New voice of the GOP

[Bet51987]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/11/ ... index.html

Being a disrespectul child really does help after all.

Bee

[Spidey]

Good for him, Obama is a liar.

[Gooberman]

Wilson's opponent raises more than $500K

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ises-100k/

He should lose his seat.

[Bet51987]

Good for him, Obama is a liar.

No he's not. I know there's no turning back from the direction you've taken but for what it's worth....


"Joe Wilson of South Carolina said Obama lied, but he didn't."

"When we look at all of this evidence, it seems that health reform leaves in place the status quo on illegal immigration, and certainly does not provide any new benefits particularly for illegal immigrants"

"We don't find the public option argument enough to make the case that Obama "lied." We rate Wilson's statement False."


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -he-didnt/

Bee

[CUDA]

This is from his speach

OBAMA: \"I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period.\"

THE FACTS: Though there's no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they're ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.

House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Office said would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn't have to count $245 billion of it -- the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don't face big annual pay cuts.

Their reasoning was that they already had decided to exempt this \"doc fix\" from congressional rules that require new programs to be paid for. In other words, it doesn't have to be paid for because they decided it doesn't have to be paid for.

The administration also said that since Obama already had included the doctor payment in his 10-year budget proposal, it didn't have to be counted again.

That aside, the long-term prognosis for costs of the health care legislation has not been good.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf had this to say in July: \"We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount.\"

Lie #1

OBAMA: \"Don't pay attention to those scary stories about how your benefits will be cut. ... That will never happen on my watch. I will protect Medicare.\"

THE FACTS: Obama and congressional Democrats want to pay for their health care plans in part by reducing Medicare payments to providers by more than $500 billion over 10 years. The cuts would largely hit hospitals and Medicare Advantage, the part of the Medicare program operated through private insurance companies.

Although wasteful spending in Medicare is widely acknowledged, many experts believe some seniors almost certainly would see reduced benefits from the cuts. That's particularly true for the 25 percent of Medicare users covered through Medicare Advantage.

Supporters contend that providers could absorb the cuts by improving how they operate and wouldn't have to reduce benefits or pass along costs. But there's certainly no guarantee they wouldn't.

Lie #2


at least TRY to pay attention

[Bet51987]

...at least TRY to pay attention

I pay attention? Ummm.. This thread was about Joe Wilson's comment about illegals.

During President Obama's major health care speech on Wednesday, South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson (R) yelled out "You lie!" when the President said the legislation would not mandate coverage for undocumented immigrants.

Bee

[woodchip]

I'm wondering where Bee was when all those disrespectful children were heckiling Bush?:

\"In 2004, Democrats delivered a “Chorus Of Boos” during Bush’s Bush’s State Of The Union when he called for renewal of the Patriot Act., according to the Washington Times.

In 2005, Dems howled, hissed and shouted \"No!\" when Bush pushed for Social Security reform in the SOU: \"Foreshadowing the contentiousness of the coming debate, Democrats broke decorum and booed twice,\" according to the National Journal.

At the time, CNN’s Bill Schneider remarked, “It was unusual. I had never heard it at least at that level before. The Democrats clearly were booing, heckling, saying no when the president talked about the crisis in Social Security.\"

It is really pathetic when all of of sudden their guy is getting the same treatment the Libs had no qualms handing out in a prior administration and now we need to be civil. Why? When the Dems learn how to be civil perhaps the other side will treat them in a like manner.

Oh and has Polosi cleaned house and got all the scandalous crooked Dems like Charlie Wrangle to resign?

[CUDA]

Good for him, Obama is a liar.

No he's not.
Bee

the comment was Obeyme is a liar, you said no he's not. so in your mind he not a Liar on the immigration issue. but he is on the other issues????

[woodchip]

...at least TRY to pay attention

I pay attention? Ummm.. This thread was about Joe Wilson's comment about illegals.

During President Obama's major health care speech on Wednesday, South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson (R) yelled out "You lie!" when the President said the legislation would not mandate coverage for undocumented immigrants.

