if your code pink or Cindy Shehan, its ok,

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:29 am

so if your Code pink or Cindy Shehan its called free speach guranteed by the Constitution.
But if your against the President's policies your a Nazi

go figure

I'm thinking the Dems dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Replacing a town hall meeting for a conference call in his district, Rep. Brian Baird, D-Wash., on Thursday compared his constituents' behavior to Nazi-era adherents.

\"What we're seeing right now is close to Brown Shirt tactics,\" Baird told a local newspaper. \"I mean that very seriously.\"

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08 ... ers-nazis/

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:44 am

What pisses me off is the media doesn't call bullfeces on the whole process! At the same time the democrats are alleging the protests are nothing but organized rightwingers the Whitehouse is putting out the call for organized leftwingers to attend the meetings!
Both parties are trying to stack the deck to make the congressmen return from the break to vote accordingly based on the staged attendance at the meetings.

The net results of that practice is no different than stuffing a ballot box with forged ballots to win an election.
I imagine next we'll find out ACORN bussed in a bunch of homeless bums, bribing them with cigarettes like they did to swell the voter registrations to show up and shout down the protesters...

We have been sold out by the so called free press in this country more so than by our representatives.

The big story should be how the fight to vote for, or vote against, the mythical health care bill has already begun BEFORE ANYONE KNOWS WHAT IS IN IT OR HAS EVEN WRITTEN THE BILL THAT WILL BECOME LAW!!
Once either side has scared up enough momentum in the polls the party will be able to coerce it's members into voting for the unwritten bill based on the threat of losing their jobs come next election cycle thanks to the need for party support to win any election.
Once the premature victory is decided then the winning party can write into the bill anything they want.
We no longer have a representative republic of thinking men trying to advance ideas and answering to a citizens vote. We have two public relations companies selling the willfully ignorant voters on slogans and platitudes and once the market research shows the public buys into a products slogan the congress is bribed into passing into law whatever product the company wants to stick the accepted label on.

We are in effect being bullied into accepting a major change to our economy and heath care system before anyone has determined the details of the changes. And on top of that the Whitehouse and the democrats are becoming a fascist organization unto itself declaring any dissent to be fraudulent. The only difference between Nancy Pelosi and Hugo Chavez is that Nancy has bigger balls.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:03 am

I also find it funny how they are screaming about the Obama Joker pick. yet last year while Bush was in office this was posted in vanity fair

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:38 am

sorry will I posted before refreshing, I agree 100% voting on ANY resolution before reading it should be ground for mandatory impeachment. I dont care what party you belong to.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:41 am

You mean that the republicans didn't have an idea of their own so they STOLE the joker idea from the democrats?

God, now that irks me.

Bee

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:39 am

Bet51987 wrote:You mean that the republicans didn't have an idea of their own so they STOLE the joker idea from the democrats?

God, now that irks me.

Bee

SURE even a Democrat will come up with something good every once in a while.

I mean they cant be wrong ALL THE TIME can they?????

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:12 pm

I wonder if Merriam Webster will redefine the word \"transparent\" into the new Obama definition.

Oh and Bee, the Obama Joker is way more sinister looking than the Bush one

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:28 pm

Union Thugs Deliver Unprovoked Beating on Black Conservative at Carnahan Town Hall

6 arrests were made.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:37 pm

AlphaDoG wrote:Union Thugs Deliver Unprovoked Beating on Black Conservative at Carnahan Town Hall

6 arrests were made.

Well the President did ask for his team to "punch back twice as hard"...

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:46 pm

And what was Pelosi saying about Nazis's and Brown Shirts?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:05 pm

I am really loving this…watching and listening to the left squirm and whine about tactics they have been using for decades.

The guy on the News Hour tonight said “these protests are preventing the debate process”…Well Ha Ha Ha, that is just what happens when someone has an opinion, and gets called a racist…so too damn bad.

What goes around…comes around.

And what was even funnier was the segment about the DNC’s “Organizing for America” complaining about who is organizing these protests.

