Obama the community agitator in chief

[Spidey]

They're supposed to be professionals and defuse the situation, not inflame it.

That applies to the president as well.

[Tunnelcat]

Yep. Never kick a hot flaming bag of poop, especially when you're President. You'll get stink all over yourself and set things on fire. When he answered the question with a clearly biased reply, I knew the merde was going to hit the ventilateur.

Snoopy, you've made some very good points. We all form impressions on one another by our direct dealings with others and also unfortunately, by the way people are portrayed in the media. Not all black people dressed like ganstas are bad guys, just as not all preppie looking white males are angels. There have been several recent high profile mass murders that were committed by well dressed guys that were well liked by others. You can't judge a book by it's cover.

As for the cop, he's supposed to be trained to deal with emotional people and NOT react inappropriately to verbal insults, but remain professional and courteous, no matter how insulting a person is being towards him. He's supposed to diffuse a situation, not inflame it, as hard as that can be sometimes.

[dissent]

and it was on CNN no less.

per Allahpundit's commentary, the money quote is

In fact, I’m thinking that beer date at the White House to discuss “tolerance” might not be such a bad idea if Crowley gets to bring Kelly King along. Skip Gates and The One might just learn something.

If you’re looking for postracial America, you’ve found it.

[Bet51987]

Well, if I'm dealing with someone who is polite, cooperative, and understanding I'll investigate until I'm satisfied (subjectively, that probably would be beyond simply getting ID... I'd need at least a good, believable story as to why the guy had to break into his own house.) that nothing is amiss and the guy just locked himself out. The more the story doesn't make sense, the person gets agitated, or is uncooperative, the more I'm going to dig. As a cop, if you want me to leave you alone, don't give me any reason to be suspicious. I don't blame the guy.

Exactly right. Awesome post.

As for the cop, he's supposed to be trained to deal with emotional people and NOT react inappropriately to verbal insults, but remain professional and courteous, no matter how insulting a person is being towards him. He's supposed to diffuse a situation, not inflame it, as hard as that can be sometimes.

I disagree. I think a police officer should get the same respect as a judge in a court of law. When officer Crowley wanted to see some ID, the professor gave him a Harvard ID which has nothing to prove he lived there. When the officer...trying to make sure a felony wasn't being committed... asked for more ID professor Gates should have supplied it instead of mouthing off big time. It was HE who inflamed the situation prompting the deserved arrest.

Another thing. One of the officers with Crowley was black and he completely supported the arrest.

Bee

[Spidey]

tc…sometimes the only way to “diffuse” a situation is to make the arrest, and avoid the possibility of further escalation, resulting in something really bad. (like violence)

You know…sometimes all the diplomatic skills in the world fail to work on a belligerent person.

[Will Robinson]

...
Will, you're either lying or denying it if you think you don't react differently to Black/Hispanic/Arabic men on the street than White men, even in your own neighborhood. Anybody that denies this is lying to themselves and to others. Xenophobia is a low-level basal emotional reaction humans have to those who appear different from themselves and it's hard-wired into all of us, whether we like it or not....

I have better control of my base instincts than you want to give me credit for, I may subconsciously be more alert at the initial sight of a person that looks different from me, I understand that part of our nature, but beyond that initial recognition I am in control of what I think of people. You have implied that I would be somehow inherently prejudiced against a dark skinned person and that is just not true.
I'm not the product of a subculture that has been taught to carry a grudge against people of another race....unlike our President.... so you need to project that diagnosis on him not me.

The line I use on my kids the most is "There are plenty of bad people in the world don't get stupid by thinking you can spot them by the color of their wrapper. Find the good and/or bad in the individual and then make your decisions."

[woodchip]

I suspect Gates was outside of his house when he was being mouthy and thus was creating a \"Public\" disturbance, therefor Crowley was justified in arresting Gates for being disorderly.

[Tunnelcat]

I have better control of my base instincts than you want to give me credit for, I may subconsciously be more alert at the initial sight of a person that looks different from me, I understand that part of our nature, but beyond that initial recognition I am in control of what I think of people. You have implied that I would be somehow inherently prejudiced against a dark skinned person and that is just not true.
I'm not the product of a subculture that has been taught to carry a grudge against people of another race....unlike our President.... so you need to project that diagnosis on him not me.

The line I use on my kids the most is "There are plenty of bad people in the world don't get stupid by thinking you can spot them by the color of their wrapper. Find the good and/or bad in the individual and then make your decisions."

