Peace by religious appeasement

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:42 pm

We need to promote peace and education Foil. We need to actually practice what we preach. We need to eliminate the poverty, sickness and fear.

This takes away the basal reasons for joining a terrorist group in the first place. We have the capability to do it but instead we choose to drop multi-million dollar smart bombs on compounds, and kill 50 innocent people to get one \"bad\" person that doesn't want to bend over to the Christians and the USA.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:40 pm

education? what? why? That won't help. Nothing helps unless you get someone to care.

This may sound like a flip answer (and it is in part) but it's the truth. I'm too hungry to expound on it. oh.. \"education\" hasn't helped bring down teen pregnacy in 30 years.

flip · Post by **flip** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:51 pm

This may sound like a flip answer (and it is in part) but it's the truth.

I can live with that. Too many words and the point gets obscured anyways

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:02 pm

Canuck wrote: We need to promote peace and education Foil. We need to actually practice what we preach. We need to eliminate the poverty, sickness and fear.

This takes away the basal reasons for joining a terrorist group in the first place. We have the capability to do it but instead we choose to drop multi-million dollar smart bombs on compounds, and kill 50 innocent people to get one "bad" person that doesn't want to bend over to the Christians and the USA.

You called me clueless. Now it's my turn. Look at the Burkas worn in Afghanistan and the blind eye the world had. The terrorist groups are the very people who fight to get Sharia law implemented throughout the world....

Bee

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:35 pm

Basically it boils down to concessions to people who's religion tells them that they will rule the world. And if that doesn't bother you then you're in state-sponsored denial.

Speaking of burkas, isn't it interesting that Islam claims to be an Abramic religion, but Abraham had to tell the men of a certain city that Sarah was his sister so that they wouldn't kill him on account of her beauty. The same with his son, Isaac, and his wife. God through Moses layed down a lot of extremely strict laws--\"the law\"--but I've never read of anything like a burka being required. Jesus came to make people free from the righteous law that he rightly shows can only condemn our sinful natures. Mohammed came to further enslave them in the face of that free gift. He calls Jesus a prophet but doesn't believe his message. Jesus didn't so much as defend himself, and he and his disciples were in a time that was very hostile toward them. Mohammed, I've heard, was a murderer.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:40 am

Bet51987 wrote:
Canuck wrote: We need to promote peace and education Foil. We need to actually practice what we preach. We need to eliminate the poverty, sickness and fear.

This takes away the basal reasons for joining a terrorist group in the first place. We have the capability to do it but instead we choose to drop multi-million dollar smart bombs on compounds, and kill 50 innocent people to get one "bad" person that doesn't want to bend over to the Christians and the USA.
You called me clueless. Now it's my turn. Look at the Burkas worn in Afghanistan and the blind eye the world had. The terrorist groups are the very people who fight to get Sharia law implemented throughout the world....

Bee

Umm where did I call you clueless?

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:43 am

This takes away the basal reasons for joining a terrorist group in the first place. We have the capability to do it but instead we choose to drop multi-million dollar smart bombs on compounds, and kill 50 innocent people to get one \"bad\" person that doesn't want to bend over to the Christians and the USA.

If thre is a more clueless statement than that, I don't know what it is.

The Taliban- and many islamic jihadists do NOT engage in killing out of dispair...they engage in jihad out of hope. They hope to destroy all other forms of living but theirs.

By saying that muslims are 'bending over' to the christians- you're spouting jihadist propaganda there canuck. You might as well be writing for the taliban.

Christians aren't going around burning synagogues, beating men for not wearing the right facial hair, beating and raping women for not being christian and/or destroying record and video stores. Guess which 'religious' men are?

muslims.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:00 pm

Canuck wrote: Umm where did I call you clueless?

In the other thread when you told me I was clueless as to what the Koran was about.

I was just being naughty here.

Bee

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:05 am

TB I haven't met any Muslims here that wants to beat me up or kill me. Matter of fact they invite me into their home and I have a nice supper with them and visit. I think you mean extremist Muslmins. And Catholics never killed?

So maybe the Muslims you are meeting must be the extremists? Or are you talking to any Muslims at all? Because I suspect from the crap you post you really haven't the mindset or the balls to actually learn anything but racism and regurgitate rhetoric.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:32 am

Haven't you learned anything here Canuck? the most active posters in this forum would rather read crackpot blogs and agree with close-minded comments than actually going out and asking questions. Reasoning with them simply does not work.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:05 am

I operate under the assumption that most people will not admit when their religion tells them they will subjugate the whole world (or have a world of their own, as the case may be). Of course I guess TB's experience was the exception, if you'll remember him relating it.