Stroodles · Post by **Stroodles** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:11 pm

Funny how TC, Bee, etc. make no posts regarding protesters being labeled 'nazis' on any of the threads. Or maybe they still need a reason why that's a good thing?

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:12 pm

Stroodles wrote:Funny how TC, Bee, etc. make no posts regarding protesters being labeled 'nazis' on any of the threads. Or maybe they still need a reason why that's a good thing?

It's not, but...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/denise-de ... 49897.html

Bee

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:34 pm

oK we all know that is to be expected by the staff at the Huffington Post, however, if you watch the video, you will see that it is angry old folks and not some right wing cabal that was shouting down the turncoat Specter.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:12 pm

Since “Health Care Reform” has never been about “Affordable Health Care” and never will be, then the next best thing is…shout it down and get rid of it.

Too bad the system has to work that way, but the powers that be, never really wanted your opinions in the first place.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:28 pm

Pretty sad when faced with opposition to their unwanted scheme, certain leftist politicians wind up calling them extremist radicals/nazis/brown shirts. Yet the extremist terrorist who attacked our country have to be named in a pc nomenclature

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:02 pm

If these are mostly angry old folks who are probably already ON Medicare, why are they b*tching about government-run health care when they're USING IT right now!

Also, a lot of these so-called \"protesters\" are being sponsored by or are being paid by the health care industry, insurance, pharma, etc. Not in the best interests for the patients who are wallowing in medical debt in this country.

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:22 pm

Well obviously because they already know what a bad deal it will be. Because they've been there.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:49 pm

tunnelcat wrote:...Also, a lot of these so-called "protesters" are being sponsored by or are being paid by the health care industry, insurance, pharma, etc. Not in the best interests for the patients who are wallowing in medical debt in this country.

You know they are sponsored/paid or just want to believe they are?

Insurrectionist · Post by **Insurrectionist** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:20 am

You can always tell who watches the main stream news and drinks the koolaid.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:31 am

tunnelcat wrote:....Not in the best interests for the patients who are wallowing in medical debt in this country.

I think that's the crux of the matter. These are really the only people that will benefit from this, at the cost of inferior care for everyone.

How do I justify "inferior care?"
1. Look at all of the other social health care systems out there. They are all miles behind the US health care system in terms of patient care.
2. Obama himself has said it- "greater efficiency" by eliminating unnecessary & duplicate tests means more red tape & paperwork on the hospital before they can perform needed tests.

In my line of work, dealing with manufacturers making things for me, I've learned the following addage:

You can have two of the following, but never all three: Speed, Quality, Low cost.

Right now we have fast and high quality health care, but at high cost. (High cost to the recipient of the care moreso than the public in general.)

Obama is tying to tell us that we can have all three, in the same breath tells us plans to bring down cost that will hurt quality and speed, and then finishes by saying that quality will actually improve. I'm not buying it. I think insurance companies are self-correcting by means of their high-deductible health savings account programs, and this is all a ploy to increase government.

[/derail]

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:22 am

heh.

we're the government, and we're not gonna take it anymore

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:59 am

How times have changed. Remember back to the thrilling days of yesteryear, when G.W. Bush was in office. Rising above the din of political dissent comes Hillary's nails on chalk board voice saying:

\"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration.\"

To bad the Dems. don't replay Hillary's quote before they open their mouths and call dissenters today un-American.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:50 am

I've always found than when someone is losing an argument they tent to lose their cool and start calling people names.

/me points to Nancy Pelosi and some other Democrat leaders. recently calling people that are is disagreement with the way they are governing and regarding the health-care bill NAZI's

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:30 am

CUDA wrote:I've always found than when someone is losing an argument they tent to lose their cool and start calling people names.

/me points to Nancy Pelosi and some other Democrat leaders. recently calling people that are is disagreement with the way they are governing and regarding the health-care bill NAZI's

/me points to Sarah Palin when she was inciting the masses by calling Obama a terrorist among other things, which prompted John McCain to step in an stop it.