Bee

It is a lie Bee.:

"Well, Mr. President, that idea must have been tucked under a stack of background briefing papers over there in the corner of the table because the Congressional Research Service (CRS) says this about H.R. 3200, the Obamacare bill approved just before the recess by the House Energy and Commerce Committee chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-CA:
"Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."

CRS also notes that the bill has no provision for requiring those seeking coverage or services to provided proof of citizenship. So, absent some major amendments to the legislation and a credible, concrete enforcement effort in action, looks like the myth on this issue is the one being spread by Obama, Reid, Pelosi, et. al. "

http://tinylink.co.za/9ab3c5

So you see Obama is really a bigger liar than Bush.

[Spidey]

I’m sorry Bettina, but the president had to go and make it personal. I liked Obama, even tho I disagree with his political beliefs, I did respect him as the president. I recorded the speech because I had some work to do, when I was done I came downstairs to watch the prez, only to have him use a slanderous lie, in an effort to use people like me as a scapegoat.

People having insurance thru their employer and insurance in general is the reason “I” have to pay so much for health care, but the president went and turned reality upside down, slandered my name, and made me a scapegoat, for political reasons.

Sorry, there is no going back, it’s personal now.

I don’t know about the illegal immigrant thing but, if you want the rest of the list, I would be glad to provide it.

[Bet51987]

...the comment was Obeyme is a liar, you said no he's not. so in your mind he not a Liar on the immigration issue. but he is on the other issues????

Have fun with that twist Cuda...

And, in 2004 I was more interested in getting my drivers license than politics.

And Spidey... fair enough. I was talking about the illegals and the error Joe Wilson made. I wasn't aware of your personal problem with Obama.

Bee

[CUDA]

...the comment was Obeyme is a liar, you said no he's not. so in your mind he not a Liar on the immigration issue. but he is on the other issues????

Have fun with that twist Cuda...

And, in 2004 I was more interested in getting my drivers license than politics.

And Spidey... fair enough. I was talking about the illegals and the error Joe Wilson made. I wasn't aware of your personal problem with Obama.

Bee

Try and keep up here Bee, I understand your having a blond moment, but if your going to try and have discussions with the adults then you'll need to understand english.

Wilson called him a Liar. it doesnt matter the context of the accusation, if he lie's about 1 thing then the man is a liar. now I understand in Lib world your only a liar if your a Republican, but here in reality if you lie about anything you are a liar. while I understand that for you the concept of that might be hard to grasp. please focus for a minute and MAYBE the little light bulb in your head will flicker at least for just a brief minute and you'll have add an epiphany of knowledge to your meager exisitance

[AlphaDoG]

If you think Bush never lied, and you think Obama hasn't lied, then lube up for the government sponsored pap smear/prostate exam the government is about to give you.

Don't worry it's painless.

Partisan Politics. I LOL!

[Bet51987]

...Wilson called him a Liar. it doesnt matter the context of the accusation...

Your name calling makes me laugh. I really need to be more like an adult and do that too. However that little light bulb in my blond head did flicker for a fleeting moment and in the dim light I could see the word strawman.

Immediately after the president's speech Wednesday night, Wilson issued a statement saying, "This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President's remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill.

You knew exactly what the topic reference was but decided to change it and go from there. If you want to call Obama a liar in the general sense, that's fine, but do it in another thread.

Obama wasn't lying and you need to go to church.

Bettina

[d3jake]

Obama wasn't lying and you need to go to church.

I'm sure more than I will make comment on this... but I have to say something.

To assume that church will suddenly improve somebody's moral stature is laughable and wrong. Think of all of the people who have committed atrocities and see if they went to chruch. gasp I forgot, they were wrong because they don't interpret the Bible\\Koran\\Torah in a certain way... my bad.

[Duper]

incidentally, they have a bill on the floor that will let Planned Parenthood set up clinics in schools. Also, they won't answer to the schools.

And Bet, the president knew a number of things but spun them so they would be more palatable. Like the unemployment rate. He Knew that it would go higher than 8% even with the \"stimulus package\" .. which our great grand kids won't be able to pay off ... but he and his advisors didn't think that a 10%+ would go over very well.