Some things just aren't dinner conversation...

It's entirely possible, in my mind, that your friends don't subscribe to that. Maybe they're just trying to make a living. Islam is what it is, though, and unless they are actually opposed to subjugation in the name of \"Alah\" I wouldn't necessarily count them out in the event of a popular Muslim movement to set up Alah as the only \"God\".

History isn't over.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:24 pm

Yes, I have in fact met many muslims. They seemed friendly enough- several of my father's ESL students from the UAE (United Arab Emerates) a few years ago. We went to their apartment and ate boiled chicken and rice with our fingers and traded stories. Shortly after dinner, they sat with us in their communal living room on base (Ft. Bliss - as they were training to use SAIC equipment presumably in the armed forces - or security of the UAE). The students then promptly brought out a Koran and asked us if we knew of islam. They proceeded (in broken english) to tell us that we should accept islam and to do it promptly before we were \"6 feet under.\" I'm assuming they wanted us to convert because they were afraid for our eternal souls- and they said so with smiles and in friendly circumstances. They are true believers.

There is no \"moderate\" islam...simply \"moderate\" muslims. Many of their brothers are committed to jihad to kill unbelievers- though they ALL want us to be muslims as there is no other \"true\" faith in their eyes.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:25 pm

Read please.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:21 am

The same could be said about the jehovah's witnesses that come knocking on your door and the christians who try and convert you.

Sedwick · Post by **Sedwick** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:47 am

Bet51987 wrote:I've always imagined other worlds and civilizations beyond our reach. I also imagine worlds that are at the right distance from their sun, have blue skys, oceans, balmy temperatures, and beautiful foliage only to be devoid of any intelligent life. For what purpose would those planets that form, exist, and then burn out without anyone seeing them, serve the bible God. What reasoning would a God of the bible have for a universe so vast that humans can never visit anything. I know I'm rambling but looking at the big picture, the bible God makes no sense.

To our feeble human minds, no, He doesn't.

I'm going to take a guess that such interstellar curiosities are meant to inspire man to at least try to visit them, which has already lead to the development of many technologies with the potential to ease suffering and thus foster the spread of His love.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:54 am

JD exactly... I've been insulted, cajoled, and ridiculed by the Catholic, born-agains, and JW's more than any other religion so far. Just my own experiences.

Some of the comments;
I'm going to Hell if I don't believe in their religion
Man is the apex of all creation

The World is ending Oct. 31 - Insert Year here

Animals have no souls
Speaking in tongues = God's Spirit is tuning in? ;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia <Okely Dokely, your off the Customer service desk and on to hammering things out back duty, preferably not yourself or others>
Aliens don't exist, and if I believe in them I'm going to Hell.

The actions of these people speak louder than their words as well. I call them narrow minded and to a T none of them practiced what they preached.

Since I've been on my own I've lived with a fair amount of different cultures and religions. I learned there are many different versions of these religions and different interpretations of the texts they follow. There are different sects per say or \"translations\" of these books, some are weirder than others. I'm sorry TB met the JW-Muslim hybrid, but to tell you the truth I never had a Muslim tell me I'm going to hell or even pump their religion to me.
I had a few bad experiences with Muslims as well... rotten apples everywhere but that doesn't mean all Muslims act like they do. I never believed in re-incarnation but after meeting the neighbors dog and his reactions to me according to the Owners, I have to not quite rule it out. After all Nature recycles everything else... why not souls?

* JD it's like banging your head against a wall here. According to TB I'm writin' fer the Taliban.
And the never ending broken record rhetoric with blinders on gets old fast. Wow.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:08 pm

It's been my experience (by in large) that the pentecostal church on the whole has a poor understanding of what \"speaking in tongues\" means or looks like; even though it's what that denomination is (these days) based around. It was founded on some other things, but that's given way to sensationalism and outward holyness. bleh. Mind you, this is a generalization and does not apply to every last individual within that denomination.

Where asian Muslims are concerned. there is something that you need to understand. this is their LIFE. It's not something they do once a week in a fancy building. The way they perceive their religion is alien to most westerners. So yeah, when TB writes about these groups and sub-groups it looks extreme. (and is) but that is who they ARE. I talked at length with a Muslim co-worker and we both learned a lot. The way that they perceive life on the whole is much different than us. That's really all there is too it. They live from the inside out, while western culture (on the whole) lives from the outside in. .. that's about the best way I can describe it.

