Economy: Who's to Blame?

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:33 pm

[ vent ]

Not me, that's for sure. I've never owned a credit card, I spend most everything I have in cash for items which have actual use and resale value. I live in a doublewide trailer that I bought in full and work on, I've never taken a loan, let alone never been able to pay it. I make tens of thousands of dollars a year that I re-invest in domestic property, business, and construction. I drink domestic beer. I eat Montanan black angus. I have never been in a debt of any kind in my entire life, I was raised that way. I didn't run off and take student loans so I could learn ★■◆●ing philosophy and take 30 years to pay it off.

but

Now it costs insanely more to buy milk (thank god I own my own chickens), and it's next to impossible for a lot of my friends to keep their jobs.

Thanks a lot, America, you ★■◆●ing greedy lazy slob bastards.

[ /vent ]

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:52 pm

Well,

I've done some of the things that you say you haven't, but I don't think I've done things to screw America over.

I borrowed money to go to college... and should be able to pay it off in ~5 years after I graduate.

I studied engineering. It's a service, but it directly connected to goods, as opposed to your philosophy example.

I plan to buy a house with a mortgage, but I'm also not planning on buying anything that depends on me getting a promotion or something to be able to afford my payments in 5 years... I.E. I'm only interested in fix rate mortgages that will have the exact same payment all the way until I finish paying it off.

I don't like the idea of borrowing money to buy a car... I haven't yet, and don't plan on starting.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:08 pm

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not pointing any direct fingers, I'm sure most of the people that post here are intelligent enough not to put themselves in such a situation, I just kinda wanna know who feels the same.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:10 pm

Fine, I admit it, it’s all my fault…

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:26 pm

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:45 pm

Studying engineering, had a pretty easy time finding an internship in this economy.

Oh, and I take out student loans and use credit cards.

This economic crisis was casued mainly by Barney Frank and his liberal buddies who think everyone has a right to a house, regardless of their ability to pay a mortage.

And you can thank Chris Dodd for putting the amendment in the stimulus package to allow the evil greedy AIG executives to keep their retention bonuses.

Insurrectionist · Post by **Insurrectionist** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Will Robinson wrote:

I don't think some people would honk at all.

Insurrectionist · Post by **Insurrectionist** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:23 pm

Insurrectionist wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
I don't think some people would honk at all.

Just like SilverFJ I have not taken any loans and my wife and I own our home out right so we are to blame because we didn't support the credit mentality of the world.

Shakespeare wrote:Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

Curtis & B. Elton Blackadder II wrote:Take heed the moral of this tale, Be not a borrower or lender, And if your finances do fail, Make sure your banker's not a bender.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:36 pm

Surrreee….

And I suppose, I should let my business fail instead of borrowing to get over temporary cash shortfalls, and I guess everyone should just pay cash for their houses and cars…

The point isn't not using credit at all, it’s using it prudently.

JFTR, Shakespeare was talking about borrowing from friends, which is a bad idea.

Insurrectionist · Post by **Insurrectionist** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:59 pm

Read the second quote:

Curtis & B. Elton Blackadder II wrote:Take heed the moral of this tale, Be not a borrower or lender, And if your finances do fail, Make sure your banker's not a bender.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:03 pm

Credit is important for buying houses or other expensive items...

...but 18& interest on inexpensive crap is stupid. Cash should be used for those simple purchases.

And yes, it is for sure at least a little bit the fault of people who knew they could not afford to buy a house or pay off their loans. Not everyone, but there are for sure a few.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:12 pm

Spidey wrote:... and I guess everyone should just pay cash for their houses and cars…

That's not truly such an outrageous idea. It would sure look different, but I think there would be benefits.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:29 pm

Such as?

1. having to live with your parents for the 30 years it would take to save up the money to buy said house.

2. Paying rent for the 30 years it would take to save up for said house.

3. Living in a cardboard box for the 30 years it would take to save up for said house.

Sorry couldn't resist...

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:16 pm

Spidey wrote:Such as?

1. having to live with your parents for the 30 years it would take to save up the money to buy said house.

2. Paying rent for the 30 years it would take to save up for said house.

3. Living in a cardboard box for the 30 years it would take to save up for said house.

Sorry couldn't resist...

Your sarcasm is appreciated.

Your math savvy is not.

5 years would get you a great house, with a half-way decent job. If you started saving early, say 75% at the age of 16, I would think you could be in a house, with a car, by the age of 23-25. With no debt at that point you should be absolutely set. That's not taking into account the cost of a college education, but if your parents weren't in debt either I could see that not being a problem.

I don't know if I'll barrow when I buy a house or not. My parents have a mortgage, and they've said that they consider that to be acceptable debt. But I don't buy the notion that we must depend on large loans to live our lives.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:31 am

There's a huge difference between recieving loans that you can responsibly pay back on time and radical ones which will never work. It's just my situation where I've never taken them and never had to, but loans can be a good thing, once again, if they're well planned.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:01 am

Thorne,
I fudged my numbers to be silly…whats your excuse?

Without going into the many problems I could point out with your scenario…

There are benefits and dis-advantages to both systems.

And why do people always assume the extreme, nobody ever suggested we “must” use credit. It's your choice.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:43 pm

Spidey wrote:And why do people always assume the extreme

For the greater part our society lies at an extreme, right now. Credit is a way of life, in America. You buy a house with a loan... period. I'm not going to make changing that my purpose in life, but I wonder if there's a better way than essentially being a slave to banks for a large portion of your life. I think that to a small degree people are victims to this way of life. There will always be loans, and it can be a valuable service, but I contend that financial independence is the ideal.

I wouldn't bank on it, but it seems to me that my numbers ought to be pretty close. And my excuse is that they have not really been challenged.

I say there is a presumption towards living with debt that is not so absolutely defensible. Society might look different, but I would say majority financial independence is a viable way of life in America!

One of the huge pluses is that it would make for a more stable country!

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:42 pm

And make being in business almost impossible for the small guy...

Yea, a more stable country, with a much smaller economy.

BTW, it's not so much that your numbers are off, but more on the practical application of them, and how many people that they could apply to.

Also...“financial independence” is a myth, even for the “self employed”.

flip · Post by **flip** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:46 pm

Well a large step in the right direction would be to put the power to print and disperse money back into the hands of the government and take it away from private banks and foreign investors. The borrower is servant to the lender.

Economy: Who's to Blame?

Economy: Who's to Blame?

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