That's a very intelligent way to have dealings with people that are different or unfamiliar to you, I applaud you for teaching it to your children. All I'm saying is that most people have a distinct emotional gut reaction when encountering others that are different from them, be it right or wrong. What's important is how you ACT with that reaction. Apparently, Gates had a emotional gut reaction and didn't temper it with a little intelligence and reasoning. Some people are just wired that way, unfortunately, and situations like this continue to happen.

I disagree. I think a police officer should get the same respect as a judge in a court of law. When officer Crowley wanted to see some ID, the professor gave him a Harvard ID which has nothing to prove he lived there. When the officer...trying to make sure a felony wasn't being committed... asked for more ID professor Gates should have supplied it instead of mouthing off big time. It was HE who inflamed the situation prompting the deserved arrest.

Another thing. One of the officers with Crowley was black and he completely supported the arrest.

Bee

Have you ever watched the 'COPS' show? I've seen some pretty vulgar reactions that cops have to put up with when dealing with the public, and most don't resort to arrest unless things actually get physical. Maybe Crowley should have asked the black officer to deal directly with Gates if he saw that the race card was being thrown around and things were starting to blow up. A lot of cops go for the power play. It's just human nature when someone's in a position of authority. Composure and self control in all situations are hard but necessary requirements for the job of police officer. Unfortunately, the Boston police have a checkered past with overextending their authority.

We had a cop here in Corvallis who took 'pretexting' with college students and DUI's a little to far. He was so determined to get as many drunk students off the street as possible, he went beyond the call of duty one to many times. He arrested a college student on the charge of DUI, all because the guy had red bloodshot eyes and slurred speach. Even though the guy PASSED a blood alcohol test and had no drugs in his system, the damage was done. Here in Oregon, all you have to do is just get ARRESTED, NOT CHARGED, for suspicion of DUI and it's permanently part of your record, you can't get it expunged. This particular cop had gotten at least 2 others in this situation, all based on his aggressive pretexting of students. Not that student drinking isn't a big problem here, this cop took his job definition too far. Fortunately, our legislature is trying to change the law so that if you are CLEARED of drunk driving AFTER the arrest, the record can be cleared.

http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/20 ... 02_cox.txt

Woodchip, I heard that Gates became belligerent when he was still inside his house.

[Spidey]

I don’t understand your point tc, are you saying the cop has a habit of victimizing black men who have to break into their own houses?

[Foil]

I've been watching this thread with a little interest. I thought it might devolve into political rhetoric and predictable knee-jerk racial/reverse-racial/race-baiting accusations, but there's some good discussion.

...I may subconsciously be more alert at the initial sight of a person that looks different from me, I understand that part of our nature, but beyond that initial recognition I am in control of what I think of people.
...
I'm not the product of a subculture that has been taught to carry a grudge against people of another race....unlike our President.... so you need to project that diagnosis on him not me.

Agreed! Despite our subconscious stereotypes about people (we all have them), we ultimately still have the choice to look beyond the surface.

----------------------

Will, I'm still wondering a bit about your earlier post, where you talked about reacting based upon notions about what people might be:

But I honestly do think, 'Is this guy going to be one of those militant, chip on his shoulder/race baiting black people?'

How do you reconcile that with the later statement about choosing not to base your opinion on early reactions?

[Bet51987]

Have you ever watched the 'COPS' show?

Yes I have and at least once a week, I read about a drunk driver going the wrong way on a road, hitting a van, and killing a family. Sometimes more than once a week.

It didn't say in your linked article how many of the officer's arrests were real DUI's. He certainly received a lot of praise until that one incident which is not the officer's fault but a fault in the law itself.

Anyway, I don't agree that a police officer should put up with any verbal abuse directed at him. If you mouth off at him/her once he tells you to keep quiet you deserve to get arrested.

Bee

[Sergeant Thorne]

In a perfect world anyone who gives a police officer anything but respect for his position and his duty would be put in the stocks.

And any police officer abusing his position would be put under citizens' arrest.

[Spidey]

In a perfect world, you wouldn’t need cops.



Or stocks...

[Sergeant Thorne]

Damn it all, Spidey!

[Will Robinson]

...
Will, I'm still wondering a bit about your earlier post, where you talked about reacting based upon notions about what people might be:

But I honestly do think, 'Is this guy going to be one of those militant, chip on his shoulder/race baiting black people?'

How do you reconcile that with the later statement about choosing not to base your opinion on early reactions?

