How the US is seen?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:29 pm

What I have gathered from this thread and my own opinions so far:

How the US is seen by the rest of the world: badly by those who choose to speak out about it and are given the chance to do so. Undecided or favorable by many of those who choose or are forced (by lack of media coverage) to remain silent.

We should pay little attention to the global view as it is presented to us because nothing we say or do short of ceasing to exist entirely will change these views. I believe that the global media and many global leaders purposely suppress things that may present the US in a favorable light and exaggerate things that will present the US in a negative way. Why do I think this? Because it is easier for them to point out our problems then it is to resolve their own. And it makes it easier for them to conceal their problems because it directs attention towards everyoneâ??s favorite scapegoat. The world only does what the media tells them to do and the media tells them to hate America.

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:34 pm

how do you guys feel about CNN and the other major news channels being exported to the rest of the world? do you watch it and think "hey this reflects well of what we are like in the usa". or do you sometimes cringe.

we get CNN etc here on cable tv (it should also be said that not many ppl have cable tv here, it could be coz it's almost entirely american programming

).

when i watch internationally popular australian movies i often cringe to think of what possible generalisations it may be encouraging other nations to have towards australians.

i'd be proud however to have our SBS world news exported to the rest of the world.

krom wrote:How the US is seen by the rest of the world: badly by those who choose to speak out about it and are given the chance to do so. Undecided or favorable by many of those who choose or are forced (by lack of media coverage) to remain silent.

we see CNN etc as very pro-america, and we know that it's exported to the rest of the world.
so we don't feel bad about balancing it up with our local opinions.

to tell the truth, (in many more ways than one) i think it would be better for all involved if american media stopped exporting all of it's stuff to the world, we feel kindof saturated by it (it's the smell, is there such a thing). so we find it quite refreshing to have an honest local opinion on our local news.

hmm, it may be that the rest of the world feels quite free in holding no stops in critisism for the usa because we see it's (more and more unwanted) influence in so many things that we see locally. "the news" is a big thing here, we have a growing feeling (as many nations do) that the USA is purposely trying to assimilate our country by bombarding us with america's culture.
so we resist.
a form of resistance could be rejection of anything american that we don't feel is nessesary in OUR culture. we know that any local news from a country will have a certain amount of "feel good about your own country" vibe to it. we feel that CNN etc is your american local news, and we don't want it here. we don't want to blindly feel good about america, it doesn't help US sleep any better at night.
what we like is to feel good about our OWN country when we goto sleep at night.

a lot of this american "feel good about USA" propeganda (targetted towards americans) goes along the lines of "we are number 1".
in otherwords, implying that the USA is better than all other nations.

i understand why this would be a good idea in LOCAL american propeganda, and i'm fine with it, i don't mind what you think in your own country. but if you ever try to export this propeganda it will give an image of arrogence to other nations. because it really is quite an EXCLUSIVE message, it's not inclusive of the worth of other nations.

this message comes across in more than just the news you understand. it's somewhat pervasive in your local culture.
and unfortunately it isn't filtered out when you export your local culture to other nations.

hey that was quite profound wasn't it

i'm proud as punch with how this post turned out in the end ^_^

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:09 am

roid wrote:this message comes across in more than just the news you understand. it's somewhat pervasive in your local culture.
and unfortunately it isn't filtered out when you export your local culture to other nations.

Have you ever been to the States Roid? There's one thing slagging off the American world media, (a lot of it owned by an Aussie btw) but it's far different slagging off the "local" culture.

If you'd ever been to the States (i'm assuming you havn't) first off you'd know there's no such thing as local culture. Second you're judging a nation by it's tourists, probably teenagers full of hormones shouting from the roof tops that they're the greatest. So what!! So did i when i was a kid.

Lastly. I've done a crap load of trvelling in my youth, been everywhere practically. Except for Australia. Now my impression of Aussies is loud mouthed, sexist, arrogant American wannbees. I know for sure that this is not typical of Aussie culture.

Wether you like it or not Americans have shitz loads to be arrogant about...not just Miss Kidman, Don Bradman and skippy the bush kangeroo.