That kind of incitement (Death panel) is still being delivered today. Big health insurance companies putting the pressure on republicans to stop any reform.

Bee

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:49 am

Bet51987 wrote:
CUDA wrote:I've always found than when someone is losing an argument they tent to lose their cool and start calling people names.

/me points to Nancy Pelosi and some other Democrat leaders. recently calling people that are is disagreement with the way they are governing and regarding the health-care bill NAZI's
/me points to Sarah Palin when she was inciting the masses by calling Obama a terrorist among other things, which prompted John McCain to step in an stop it.

So why is Obama not telling Pelosi to button up?

Bet51987 wrote:That kind of incitement (Death panel) is still being delivered today. Big health insurance companies putting the pressure on republicans to stop any reform.Bee

So when Acorn and the thug unions got people together
to terrorise bank officials families, that was O.K.?
It was O.K. for SEIU thugs to knock down a black conservative handing out flags at a townhall meeting and throwing racial slurs at him?
You do remember Barack "Mengeles" Obama said it was better to give pain pills to the elderly instead of a expensive operation? Why shouldn't Palin refer to the proposed "End of Life Counselers" as a death panel?
I suspect Bee, you will conveniently overlook these items.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:52 am

woodchip wrote: You do remember Barack "Mengeles" Obama said it was better to give pain pills to the elderly instead of a expensive operation?

Direct quote and link please?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:00 am

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:17 am

He was clearly referring to, and explicitly stated, that he was referring to \"...some of the waste thats not making anybody's mom better, that is loading up on additional tests that the evidence shows is not going to improve care...\"

...and here is another part of the conversation that was snipped from your intentionally misleading video.

\"20-30 times being in the hospital, the cost was so much more had she not had the pace maker.\"

\"thats a good example where if we have experts advising doctors that the pace maker may ultimately save money then we could have potentially done that faster.\"

Have you been to a dentist recently woodchip? Everyone now needs a \"deep cleaning,\" everyone now needs a \"mouth guard,\" people who have no business needing braces are told they now need braces. Why? Because the industry is too expensive for the Doctors, and they need to make work for themselves. This is true across the board.

This is the waste he was referring to.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:32 am

Ok, I found the full quote of that passage.

...don't want bureaucracies making those decisions, but understand that those decisions are already being made in one way or another. If they're not being made under Medicare and Medicaid, they're being made by private insurers. We don't always make those decisions explicitly. We often make those decisions by just letting people run out of money or making the deductibles so high or the out-of-pocket expenses so onerous that they just can't afford the care

But what we can do is make sure that at least some of the waste that exists in the system that's not making anybody's mom better, that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care, that at least we can let doctors know and your mom know that, you know what? Maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller. (THIS IS WHERE YOUR VIDEO STOPS!!!!!)And those kinds of decisions between doctors and patients, and making sure that our incentives are not preventing those good decisions, and that — that doctors and hospitals all are aligned for patient care, that's something we can achieve.

That editing job is just flat out dishonest!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... require-c/

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:25 pm

\"and making sure that our incentives are not preventing those good decisions\"

Tell me Goob, will the above qualifier be part of the bill? If so what is the language supporting it? If no language is included are we to assume on down the road that what Obama intimates will not spiral down to a cost issue? What guarantee's to the contrary? The same guarantee that unless the stim bill was passed, unemployment will go past the 8% level?
I want to see the verbiage supporting Obama's statement in the health bill and not rely on some wishful politicians statement. Until then, I think his pills to manage ones deaththroes is more apt to be true.

BTW, Goob, nice job on digging into the vid.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:30 pm

Bet51987 wrote:
CUDA wrote:I've always found than when someone is losing an argument they tent to lose their cool and start calling people names.

/me points to Nancy Pelosi and some other Democrat leaders. recently calling people that are is disagreement with the way they are governing and regarding the health-care bill NAZI's
/me points to Sarah Palin when she was inciting the masses by calling Obama a terrorist among other things, which prompted John McCain to step in an stop it.