This guy cuts deals that favor labor unions. ... a LOT. labor unions have become some of THE most accepted organized crime in this country today. (I'm not saying all of them) Also, I've heard him day after day mock and deride anyone that disagrees with him. That isn't humility, that school yard antics. I don't trust the man.

[Stroodles]

...Wilson called him a Liar. it doesnt matter the context of the accusation...

Your name calling makes me laugh. I really need to be more like an adult and do that too. However that little light bulb in my blond head did flicker for a fleeting moment and in the dim light I could see the word strawman.

Immediately after the president's speech Wednesday night, Wilson issued a statement saying, "This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President's remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill.

You knew exactly what the topic reference was but decided to change it and go from there. If you want to call Obama a liar in the general sense, that's fine, but do it in another thread.

Obama wasn't lying and you need to go to church.

Bettina

If you read the OTHER posts, he WAS lying on the immigration thing as well. If he didn't want to cover illegals, why is he tossing the 47 million number around?

[Cuda68]

Horse Hockey - You where well on the road to being a liberal in 2004 and here is your post from Sep 29, 2004

My Dad says the elections are always between the National Rifle Association and the Teachers Union.

...the comment was Obeyme is a liar, you said no he's not. so in your mind he not a Liar on the immigration issue. but he is on the other issues????

Have fun with that twist Cuda...

And, in 2004 I was more interested in getting my drivers license than politics.

And Spidey... fair enough. I was talking about the illegals and the error Joe Wilson made. I wasn't aware of your personal problem with Obama.

Bee

[AlphaDoG]

Obama wasn't lying and you need to go to church.

Bettina

ob·fus·cate
* Pronunciation: \\ˈäb-fə-ˌskāt; äb-ˈfəs-ˌkāt, əb- * Function: verb
* Inflected Form(s): ob·fus·cat·ed; ob·fus·cat·ing
* Etymology: Late Latin obfuscatus, past participle of obfuscare, from Latin ob- in the way + fuscus dark brown — more at ob-, dusk
* Date: 1577

transitive verb
1 a : darken
b : to make obscure <obfuscate the issue>

2 : confuse <obfuscate the reader>

intransitive verb : to be evasive, unclear, or confusing

— ob·fus·ca·tion \\ˌäb-(ˌ)fəs-ˈkā-shən\\ noun

— ob·fus·ca·to·ry \\äb-ˈfəs-kə-ˌtȯr-ē, əb-\\ adjective

[Insurrectionist]

I'm still waiting on a politician to come around who isn't a lair.

“Politics: “Poli” a Latin word meaning “many”; and "tics" meaning “bloodsucking creatures”.

“I was really too honest a man to be a politician and live.”

"The short memories of American voters is what keeps our politicians in office”

“What this country needs are more unemployed politicians”

“The magician and the politician have much in common: they both have to draw our attention away from what they are really doing.”

[d3jake]

I'm still waiting on a politician to come around who isn't a lair.

Won't happen until we have a major revolt of some kind.

[Foil]

I'm still waiting on a politician to come around who isn't a lair.

Won't happen until we have a major revolt of some kind.

Won't happen at all. Revolutions don't make politicians more honest. They just put different politicians in power.

[Bet51987]

Horse Hockey - You where well on the road to being a liberal in 2004 and here is your post from Sep 29, 2004

My Dad says the elections are always between the National Rifle Association and the Teachers Union.

I remembered my dad telling me that and I thought it was interesting to post it, but believe me, politics was low on my radar screen and it was only when I approached voting age did I begin paying attention.

Bettina

[AlphaDoG]

Horse Hockey - You where well on the road to being a liberal in 2004 and here is your post from Sep 29, 2004

My Dad says the elections are always between the National Rifle Association and the Teachers Union.

I remembered my dad telling me that and I thought it was interesting to post it, but believe me, politics was low on my radar screen and it was only when I approached voting age did I begin paying attention.

Bettina

Does kind of illustrate the point that you parrot more than you think.

[Bet51987]

Does kind of illustrate the point that you parrot more than you think.

Whatever...

