Does it bother you when Americans fly a Mexican flag?

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:59 am

In addition to the American flag?

(Topic diversion from Failing Families)

Sergeant Thorne wrote:(Does it bother anyone else when Mexicans fly an American and a Mexican flag?)

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:01 am

Dakatsu wrote:I don't necessarily dislike it when they fly both together or none at all - it is kind of representing their culture, but when only flying the Mexican flag, it makes me think they don't care at all about their country, but for their own lives.

I can understand people wanting to hold on to parts of their culture. I would argue that their flag does not represent a part of their culture that they should want to hold on to, if they're American in anything but name only. I think it shows a lack of appreciation for what America is, and perhaps a degree of ignorance on top of that.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:58 am

Not as long as you put the American flag over it.

If I recall a few years ago Merlin was talking about coming to the US for a camping trip or something like that and flying a canuck flag to piss the Americans off, and it started quite the discussion.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:05 pm

Moi? if I did say that it would of been a joke only. As I would enver do that. Yes, I did visit the US for a week visiting a friend from Kali.

I have my own issues with certain cultures coming here and waving their old country flag in our face. If they love their country so much, then go back to it. But sadly they can't because they would be killed.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:09 pm

This is something that I have a hard time caring about.

If I got a job in Germany or something, I could see myself flying the American flag on the 4th of July. It wouldn't be about putting down the Germans, it would be more about just saying,

\"Hey, I'm from there, this is a day that I still care about, and that is a Country I still care about.\"

I really don't think that Hispanic-Americans who fly the Mexican flag are saying anymore then that.

I agree that it is in poor taste to fly it every day....but that is not something I see. I see it on Cinco de Mayo, or at imigration protests, and what not.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:22 pm

Gooberman, I see Italian, Lebanese, Iraq, etc flags flown everyday in windows, on cars etc.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:25 pm

As long as it's displayed in accordance to respect for the country you're in, there shouldn't be any problem. The Mexican flag should be displayed below or on a lower level than an accompanying American flag in this case.

Its really too bad that Mexico may fall apart soon though. It's getting nasty.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:05 pm

ThunderBunny wrote:As long as it's displayed in accordance to respect for the country you're in, there shouldn't be any problem. The Mexican flag should be displayed below or on a lower level than an accompanying American flag in this case.

Correct! and (x2)

if posted on a wall isn't it to the right? I forget.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:18 pm

That's the way they've got it flying (constantly) down the street: American on top and Mexican underneath.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:04 pm

Yeah I've got no problem with that. I don't blame them at all for coming across the border and trying to make a better life for themselves. Anyone here, had they been born a Mexican, would do the same thing. The problem is not the illegal immigrant but rather our Governments inability to stop it, or rather their lack of desire to. Kinda makes you wish you had payed more attention to the passing of NAFTA, than staying glued to the OJ Simpson trial all day. NAFTA in my opinion was a give and take agreement. We get free trade between the borders, their people get to come here, work, and send our money back to Mexico. I myself would rather close the borders and nationalize but that's a pipe dream. Mistreating the illegal immigrant and demonizing them is wrong, and since our Government seems not that interested in stopping it I don't know what else can be done.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:47 pm

CDN_Merlin wrote:Gooberman, I see Italian, Lebanese, Iraq, etc flags flown everyday in windows, on cars etc.

I see Italian flags all the time.

As long as the U.S. flag is highest, people can fly whatever other flags they want to, IMO.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:49 pm

There are a lot of Hispanic people around here, and they fly Cuban & Puerto Rican flags on their cars and houses 24-7 with no American flags in site, not even on memorial day or the 4th. And yea it bothers me a little, but I don’t lose any sleep over it.

When my ancestors came here, they put the flags from their home lands away, and only flew them on certain holidays, but what the hell, Hispanics are special.

If you are an American, then fly the American flag, if you don’t…then fine…I get the message.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:58 pm

Well illegal immigrants are not American citizens so they fly the flag of their own nationality. I think it says alot about the matter. That there is so much apathy from our government on the matter, that instead of trying to hide and conceal themselves, they now fly their country's flag high and without fear. If the American flag is not given the preeminence, then yes I have a problem with it. Might as well slap us in the mouth.

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:44 pm

You should be free to display any flag in any manner you want. Idiots still look like idiots when doing idiotic things.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:52 pm

The topic was not to discuss what freedoms I think people should be allowed to have, but whether it should be recognized that it is inappropriate for people to cling to their countries of origin when those countries, in some cases, are so unAmerican.

It just seems like they're clinging to some national identity that they think should mean so much to them, but what did Mexico do for them? They left to come to America, didn't they?

Just so you don't think that I go around worrying about pointless details, here's where the rubber meets the road, in my mind: people that don't appreciate what America is will be useless at best when it comes to preserving what America is supposed to be (I say \"at best,\" because at worst they'll be supporting or even spear-heading things that undermine American ideals). That bothers me like it should bother anyone that understands and appreciates what we have (left) in this country. So it's not the flag, per se, it's what it evidences about the people who are flying it--a statement of their ignorance of just how great the United States is, passing it off as something less. And it seems to me that that is a statement that can be made in a degree of ignorance (not fully understanding the significance of it).

Should I get the city to make them take it down, if that's so? No! But the statement they're making (unless I'm all wet) should be understood. Given the opportunity it could even be addressed to them.

These are things that I believe most people today tend to be ignorant of.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:04 pm

aw, but I liked being one of your ignorent people...

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:19 pm

Reading back over it I decided it was presumptuous. I still think you might be, but I'm not going to call you ignorant unless I know it. You're welcome.

Your argument seems to be that symbolism means nothing next to the thoughts or purposes of the party involved. I think that on some level thoughts and purposes do matter, but substance and symbolism still means something (which is one of the reasons I talked about \"addressing\" the matter to the party).