That kind of incitement (Death panel) is still being delivered today. Big health insurance companies putting the pressure on republicans to stop any reform.

Bee

RIDDLE ME THIS BATGIRL
does that then make what Pelosi is doing right????

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:53 pm

CUDA wrote:I've always found than when someone is losing an argument they tent to lose their cool and start calling people names.

CUDA wrote:RIDDLE ME THIS BATGIRL

I'm just pointing out the flaws.

Bee

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:22 pm

Tell me Goob, will the above qualifier be part of the bill? If so what is the language supporting it? If no language is included are we to assume on down the road that what Obama intimates will not spiral down to a cost issue? What guarantee's to the contrary? The same guarantee that unless the stim bill was passed, unemployment will go past the 8% level?
I want to see the verbiage supporting Obama's statement in the health bill and not rely on some wishful politicians statement. Until then, I think his pills to manage ones deaththroes is more apt to be true.

I don't know, I've been incredible busy of late that I haven't had the time to jump into this issue. But my current understanding is that the reason the Dems are getting absolutely slaughtered out there is because the Bill isn't done. They are in the position of having to defend something that doesn't exist, or is at least premature. Thats an impossible position to be in.

I too am interested to see what is finalized, but the notion that Obama wants old people to just die off to save money, ranks up there with those on the left that were convinced that Bush just wanted to kill brown people. At some point you have to be able to disagree while believing the other side has good intentions.

Again tho, I'm in no position to defend the dems right now, nor am I convinced that I would. That quote just struck me as dishonest.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:36 pm

Bet51987 wrote:
CUDA wrote:I've always found than when someone is losing an argument they tent to lose their cool and start calling people names.

CUDA wrote:RIDDLE ME THIS BATGIRL
I'm just pointing out the flaws.

Bee

and exactly where was the flaw in my comment?????

Insurrectionist · Post by **Insurrectionist** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:29 pm

In 2003, Hillary Clinton screeched \"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration.\"

I don't know how this went to Health care debate when it was about speaking out then be called Nazi and unpatriotic.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:08 pm

Gooberman wrote:...But my current understanding is that the reason the Dems are getting absolutely slaughtered out there is because the Bill isn't done. They are in the position of having to defend something that doesn't exist, or is at least premature. Thats an impossible position to be in...

Yet they are in that position by choice!
I have to believe it is because gaining power for their party and expanding government control over the private sector is so seductive to them that they tried to jump on Obama's momentum/bandwagon thinking he was going to be able to get the public to rubber stamp his agenda...his promises etc. without anyone having to actually construct the legislation first.
now that the public is screaming that the emperor has no clothes they are actually trying to claim we have no legitimate voice to object with!!

There is really no difference between them and Hugo Chavez except they have to deal with the remnants of the Constitution they haven't figured out how to dispose of...yet. I guess Obama needs to appoint a Czar of free speech to control the debate and that will just about wrap it all up tight enough to shove right down our collective throat!

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:44 am

Bee, I'm still waiting for you to show me the Flaw in my comment.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:22 pm

woodchip wrote:How times have changed. Remember back to the thrilling days of yesteryear, when G.W. Bush was in office. Rising above the din of political dissent comes Hillary's nails on chalk board voice saying:

"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration."

To bad the Dems. don't replay Hillary's quote before they open their mouths and call dissenters today un-American.

i mean what is the point of pointing out the other side's hypocrisy?

you realize you're then just in a perpetual finger pointing game, with dems pointing at you and you pointing at dems with zero total progress?

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:12 am

Birdseye wrote: i mean what is the point of pointing out the other side's hypocrisy?

you realize you're then just in a perpetual finger pointing game, with dems pointing at you and you pointing at dems with zero total progress?

You have to be amazed at our founding fathers. They designed our government just so there would be zero total progress. They did this so government would NOT grow too big. The bi-partisanship is a relatively new thing that started in the 20th century.

if your code pink or Cindy Shehan, its ok,

if your code pink or Cindy Shehan, its ok,

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