FC

(good grief...did i just defend the bloody yanks)

Couver_ · Post by **Couver_** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:32 am

[quote="roid"]
to tell the truth, (in many more ways than one) i think it would be better for all involved if american media stopped exporting all of it's stuff to the world, we feel kindof saturated by it (it's the smell, is there such a thing). so we find it quite refreshing to have an honest local opinion on our local news.
quote]

Yep you got us Roid its a plot to take over through the media. Is your channel changer broke or your off switch? Or is some American at your place holding a gun to your head making you watch CNN?

Call your local cable operator and have em remove CNN. We get BBC over here cause we want it. Not cause the Brits forced it on us.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:18 pm

Roid, I find it funny that you blame us for exporting our culture instead of blaming yourselves for importing it.
As far as I know we don't force feed it to you so learn to use the off switch.

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:19 pm

(murdock is not australian anymore btw, he's now american)

hey don't take it personally guys.
this thread for you to learn "how the US is seen", so i'm throwing out possibilities. it's purely academic, try entertaining the ideas.
please don't feel you have to counterattack.

Couver_ · Post by **Couver_** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:24 pm

Might have been a little strong there Roid I'm sorry..

To the 1st part of that post I watch CNN and think they can be clowns a lot of the time. Their coverage is pretty good though. I think it should not have such good info as our enemies are watching. I mean during the war a couple times they broadcast from our ship saying we had just launched a strike package...Jeesh the country is big and we hit all over but why tell them its comming again? They knew what route we had to take to get there. Had they had a decent Air Force they could have made if rough for our guys...

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:05 pm

Not really, we could have just pounded them with missiles from here ;P

Yeah, and what Krom said below

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:05 pm

But thats the nice thing about completely dominating the target, you can even tell them what you are going to do next and they still cant stop you.

Couver_ · Post by **Couver_** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:14 pm

Yes Krom but come a time like Somolia where the reporters met our guys on the beach our media is going to get some of our guys killed and not have to face any music..

Back to the thread sorry for straying of topic...

roid · Post by **roid** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:19 am

Flabby Chick wrote:
roid wrote:this message comes across in more than just the news you understand. it's somewhat pervasive in your local culture.
and unfortunately it isn't filtered out when you export your local culture to other nations.
Have you ever been to the States Roid? There's one thing slagging off the American world media, (a lot of it owned by an Aussie btw) but it's far different slagging off the "local" culture.

i wasn't slagging off the local culture. i said:
i understand why this would be a good idea in LOCAL american propeganda, and i'm fine with it, i don't mind what you think in your own country.

i understand that all nations need to have a cultural outlet for patriotism. wag your flags, it's all good.

the movie "pearl harbour" may have been all good and well within the USA, it inspires national pride etc i'm sure. nothing wrong with that. (i don't know, i refuse to watch it)
but how well do you think the movie "pearl harbour" was received in japan? you see, some things just should NOT be exported without really thinking about the audience it was originally created for (that being america). unless you are standing outside of the situation, looking in, i imagine it can be hard to see what is and isn't designed as purely-local feelgood-propeganda.

it's kinda like this:
you guys no doubt have a "buy american" slogan (or "%100 made in america" or somesuch). i'm sure it conjures up patriotic images, makes you feel good.
we have similar slogans here, "the buck stops here" or something similar. it makes me feel like i should buy australian, coz i am helping my country.

but what do you think would happen if you tried to tell someone from another nation to "buy american"?
they get no such patriotic charm from that, the first thing that would come into their minds is... "buy american? why?".

academically i'd like to get you's to fill out a questionare while watching some american show, trying to note all of the cultural differences and why this scene wouldn't be good in country A, B or C. or why country A B and C wouldn't understand this scene. or what a person from country A B or C would be seeing in this scene, that would be different to what an american would see.