Just as it is natural to be aware of the outward differences between myself and another race it is also natural to calculate if one member will exhibit a behavior I have witnessed in the majority of people from that race that I've interacted with or observed recently.
It was a question of am I inherently biased against that race so I prejudge him to be a problem right away and act based on that... or do I remind myself to suspend my initial prejudgments, which include my observations that there is a black cultural phenomena of 'whitey better back off and put up with me' attitude and wait and see before I decide on what I think of the individual. So I don't see any inconsistency in my two statements. The inherent bias to favor ones own race AND my consciously developed biases against certain behavior and an expectation to find that behavior coming from a specific group are all within the category of thoughts that I'm in control of when forming my opinion about an individual or reacting to him.

I didn't mean to imply that I'm without biases, just that I'm conscious of them and try to consider their value before allowing them to factor into my decisions.

[woodchip]

So as predicted, the beer fest was just a photo op. No one allowed close enough to hear the details. Crowley's interview summed up every thing, mainly nothing was accomplished. Glad to see Crowley did not back down.

[dissent]

speaking of reactions based on race ...

There's this item from Cinque Henderson,a black commentator, at TNR from back in May 2008,
the black case for Obama-skepticism

...But, before going any further, let me fully disclose my predispositions. I disliked Obama almost instantly. I never believed the central premises of his autobiography or his campaign. He is fueled by precisely the same brand of personal ambition as Bill Clinton. But, where Clinton is damned as "Slick Willie," Obama is hailed as a post-racial Messiah. ...

...But, once you stare past the radiant glow surrounding Obama and begin to study the exact reasons for his so-called racial transcendence, you can't help but conclude that it is mostly hokum. Why do black people love Obama? In large part, it's because of the dark-skinned woman on his arm. Black people (especially black women) are nuts for Michelle....

...But, while he remained silent about the allegations of racism, he gave speeches across South Carolina that warned against being "hoodwinked" and "bamboozled" by the Clintons. His use of the phrase is resonant. It comes from a scene in Malcolm X, where Denzel Washington warns black people about the hidden evils of "the White Man" masquerading as a smiling politician: "Every election year, these politicians are sent up here to pacify us," he says. "You've been hoodwinked. Bamboozled."

By uttering this famous phrase, Obama told his black audience everything it needed to know. He was helping to convince blacks that the first two-term Democratic president in 50 years, a man referred to as the first black president, is in fact a secret racist. As soon as I heard that Obama had quoted from Malcolm X like this, I knew that Obama would win South Carolina by a massive margin. ...

...Barack obscured the true nature of black religious life because, to do otherwise, he would have had to answer the question, "Why are you a member of a church that is this racially divisive and such a sharp aberration to how the rest of black people worship?"...
...But Barack needed to protect his reputation as a race-healer and unifier, so he told a lie about black religious life to help keep the glow of his own reputation alive. ...

As usual, best to read the whole thing.

(article via this story over at Hot Air)

[Tunnelcat]

I don’t understand your point tc, are you saying the cop has a habit of victimizing black men who have to break into their own houses?

No, white cops probably just automatically THINK SUBCONSCIOUSLY something nefarious is going on when they see black men that APPEAR to be breaking into a house, whether it's their own or not.

It didn't say in your linked article how many of the officer's arrests were real DUI's. He certainly received a lot of praise until that one incident which is not the officer's fault but a fault in the law itself.

Anyway, I don't agree that a police officer should put up with any verbal abuse directed at him. If you mouth off at him/her once he tells you to keep quiet you deserve to get arrested. Bee

It turns out that there were 3 KNOWN and CONTESTESTED cases of false arrest by officer Cox for DUI and ALL of these people are STILL trying to clear their records of a crime they didn't commit. A DUI on your record is a VERY black mark to have and deal with. I'll agree that getting drunk people off the road is a very high priority, especially in a college town, but ruthless pretexting to make quotas is just downright abuse of power.

Here's another example of cops gone bad in Florida and it involves a PROBABLE DUI.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/conte ... oodpd.html

The video is interesting because the woman in back seat couldn't hear what the officer's were plotting.



Not only did these officers frame the woman for the accident, someone in the department edited the original video to cut out all of their conversations so that there would be no evidence of their plotting, but as you can hear, the full recording was fortunately still intact. What's bad is since this video evidence was tampered with by these guys, this woman had ALL the DUI charges against her dropped, because the over 2.0 breath test they administered would have to be considered suspect as well. She admitted to drinking before the incident, but I watched the tape of the field sobriety test on TV and she clearly wasn't as drunk as an over 2.0 reading would indicate. But we'll never know for sure because of crooked cops trying to cover up THEIR driving mistake. Just stupid.