Bee

[Tunnelcat]

Isn't everyone arguing semantics here? We KNOW politicians lie all the time, it's a FACT! We don't need someone standing up in Congress (they all lie too) and yelling it out of disrespect during a Presidential speech! I think there are several points that are being missed in the arguing here.

1) Decorum was violated.

2) It was disrespectful to the President.

3) The perpetrator (Wilson) is now using it to further his political status.

Even in the British Parliament, where all sorts of yelling and caterwauling goes on, NO ONE dares to call the Prime Minister a lier to his face in session. It's just not part of decorum. At the very least, Wilson should be censured.

[Spidey]

Lol, and the prez in using those “lies” to further “his” political career.

So pointing out the liars, is worse than the lies?

I don’t know but…if you are lieing right to someone’s face…you deserve what you get. Maybe the prez needs to keep his lieing to press conferences, and campaign speeches.

[CUDA]

Isn't everyone arguing semantics here? We KNOW politicians lie all the time, it's a FACT! We don't need someone standing up in Congress (they all lie too) and yelling it out of disrespect during a Presidential speech! I think there are several points that are being missed in the arguing here.

1) Decorum was violated.

2) It was disrespectful to the President.

3) The perpetrator (Wilson) is now using it to further his political status.

Even in the British Parliament, where all sorts of yelling and caterwauling goes on, NO ONE dares to call the Prime Minister a lier to his face in session. It's just not part of decorum. At the very least, Wilson should be censured.

OMG I think Hell just froze over I agree with TC


EDIT: but I agree with Spidey also

[Tunnelcat]

Too bad no one in Congress called Bush a lier (he was lying as well) when he wanted to go to war with Iraq. Would that have been justified as a breach of decorum in Congress if a Democrat had done back then? I'll bet the Republicans would have screamed for censure or even the ousting of the Congressman who had dared do it to Bush.

See CUDA, we can agree!

[CUDA]

Too bad no one in Congress called Bush a lier (he was lying as well) when he wanted to go to war with Iraq. Would that have been justified as a breach of decorum in Congress if a Democrat had done back then? I'll bet the Republicans would have screamed for censure or even the ousting of the Congressman who had dared do it to Bush.

See CUDA, we can agree!

now ya went and done it just when I thought there was hope for our relationship you went and said its all Bush's fault again

[woodchip]

If you want decorum, go see how the Wellstone funeral was used to further the Dems cause.

[Tunnelcat]

Too bad no one in Congress called Bush a lier (he was lying as well) when he wanted to go to war with Iraq. Would that have been justified as a breach of decorum in Congress if a Democrat had done back then? I'll bet the Republicans would have screamed for censure or even the ousting of the Congressman who had dared do it to Bush.

See CUDA, we can agree!

now ya went and done it just when I thought there was hope for our relationship you went and said its all Bush's fault again

Nope. I just used him as a example of the reverse situation in which a lot of Congressional and political rancor surrounded an administration. The Dems could have been big buttheads themselves, but I guess the Dems are just too spineless.

[Will Robinson]

Congress censuring Wilson for calling a liar a liar is like the Mafia breaking the legs of a thief because he stole something out the front door of a store while they are in the back room taking a percentage of the owners cash as 'protection money'.

Sure in both examples it fits with 'decorum'...but do you have any empathy for them? Do you really want to qualify your own moral integrity by taking their side in the dispute?

If all the congressmen and media would always call a lie a lie instead of making excuses and euphemisms we would be better off!

[CUDA]

so now if you call a black man a Liar your a member of the KKK.

Congressman Suggests People Will Don 'White Hoods' If Wilson Not Rebuked
In an obvious reference to the KKK, Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., says that people will put on \"white hoods and ride through the countryside\" if emerging racist attitudes, which he says were subtly supported by Rep. Joe Wilson, are not rebuked. He said Wilson must be disciplined as an example.

Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst last week is drawing new recriminations from his colleagues, with a member of the Congressional Black Caucus suggesting that a failure to rebuke the South Carolina Republican is tantamount to supporting the most blatant form of organized racism in American history.

edit: so Bee what do you think since you thought I was Off Topic by calling Obama liar on other issues. this is direct on your initial point.