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:31 pm

I took out my example of ignorance because I'm not so dead-certain that I'm totally right about the substance/symbolism of the matter.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:17 pm

ccb056 wrote:You should be free to display any flag in any manner you want.

You obviously have no idea what a flag stands for other than a label.

ccb056 wrote:Idiots still look like idiots when doing idiotic things.

This is true, though.

Firewheel · Post by **Firewheel** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:38 pm

I'm a little surprised that anyone would *want* to fly the flag of a country as screwed up as Mexico is at the moment.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:08 pm

Gooberman wrote:If I got a job in Germany or something, I could see myself flying the American flag on the 4th of July. It wouldn't be about putting down the Germans, it would be more about just saying,

"Hey, I'm from there, this is a day that I still care about, and that is a Country I still care about."

Exactly!

And speaking of where the rubber hits the road. If you were contractor who ended ended up working in Iraq, would you feel that you were insulting your Iraqi neighbors if you flew a US flag? After all, you are a US Citizen. You are PROUD of your country.

And as for citizens, As Thunderbunny said, as long as they follow the rules about how flags should be displayed, I don't see any reason anyone should take offense. At my son's church sponsored youth program we fly the American flag, the Texas flag, AND the Christian flag.

Insurrectionist · Post by **Insurrectionist** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:28 am

Yes we have came a long way since 16 November 1995, when the Declaration of Principles on Tolerance was signed by The Member States of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.
Declaration of Principles on Tolerance

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:27 am

Kilarin wrote:And speaking of where the rubber hits the road. If you were contractor who ended ended up working in Iraq, would you feel that you were insulting your Iraqi neighbors if you flew a US flag? After all, you are a US Citizen. You are PROUD of your country.

Utterly beside the point. We're talking about U.S. citizens in the U.S.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:25 am

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Utterly beside the point. We're talking about U.S. citizens in the U.S.

You didn't say US Citizens:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:(Does it bother anyone else when Mexicans fly an American and a Mexican flag?)

But ok, assume they are US Citizens. Same thing, you are a US citizen who ends up working in Ireland. You fall in love with the country, and with a local girl. You end up married, and transfer your citizenship.

You love your new country, and your first allegiance must now be to your new country, not the old. But even so, does that mean you now deny your old country entirely? That you are no longer proud of having been born in the US? Flying both flags, following the local rules, gives you a way to say, "That was my old country, I love it, and am proud of it, But this is my new country, and I love and serve it now."

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:53 am

Are you guilty of skimming? The whole topic I've been dealing with U.S. citizens flying the flag of other countries. It's just that it was assumed in the title.

Kilarin wrote:But ok, assume they are US Citizens. Same thing, you are a US citizen who ends up working in Ireland. You fall in love with the country, and with a local girl. You end up married, and transfer your citizenship.

You love your new country, and your first allegiance must now be to your new country, not the old. But even so, does that mean you now deny your old country entirely? That you are no longer proud of having been born in the US? Flying both flags, following the local rules, gives you a way to say, "That was my old country, I love it, and am proud of it, But this is my new country, and I love and serve it now."

This still doesn't deal with my point. All it does is try to point out the possibly harmless (naive) motives. I understood it when Gooberman said it, and I answered it (indirectly).

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:31 pm

The way I see it a flag is a symbol of ownership, of conquoring, of local dominion. When you fly a flag it should represent what it took to attain the dirt that it was planted in. If you fly a foreign flag other than a passive cultural reference (i.e. an Italian flag outside of an Italian resturant, a Mexican flag *under* an American flag if your family history is Mexican) it's kind of a slap in the face to the soldier or pioneer that gave that patch of land to us via his or her struggles.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:51 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Are you guilty of skimming? The whole topic I've been dealing with U.S. citizens flying the flag of other countries. It's just that it was assumed in the title.

Well, certainly guilty of not paying enough attention to the topic title. Point conceded.

Sergeant Thorne wrote: All it does is try to point out the possibly harmless (naive) motives. I understood it when Gooberman said it, and I answered it (indirectly).

Then we may be in agreement. I simply assume that as long as they are flying the flags properly, they are placing their first allegiance to their new country, as they should. I see no reason to assume otherwise unless they demonstrate in some very obvious way that this is false.

There are certainly a lot of people, from MANY countries, who came over here just for improved economic circumstances and who never really gave their allegiance to the US. In this case, I completely agree with you. It basically means that when they took oath as a citizen, they were lying. I would feel the same way about an American who moved their citizenship to Canada but never really gave them their allegiance.

But I wouldn't assume that this is someones attitude because they flew another nations flag below the US flag.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:47 pm

who cares.

actually worrying about whether or not someone is waving a flag that's different than the country you life on just goes to show how weak your confidence is.

\"waaaah, he's flying two different flags and he lives in the states!\"

get over yourselves. sheesh.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:30 pm

The American flag:
I symbol of struggle, blood, purity and personal nobility, honor, of freedom from oppression.

The Canadian flag:
Well...um...we didnt really have anything else to put on it...?

I guess they were just gunna have a white flag, it got mixed with the reds in the laundry, and a maple leaf fell on it

A symbol of delicious breakfast condiment. Thanks, Canada.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:24 am

Ferno wrote:who cares.

actually worrying about whether or not someone is waving a flag that's different than the country you life on just goes to show how weak your confidence is.

"waaaah, he's flying two different flags and he lives in the states!"

get over yourselves. sheesh.

All you had to do was get it.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:13 am

hilarious!!

BTW ferno I was just teasin'.

Does it bother you when Americans fly a Mexican flag?

Does it bother you when Americans fly a Mexican flag?

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