(disclamer: this post was written to be academic, non confrontational, and encourages feedback to further refine or weaken the ideas put forward)

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:30 am

American Culture wouldn't get exported if no one wanted to buy it.

does Aussieland even have its own 24-hr talking heads show?

roid · Post by **roid** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:43 am

yeah i think so, it's called "sky news".

it's been a while since i've had cable so more may have spawned. when i had cable i think there was one other 24/7 aussie news station but i can't remember the name. it wasn't that great, it was prettymuch just aussies repeating everything CNN said.

is anyone familure with the america/australia free trade agreement in the works? Media access was/is a big concern of that. we currently have regulations stating that a certain percentage of programing MUST be local content, because otherwise the major stations will happily play almost solely american content. to them it's all about the money, it's cheaper for them to outsourse all of their content from the USA (so even now they run as much american content as they legally can).
only a couple of stations actaully CARE about local (or, at least more than just american) culture, and these are government funded ones.
a lot of australians (dare i say.. most australians?) are quite concerned that the free trade deal will give american media even MORE access and therefore influence on our culture.
but enough about my country's issues

, i'd rather talk on a global scale here.

bash · Post by **bash** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:48 am

FWIW, a good many Americans (myself included) think CNN is crap (and it is currently in a nosedive for marketshare). Fox (your old buddy Rupert) is kicking it's azz.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:51 am

Ok, now you explained yourself, i understand a bit better what you meant. What your complaining about is just a by product of globalisation, social and commercial.

If you think about it, one of the reason why we're all kicking the bollox out of each other at the moment is this very clash of culture that your talking about, and i guess it's going to get much worse before it gets better. There's not really much you can do about it, apart from disengaging yourself with the rest of the planet.

FC

roid · Post by **roid** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:21 am

well that's where the extra complexities come in that i was talking about before.

i don't think USA's local content propeganda* is compatable with the world market. it just doesn't seem that patriotic america is really *ready* to play nice with the rest of the patriotic world.
this could take a lot of further elaboration, if anyone wants to pick up the ball go for it, i gotta go make pizza.
(for teh record, australia the young nation, is prettymuch still culturally the child of the UK, we still share most in common)

i don't really mind other nation's media content. the most enjoyable movies i ever watch are generally from china, japan, russia, europe, arabia, etc (i don't particularly like indian movies). (and the last israeli movie i saw was very enjoyable flabby

)

*when i say propeganda, i don't nessesarily mean it in a bad way. should i say "nationalistic content" instead?

XeonJr · Post by **XeonJr** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:56 am

My dad was born and raised in the USA. He enrolled in the navy as a photo technician during the vietnam war. While serving his term he developed film directly contradicting the US administrations claim about the bombing of Laos. The whole experience soured him of any patriotism he had for the US.

I'd have to say I personally don't like the way patriotism has been twisted by the media as a means of controling the voters. This is especially true of the US. It has been bred into the american culture and not without purpose. I guess thats what roid has being trying to get at. People are trained to think and vote a certain way.

If you recall the week following 9/11 every car, building and sidewalk was plastered with american flags. 9/11 was just a politcal catalyst to lean the voters attention toward the middle-east.

During my stay in the US I watched a bit of MSNBC and CNN. It was amusing to me how different the content was compared to the international news. I loved the 1 minute world news

That's exactly what it was.. 1 whole minute out of 24 hours devoted to international coverage! It's little wonder to me why
alot of americans are so desencitized to the rest of the world.

During my stay I had a 50 year old america lady ask me if australia celebrated Christmas... Another lady I spoke to thought that Australia used USD as its currency and another time I was at an event where a spokesperson said that the US was the only country in the world that had school reunions.. HMMMMMMMM
Well I guess if your either not informed or misinformed who would be the wiser??

I dont know about you but I like to see the big picture. I'm just sick of being spoon fed bias coverage.

Bold Deceiver · Post by **Bold Deceiver** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:40 pm

XeonJr wrote:My dad was born and raised in the USA. He enrolled in the navy as a photo technician during the vietnam war. While serving his term he developed film directly contradicting the US administrations claim about the bombing of Laos. The whole experience soured him of any patriotism he had for the US.