Do you agree is this man a racist?

[Bet51987]

so now if you call a black man a Liar your a member of the KKK.

Congressman Suggests People Will Don 'White Hoods' If Wilson Not Rebuked
In an obvious reference to the KKK, Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., says that people will put on "white hoods and ride through the countryside" if emerging racist attitudes, which he says were subtly supported by Rep. Joe Wilson, are not rebuked. He said Wilson must be disciplined as an example.

Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst last week is drawing new recriminations from his colleagues, with a member of the Congressional Black Caucus suggesting that a failure to rebuke the South Carolina Republican is tantamount to supporting the most blatant form of organized racism in American history.

edit: so Bee what do you think since you thought I was Off Topic by calling Obama liar on other issues. this is direct on your initial point.

Do you agree is this man a racist?

When Joe Wilson called Obama a liar, in reference to the illegal immigrants, he was both factually wrong and professionally contemptible. This is no way for a member of congress to treat any President of the United States. Either he clearly didn't know the facts or he's still emotional over the wounds of November...or both.

There was no racism in Joe Wilson's comment and his apology to the President was accepted as I knew it would be. This should be the end of it and it irks me that some democrats are making an issue of it. I would feel much differently if Joe Wilson did it again.

As far as Hank Johnson.... He comes across as a bigger jerk than Joe Wilson.

Bettina

[Bold Deceiver]

When Joe Wilson called Obama a liar, in reference to the illegal immigrants, he was both factually wrong and professionally contemptible. This is no way for a member of congress to treat any President of the United States. Either he clearly didn't know the facts or he's still emotional over the wounds of November...or both.

There was no racism in Joe Wilson's comment and his apology to the President was accepted as I knew it would be. This should be the end of it and it irks me that some democrats are making an issue of it. I would feel much differently if Joe Wilson did it again.

As far as Hank Johnson.... He comes across as a bigger jerk than Joe Wilson.

Bettina

Your father should be proud of you. I see no parroting; I see a person working through the facts and honestly arriving at supported conclusions. I don't agree with all of these conclusions, by the way. But hey, when I was your age I think I cast my first vote for Carter. Thankfully, my side lost.

Nice read, I enjoyed the posts. And nice to see some old faces again.

BD

[Stroodles]

I don't believe Obama on the immigrant thing, but Wilson...come on....don't be fail...As for the 'he's a rascist' thing, It shows race issues in America about the issue in general, but not toward the so-called 'rascists'. The mentality that people against Obama are simply rascists only makes sense if you look at him as being black. I look at him being a president. I'm glad we have a president from a minority, it opens up a lot of doors that would otherwise have been closed. But when I disagree with him, it is because of his presidential descisions, simply that. I believe most people are the same way.

[woodchip]

When Joe Wilson called Obama a liar, in reference to the illegal immigrants, he was both factually wrong and professionally contemptible.

Bettina

Perhaps Bee, you should of read my reply on the first page of this topic:

It is a lie Bee.:

"Well, Mr. President, that idea must have been tucked under a stack of background briefing papers over there in the corner of the table because the Congressional Research Service (CRS) says this about H.R. 3200, the Obamacare bill approved just before the recess by the House Energy and Commerce Committee chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-CA:
"Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."

CRS also notes that the bill has no provision for requiring those seeking coverage or services to provided proof of citizenship. So, absent some major amendments to the legislation and a credible, concrete enforcement effort in action, looks like the myth on this issue is the one being spread by Obama, Reid, Pelosi, et. al. "

http://tinylink.co.za/9ab3c5

[woodchip]

Oh, and good to see you are still around BD

[Bet51987]

Your father should be proud of you. I see no parroting; I see a person working through the facts and honestly arriving at supported conclusions. I don't agree with all of these conclusions, by the way. But hey, when I was your age I think I cast my first vote for Carter. Thankfully, my side lost.

Nice read, I enjoyed the posts. And nice to see some old faces again.

BD

Thanks BD. Nice to see your name again and yes, he is proud of me as I am of him.

Bee