And Canuck, for the record. You will go to hell if you don't receive and follow Christ. Everyone will. If you don't want to be with God, then He won't force you, but your options are limited. (but that's the negative side of the coin)

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:25 pm

Well if God is going to curse me to an eternity of misery, that’s his choice, don’t go blaming me.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:39 pm

Are you guys purposely trying to confuse the issue? Is the fact that any religion says we ought to convert really the point?

Freedom of conscience was one of the primary reasons that people came to America from Europe. We are free to follow our own conscience, in America, and that right is preserved in our founding documents, but unless I am very much mistaken that is a foreign concept in these Muslim nations. That's not a coincidence.

Foil wrote:As a Christian and a feminist, there's nothing in the Bible which infuriates me.

Had to address this. If nothing in the Bible infuriates you, then perhaps you'd better adopt a different label. "feminist" has an accepted meaning and a known group behind it. I know feminists would have a problem with 1 Timothy 2:11-15...

1 Timothy 2 wrote:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

The Bible says you're to blame, Spidey. You sound like a rebellious teenager.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:08 pm

Well at least I can sound like one.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:54 pm

Duper, cant you go to Hell for condemning someone to Hell? I don't wish you to go to Hell man... I think that's just terrible. What right do you have to preach and say this to me? I believe you have the right to disagree with me, but what you said is just plain rude and perfectly illustrates the attitude you have to others beliefs, and is in fact part of the problem with the issues being discussed here.

You don't know me at all. I'm the type of guy that helps stranded motorists, gives money and food to the real poor, and helps out someone when in need. So I am going to Hell for that?

I thought your God is supposed the one judging and making these decisions not you, did you fill in an application form for an assistant to that job? And in the big picture, what if... just if your wrong or only partially right?

Not being able to accept other beliefs or try to at least understand them is whats wrong here.

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:17 pm

Hell! If nothing else you SHOULD be able to hear heaven with them ears Canuck.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:49 pm

LOL Canuck. by \"you\" I meant in the general sense. While it applies you specifically, it also applies to me.

Remember the parable of the sheep and goats. The final words of judgement: \"I never knew you, leave me.\" Jesus uses this anology several times and it represents if we are called by His name; like the way a wife takes her husband's name. Christianity isn't \"fire insurance\". Christ made it possible for us to know God without a intermediary like was needed within the Law given to Moses. It's about life. It's about relationship. It's not a \"get out of jail card\".

I can not comdemn you to eternal judgement, nor would I. I do not have that authority. No man does. That belongs to God alone. I have read the rule book however.

My final paragraph is based on simple doctrine. The scriptures are very plain about it.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:23 pm

Duper is right Canuck..

If you throw out every single word in the Christian bible except for the words in the palm of your hand, those words would be: \"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.\"

It's a powerful yet simple statement which means that if you truly believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was crucified in your place, buried, and rose again as your saviour, you will be forgiven for all your earthly sins and will receive eternal life.

If you don't, you burn.

Bee

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:43 pm

ROFL if you say so. I happen to believe something different... get over it.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:51 pm

? then why'd you throw such a fuss?

...yeah....

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:00 pm

Canuck wrote:ROFL if you say so. I happen to believe something different... get over it.

Nothing to get over Canuck. I only clarified the Christian view on the subject of hell. Like you, I beat to a different drum.

Bee

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:09 pm

Bet51987 wrote:Duper is right Canuck..

If you throw out every single word in the Christian bible except for the words in the palm of your hand, those words would be: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It's a powerful yet simple statement which means that if you truly believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was crucified in your place, buried, and rose again as your saviour, you will be forgiven for all your earthly sins and will receive eternal life.

If you don't, you burn.

Bee

You sound like a prophet right now. Where do you get off prioritizing ★■◆● that was written thousands of years ago?

All hail Bettina??

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:47 pm

She hit it spot on. Nicely done.

Unfortunately, what most only hear is the \"or you'll burn\". and walk way.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:31 pm

I consider it rude to tell people such things... I liken it to eat &^%* and die.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:34 pm

Canuck wrote:I consider it rude to tell people such things... I liken it to eat &^%* and die.

I accept and understand your belief.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:17 pm

Canuck wrote:I consider it rude to tell people such things... I liken it to eat &^%* and die.

It was Jesus that said those things....

Bee

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:12 pm

Canuck wrote:I consider it rude to tell people such things... I liken it to eat &^%* and die.

I quite agree. Like all things, there is a time and place for that kinda thing, but it's not common place. Normally, that kind of reprimand is leveled at believers that know better.

That is why I called it the negative side of the coin. Sure it's a consequence, but there are many more positive things to concider than "fire protection". Jesus said that He came to give us live and give it more abundantly. There is freedom that can't be explained, it has to be lived.

Peace by religious appeasement

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