Really. The bombing campaign in Laos had a 10 year duration. What "claim" about the bombing of Laos by the administration does your father contend was contradicted by photographic evidence?

BD

XeonJr · Post by **XeonJr** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:04 pm

The Nixon administration at the time denied reports that it was bombing laos. Dad developed hundreds of photos clearly showing that the administration had infact been bombing laos.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:37 pm

roid wrote:i don't think USA's local content propeganda* is compatable with the world market.

It must be or else you wouldn't see it all the way down there in Australia. Maybe it's not your cup of tea but someone down there must be buying it or else you wouldn't have it to complain about.

Bold Deceiver · Post by **Bold Deceiver** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:08 pm

XeonJr wrote:The Nixon administration at the time denied reports that it was bombing laos. Dad developed hundreds of photos clearly showing that the administration had infact been bombing laos.

Ah. And because the Nixon Administration professed that the bombings were kept clandestine for security reasons, your dad disagreed with that position.

BD

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:37 pm

Every country has a pretty large body of stupidity, it isn't just the US. I'm sure you could go to almost every country and talk to people there that dont have a clue about what goes on in the US just as easily as any other country. It all depends on who you're talking to.

Also, the US isn't the only country force feeding patriotic propoganda down the throat of its citizens. Every country that wants to thrive has to make sure the majority of the people born in that country are also willing to die for it.

Atleast a lot of the free countries give you the option of whether or not you want to be in the armed forces or not. We're not the only ones doing all this type of stuff, but we sure as hell continue to be singled out for it.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:02 pm

Thats because we make a whole lot more noise about it elsewhere then most countrys can.

Neo · Post by **Neo** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:12 pm

XeonJr wrote:During my stay in the US I watched a bit of MSNBC and CNN. It was amusing to me how different the content was compared to the international news. I loved the 1 minute world news That's exactly what it was.. 1 whole minute out of 24 hours devoted to international coverage! It's little wonder to me why
alot of americans are so desencitized to the rest of the world.

I dont know about you but I like to see the big picture. I'm just sick of being spoon fed bias coverage.

That's exactly why I don't watch the news. =P

XeonJr · Post by **XeonJr** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:15 pm

I'd have to disagree with you, BD. Playing the "security issue" card does not justify bold faced lying to the american people. This sort of misinformation is aimed moreso at keeping the agenda's untarnished in the eyes of the public.

Yes I would agree US isn't the only country force feeding propaganda but as Krom pointed out, it does make a habit of stepping on other countries toes during the process.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:27 pm

If the positions were swapped with any other country, they would be doing exactly the same thing tho. Any country that can mass export their media and propaganda will.

Bold Deceiver · Post by **Bold Deceiver** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:38 pm

Bold Deceiver wrote:
XeonJr wrote:The Nixon administration at the time denied reports that it was bombing laos. Dad developed hundreds of photos clearly showing that the administration had infact been bombing laos.
Ah. And because the Nixon Administration professed that the bombings were kept clandestine for security reasons, your dad disagreed with that position.

XeonJr wrote:I'd have to disagree with you, BD. Playing the "security issue" card does not justify bold faced lying to the american people.

You can disagree all you like. But the fact is that secrets are kept from the American people all the time, with the consent of the American people. One would be childish to believe otherwise.

You and your father may disagree with the degree to which secrets are kept from Americans. Knock yourselves out. Many Americans enjoy that same pastime. But most reasonable people agree that secrecy is part of the nature of warfare. Oliver Stone, notwithstanding.

I don't pretend to take a position of knowledge on the bombings in Laos -- I was 10 at the time. From an historical standpoint, I know the eventual revelation of the bombings inflamed a divided public on the question whether America should have been in the war, and to what degree. And I know that liberals revel in all sorts of conspiracy theories about Nixon's "secret bombing".

It should be noted, however, that Nixon campaigned (and won the election), on a "secret" plan to get America out of Vietnam -- after Kennedy got America into it. To me, your Dad's interesting opinion on the subject of unprincipled covert activity by the United States, is just that. An opinion.

BD