My point in all this is that not all cops are good and respectful to those they're supposed to protect, just as not all citizens are examples of politeness in return. I don't automatically give the police a pass on their authority. There are always those who abuse it, they're only human. If a cop treats me with respect, I WILL respect him or her and the job they do without question. But if I detect a little authoritarian attitude towards me, I'm going to be leery of their actions from then on.

[Stroodles]

Have you ever watched the 'COPS' show?

Yes I have and at least once a week, I read about a drunk driver going the wrong way on a road, hitting a van, and killing a family. Sometimes more than once a week.

It didn't say in your linked article how many of the officer's arrests were real DUI's. He certainly received a lot of praise until that one incident which is not the officer's fault but a fault in the law itself.

Anyway, I don't agree that a police officer should put up with any verbal abuse directed at him. If you mouth off at him/her once he tells you to keep quiet you deserve to get arrested.

Bee

I couldn't agree more. You respect the police, they are the reason you can feel safe in your home. If you think you're being treated unfairly, then, deal.

It's canceled out by years that you haven't been robbed/killed/assaulted etc.-because of the cops.

The people who mouth off to cops need to learn some basic respect.

[flip]

Police do not prevent crimes, their job is to solve them. If anyone would argue the point, give me 5 examples from the last 5 years where they actually prevented a crime from happening. It was never supposed to be this easy to arrest people, and as far as I'm concerned, I can say what the hell I want in whatever way I want. Especially in my own house. If a police officer is so sensitive to the point he arrests you to \"teach you a lesson\" because you hurt his feelings, he is not mentally capable to be in authority. At best he should have gave Gates a summons to let a higher authority judge between the two. He was in no way violent and an arrest was totally unwarranted. Instead what he did was exercise his own brand of punishment on him. In his own house no less.

@Cuda. I have every right to feel my house is off limits to anything this side of due process and protocol. If you find I'm doing something illegal at my house you got to have a warrant to get in. It's check and balances for law enforcement, and also the reason I have a fence and gate around my whole property. Don't get me wrong we need police, but I see so many abuses on that cops show it makes me sick. How the hell do I get out of this herd???

[Duper]

Police do not prevent crimes, their job is to solve them. If anyone would argue the point, give me 5 examples from the last 5 years where they actually prevented a crime from happening.

I'll give you one.

Fire them all and see what happens inside a week.

[flip]

Does that mean you cant?

[snoopy]

Police do not prevent crimes, their job is to solve them. If anyone would argue the point, give me 5 examples from the last 5 years where they actually prevented a crime from happening.

That's a silly request. Police don't prevent crime by physically intervening... as if they were psychic to know when to be where. They prevent crime by representing very real consequences to would-be criminals.

Prime example: New York City. When Giuliani cleaned up the force, and went after organized crime, it suddenly became a lot more likely that the police would do their job (enforce the law) to the average criminal, and crime went way down as a result.

Cmon man. Really?

[CUDA]

there are about a million examples of police crime prevention in the US prison system right now. there are MANY serial criminal incarcerated as we speak, each one is the police preventing crime

[Will Robinson]

...

No, white cops probably just automatically THINK SUBCONSCIOUSLY something nefarious is going on when they see black men that APPEAR to be breaking into a house, whether it's their own or not....

I would hope that EVERYONE would think something was wrong when they see ANYONE of any color breaking into a house....including policemen.

Your argument depends on the flawed assumption that a policeman wouldn't have the same suspicions of white people if they appeared to be breaking into a house. It's as if you're willing to suspend common sense so you can try to prop up your own biases.
Most of the people in the country are white, most of the criminals in the country are white, police deal with the criminal element daily. Do you really think they ignore reality so they can focus their attention on sustaining this inherent bigotry you have painted them with?!?

[Duper]

Does that mean you cant?

it means I think you lack common sense and want to debate needlessly.

[flip]

Really? I was thinking the same thing about you after your post totally missed the point. No one said the police were not a deterrent to those maybe thinking about a crime, but CRIMINALS do not think that way obviously. So there is no way anyone could prevent the crime from happening and it's surprising to me that you have that much confidence in that kind of \"protection\". If I'm correct, snoopy is a police officer and agreed. In fact, his own post was that when they finally cleaned up all the \"corruption in the police force of New York\", and actually went after the biggest criminal element in New York, instead of getting in bed with them, that crime went down. DUH.
/methinks your just trying to fit in.