Health care reform is a moral and ethical obligation.

[Insurrectionist]

Didn't the Obama's staff cover up all religious icons at Georgetown University back in April of this year while taking about the economy? Did he not cover religious symbols bearing the name of Jesus?



So why now try to inject a religious argument into the health care reform debate?

Well now he has mobilizing religious groups against the White House.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/polit ... 49407.html

[Isaac]

That article jumps to several topics covered in other threads. I think the writer was angry.

So why now try to inject a religious argument into the health care reform debate?

The same reason any politician/sales man brings religion into anything: To close a deal.

You know this, otherwise you wouldn't have posted it. So you must have wanted support from those you agree with. I will give you some: "Your grammar is good."

[woodchip]

Well it would now appear that Barack \"The Godly\" Obama presumes he is on equal footing with the big guy:

“We are God’s partners in matters of life and death,” Obama went on to say, according to Moline’s real-time stream.\"

So for those of you who thought Palin's Death Panel comment was out of line....guess again.

[Spidey]

See, I told you there was no separation of church and state. :evil grin:

[CUDA]

See, I told you there was no separation of church and state. :evil grin:

Where's TC when you need her

she wrote this in her one of her complaints about GWB

Allowing powerful Evangelical Christian leaders to influence public policy in violation of the separation of church and state.

[Duper]

I don't think this is so much a religious issue as it is another shining example of our President's MO. He bullies his way into getting what he wants. He'll use any card, including the guilt card to hammer his pet legislation through.

This guy needs to leave. He has no honor.

[Kilarin]

I don't think this is so much a religious issue as it is another shining example of our President's MO. He bullies his way into getting what he wants. He'll use any card, including the guilt card to hammer his pet legislation through.

This guy needs to leave. He has no honor.

I don't disagree, but I've got to point out that for a moment I thought you were talking about our LAST president.

[TechPro]

Is it just me, or does this thread sould like it's only purpose is to be like several other threads that only exist to \"bash whoever the current US President is\" ...

bah, worthless thread.

[Bet51987]

Is it just me, or does this thread sould like it's only purpose is to be like several other threads that only exist to "bash whoever the current US President is" ...

bah, worthless thread.

It's not just you.

Bee

[Dedman]

I don't think this is so much a religious issue as it is another shining example of our President's MO. He bullies his way into getting what he wants. He'll use any card, including the guilt card to hammer his pet legislation through.

Since congress has most of the real power to legislate, doesn't EVERY President do this?

[Kilarin]

"bash whoever the current US President is"

The advantage of being a libertarian, is that you can participate in this sport no matter WHICH side is in office.

[Tunnelcat]

Where's TC when you need her

I'm touched that I'm needed.

Morality and human decency aren't always the exclusive realm of religion. For example, many religions don't treat women with respect or as equal human beings to men. Religions are just social structures created to explain human existence and death and to enforce their belief systems on others.

I am curious why even Obama hasn't tried using an ethical or moral argument for health care reform. At what point do we as a society let people suffer or die around us because they can't afford adequate health care? I know that most of you don't like Michael Moore's films, but did anyone see Sicko? There was one very emotional scene showing the practice of patient dumping by the L.A. County Hospital. A frail, sick older woman, still dressed in her open-backed hospital gown, was caught on a surveillance camera being dropped off by a taxi in front of a local Mission. She wandered around aimlessly for quite awhile until the head of the Mission came out and helped her. When he was interviewed, he said this was a common occurrence. That scene was the most moving thing I've seen in a movie. Even the audience became hushed and teary-eyed.

Most religions don't seem have any moral authority anymore. Evangelical Christianity is now obsessed with worshiping Capitalism, power and wealth. These same 'Christians' will fight to protect a fetus at all cost, even to the point of murdering doctors, but they won't stand up to champion for the lives of people who get sick and suffer because they are poor. Wasn't that something Jesus preached?

[CUDA]

Most religions don't seem have any moral authority anymore. Evangelical Christianity is now obsessed with worshiping Capitalism, power and wealth. These same 'Christians' will fight to protect a fetus at all cost, even to the point of murdering doctors, but they won't stand up to champion for the lives of people who get sick and suffer because they are poor. Wasn't that something Jesus preached?

it amazes me how much you talk about a subject that you OBVIOUSLY know nothing about. PM me and I'll try to explain it to you in better detail, but PLEASE "TRY" and listen and see what I'm saying and WHY I'm saying it

[woodchip]

TC, you have to look at the other side of the coin where socialized medicine has it's own horror stories.
Like people pulling their own teeth because they have to wait 6 months to see a dentist.
Somehow the media is trying to turn us into 18th century redskins where Obama is the Great White....er how would one phrase that nowadays?

[Insurrectionist]

Where's TC when you need her

I am curious why even Obama hasn't tried using an ethical or moral argument for health care reform. At what point do we as a society let people suffer or die around us because they can't afford adequate health care?

