercial TV! (that is, I don't watch TV, but since they're using and devaluing my money to do all of this, I might as well burn my share.)

Octopus · Post by **Octopus** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:01 am

yup they'll do that

SuperSheep · Post by **SuperSheep** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:25 am

Got mine since we got two older TV's. Thanks!

Octopus · Post by **Octopus** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:16 am

Mom has one. Doesn't like it.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:57 pm

I think it's hilarious that there has been banner ads on TV for the past 6 months or so warning people about the switch over. It's almost like the gubment has a vested interest in all of us staying hooked on TV.

There's a conspiracy theory in there somewhere.

Octopus · Post by **Octopus** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:26 pm

Fat and dumb doesn't protest.

SuperSheep · Post by **SuperSheep** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:42 pm

Got my coupons!!! Whoop!

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:48 pm

We got one. Digital is great unless you have a weak signal, then it's worse than analog. At least with analog a weak signal is still comprehensible, though not pretty. With digital the video gets artifacts (like a corrupted AVI or something) and the sound cuts in and out.

Weather Channel: \"the tornado has touched down, and will be tearing through *blip* *garbled image*... and *blip*... counties at a speed of 100MPH!\"

I believe the driving force behind the change was UHF bandwidth... digital television takes up less of it (requiring a smaller range, I believe), leaving the rest for whatever else they've had in their craw.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:23 pm

They can now use the VHF spectrum since it allows them to broadcast farther and more cheaply (less power), thanks to intense lobbying by the broadcasters. Plus they also wanted to keep their old low channel numbers as a side benefit. So now you may need both a UHF and a VHF antenna since broadcasters can use either spectrum now. You can go here to see in the U.S. who's broadcasting in VHF or UHF within your area and the exact distance and direction for aiming your antenna.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Also, the digital standard adopted by the U.S. is not as robust and error tolerant as the newer standard used in other countries. The downside is it requires a more precisely pointed antenna to get a picture. Another gotcha is if you get TV from a translator, in other words, you live way out in the sticks, you may not get DTV for awhile since the FCC gave no time limit for changing those over to digital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television

But in a city with lots of buildings, you may not even receive certain stations because of building reflections that cause back-lobe interference on many antennas. In the old analog days, you'd get ghosting. Now you'll get either perfect picture, pixel art, no audio or nothing, no in-between picture with the quality standard here in the U.S. Also remember, DTV is not the same as HDTV.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:57 pm

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:07 am

Uh oh! Better hurry if you want a converter box coupon!

<HERE>

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:00 pm

It was my understanding that the airwaves, T.V and radio in particular where protected from such action. The reasoning was the emergency alert system. So what happens to that now. Lets say in Cali or some other earth quake prone area or flood area takes a wack, the infrastructure goes down, how can we communicate to them on rescue information or what-ever?

Sedwick · Post by **Sedwick** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:18 pm

tunnelcat wrote:Uh oh! Better hurry if you want a converter box coupon!

<HERE>

Well, hey, since when have govt programs ever been good with money? That's just stupid...

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:30 pm

What's really stupid is that the government DID NOT MANDATE that TV manufacturers put in digital tuners in ALL SIZES of new TV sets when this digital transistion was announced WAY BACK WHEN.

CORD · Post by **CORD** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:17 pm

No they didn't mandate that all manufacturers install digital tuners. I think the reasoning was that this conversion to digital broadcasting doesn't affect 100% of all broadcasting. It only requires FULL POWER broadcasting stations to convert to all digital. That means there will be a lot of smaller stations that won't have to convert. And that means if all tv's had only digital tuners, then the remaining analog broadcasters won't have an audience. Also, this conversion (for full power stations) doesn't mean that we lose all analog broadcasting. It'll still be there, even on cable systems.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:26 pm

You seem to be forgetting that most cable boxes/DVRs/VCRs/everything else still output analog signals over coax. TVs will continue to have analog tuners for quite some time because of that.

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:06 am

Emergency Alert System equipment is not affected by the digital transition.

Also, TV manufacturers were required to include digital tuners in all their new TV's by sometime last year. They just weren't forced to get rid of the analog tuner.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:53 am

The problem was when digital tuners started showing up in TV's, they were only mandated to be put in the large sets, 25 to 35 inch and larger, not the smaller ones. Those were sold as 'monitors' with only an analog tuner, so noob idiots in early 2006 expecting a less than 25 inch digital TV to be able to receive DTV were sorely disappointed. Only by 3/2007 were ALL TV sizes down to 13 inch required to have digital tuners. If the government had wanted to be fair to consumers, they would have mandated by 3/2006, ALL new sets above 13 inch have both an analog and digital tuner for the transition.

TV SIZE INFO

We bought a Samsung 26 inch flat panel in early 2006. It had an analog tuner but we had to buy a separate digital tuner box, about $300 more, to watch the digital HDTV signals that were being broadcast out of Eugene at the time. But we knew in advance we would have to buy the separate digital tuner for this sized TV to see DTV. It would have been much nicer if these cheap manufacturers had just included a built-in digital tuner in their smaller sets and charged a slightly higher price, but you couldn't even find one back then.

Another issue is the lack of unscrambled QAM Digital tuners for cable signals in a lot of TV sets, although they are regularly showing up in higher end TV's now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_tuner

Also, the cable companies want their 'In Demand' crap and full control over a separate cable box, so they've been fighting the use built-in scrambled QAM tuners for viewing those scrambled cable signals. I've heard that the cable companies may have acquiesced to the Cablecard 2.0 standard that supports two-way interaction (In-Demand) and thusly we may see scrambled QAM tuners in TV's, eventually............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:52 am

Well, manufacturers had to redesign all their TV's, and getting all that done by 2006 was unrealistic anyway.

Having the cable box allows the cable industry to launch new technology without requiring you to buy a new tv. Also, they have had alot of problems with the cable cards. They were a good idea, but evidently they don't work with some TV's and the cards themselves have proven unreliable.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:12 pm

Capm wrote:Well, manufacturers had to redesign all their TV's, and getting all that done by 2006 was unrealistic anyway.

Cripes! They had ten years to do it! Digital transmissions commenced in limited areas in 1998 and the start of the changeover was mandated in 1996!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:35 pm

Yeah, also saying they had to redesign all their TVs is a bit of a stretch, the tuner is only one part of the picture. This was purely profit motivated, digital tuners cost more and would nibble at the margins.

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:14 pm

And now ... The Consumers Union want Congress to delay the transition, and Obama supports that idea.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Government-IT/ ... DTV-Delay/

Sedwick · Post by **Sedwick** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:08 pm

I've also heard Time Warner Cable might phase out analog downsampling by 2010.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:33 pm

Heh, why should Obama be for delaying the transition, won’t going out and buying converter boxes and new TVs help stimulate the economy?

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:39 pm

I ran a TV repair shop over 10 years and I can tell you people are addicted to TV and literally go crazy if they don't have it. I just say no to TV repair now.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:25 pm

I only want to go crazy when I am someplace with no internet (but I get over it after a day or two, less if I bring books). I only watch TV for any length of time when I can't access the internet.

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