Ok I am confused here. You are now ok with a president using religious grounds to futher a decision involving national or regional policy? Haven't you been a speaking out on this issue?

[CUDA]

Where's TC when you need her

I am curious why even Obama hasn't tried using an ethical or moral argument for health care reform. At what point do we as a society let people suffer or die around us because they can't afford adequate health care?

Ok I confused here. You are now ok with a president using religious grounds to futher a decision involving national or regional policy? Haven't you been a speaking out on this issue?

every time she opens her mouth. but its ok to be religious when it suits her needs

[Will Robinson]

....I know that most of you don't like Michael Moore's films, but did anyone see Sicko? There was one very emotional scene showing the practice of patient dumping by the L.A. County Hospital. A frail, sick older woman, still dressed in her open-backed hospital gown, was caught on a surveillance camera being dropped off by a taxi in front of a local Mission. She wandered around aimlessly for quite awhile until the head of the Mission came out and helped her. When he was interviewed, he said this was a common occurrence. That scene was the most moving thing I've seen in a movie. Even the audience became hushed and teary-eyed....

Yea it is a sick twisted person who would do that. Thank God Obama and his team are on the case now

[Duper]

I don't think this is so much a religious issue as it is another shining example of our President's MO. He bullies his way into getting what he wants. He'll use any card, including the guilt card to hammer his pet legislation through.

Since congress has most of the real power to legislate, doesn't EVERY President do this?

Use guilt as a leveraging tool? Not that I'm aware of. Or at least not like Obama has been doing. I mean relly calling the American public immoral if they don't go along with what he wants? bah.

We are 10 trillion+ in debt to a foreign nation. There has been not real viable plan to even pay for the monster this is going to create. This peice of legislation was slated to pass this month!

As responsible citizens we have an obligation to to examine this bill(s) under close scrutiny. Make sure that everything is on the level. Be sure that this is what is best for the common wellfare and not make us slaves of our own government. It is our obligation to question when a certain party or person is trying to ram rod legislation through the process when this should take a year or so of close examination. And I'll say it again, this is not within the Federal Governments frame work of limitations to sponsor this kind of program.
That quote from Thomas Jefferson was not some cutetsy interjection. It Is the Truth. Most of the drafters of our Constitution were painfully aware of what happenes when government gets TOO big. It happened in their day and it's happening in ours.

[Kilarin]

but they won't stand up to champion for the lives of people who get sick and suffer because they are poor. Wasn't that something Jesus preached?

Not denying that this is sometimes a problem, but opposition to socialized medicine is NOT the same as lack of compassion for the poor. The main issue isn't whether someone should help the poor, but WHO should do it.

For example, at one jobI had, every year they had a "United Way" program. The supervisor would come up to each individual and explain that, while this program was ENTIRELY volunteer, they had a mandate to get 100% participation and expected you to chip in.

The first year, out of sheer cowardice, I did. But after that I grew a spine and turned them down flat. It's NOT that I don't support many of the causes that the United Way funds. It's that the United Way was an incredibly inefficient organization that only delivered 10 to 20 percent of donations to the actual causes it supported. The rest of your dollars went to overhead, administration, and advertising.

So I continue to give, but NEVER to the United Way. Giving to them is just throwing away dollars that could be helping people.

I feel the same way about socialized health care. The government is incredibly inefficient and I would much rather my dollars went directly to agencies that were helping the poor than running through the government agency filter and coming out only a few nickels and dimes.

[AlphaDoG]

Your Life, your choices

[Tunnelcat]

it amazes me how much you talk about a subject that you OBVIOUSLY know nothing about. PM me and I'll try to explain it to you in better detail, but PLEASE "TRY" and listen and see what I'm saying and WHY I'm saying it

OK. American Christian Evangelicalism

Evangelical Wealth

Sorry guys, I'll comment more later since I've been very busy trying to get my house repairs done before the winter rains set in. I'm having to do a lot of the small work myself. Contractors!!!!!!!!

[Tunnelcat]

OK CUDA, what's your opinion about this little book title since you seemed so upset with my descriptions of American Evangelicals....

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/MOREVE.html

Sorry to bump this up. Just found this today and it seems to be a relevant observation of the slightly twisted wedding of American Evangelical Christianity and their new obsession with Wealth and Prosperity.

This ties in with the seeming lack of moral and ethical authority in our health care debate by American religions leaders. Churches USED to run their hospitals as non-profit entities, but now I see the NEW Evangelical mission is to embrace our twisted pay-for-care health insurance system. MONEY IS GOD!

[Duper]

money may be Your God and the worlds, but it's not Cuda's. Also, he said to PM him.

[Dedman]

Use guilt as a leveraging tool? Not that I'm aware of. Or at least not like Obama has been doing. I mean relly calling the American public immoral if they don't go along with what he wants? bah.

Please don't misinterpret my post as defending Obama, because I'm not, but how is that any different than Bush calling the American public unpatriotic if they didn't go along with what he wanted?