descent.cx tracker and our LAN

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:21 pm

Hi people, me and my dad are trying to play online and when either one of us are already playing and the other signs in, he gets the error \"No Response From Server.\" This makes no sense to me. Help?

BTW my pops used to play way back in the day but he is VERY rusty so I hope you look forward to killing BADAD if we get this fixed!

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:42 pm

you need to each use a different port in the misc section of d3 launcher

-useport 2093 machine 1
-useport 2094 machine 2

then in the router
~ forward port 2093 to machine 1's ip address
~ forward port 2094 to machine 2's ip address

so if you ever have a guest they can use the default of 2092 without configuring their machine or if you have a separate server machine it will be easier to connect from the outside with just an ip address

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:56 pm

Im not too too computer savvy so could you explain this to me a little bit?

do i add \"machine 1\" in the command?

What do you mean \"in the router\"?

im confused

Thomas01 · Post by **Thomas01** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:42 pm

Each one of you has his own computer, I suppose. How do you connect to the internet?

You got to have some sort of \"box\" somewhere to which you're both connected to.

I don't think what Bubbalou suggested needs to be done, because a router should be able to cope with two clients.
However, I think your router is not configured properly or has a firmware bug.

First, turn off the router's firewall. A router doesn't need a firewall, at least not to protect PCs behind it.

What model/type is your router?

Thomas01 · Post by **Thomas01** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:53 pm

Rereading your description of the issue - I don't believe it.

Are you sure that you both were trying to join a D3 game on the internet? On Vortex or the tracker? And the server was up and running?

If that is really the case, then you should bring your router back to where you bought it. Seriously.

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:14 pm

Thomas01 wrote:Rereading your description of the issue - I don't believe it.

Are you sure that you both were trying to join a D3 game on the internet? On Vortex or the tracker? And the server was up and running?

If that is really the case, then you should bring your router back to where you bought it. Seriously.

I was trying to join the descentforum.net #9 server with the bots. I was using the tracker. My dad's computer is connected to a router, which is connected to the wall; the internet. The router is a Netgear WGR614 v4. My computer connects to the router with a built in network adapter. Both firewalls HAVE BEEN completely off.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:17 pm

Try part of Bubba's solution -- add \"-useport 2093\" (w/o the \"\") to the commandline of one client (yours or your dads) and check what happens when you both try to join the same server. Forwarding any port shouldn't be necessary unless you start hosting servers. The routers firewall should be on at all time !

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:23 pm

No dice.

It still is saying no \"response from server\".

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:26 pm

Can he actually join a server when you are not playing ?

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:26 pm

Yup. Both of us can

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:33 pm

Wierd. It actually should work w/o any changes to the network (done it myself from a LAN party, talked to people that do it on a regular basis). What is behind the WGR614, cable modem, DSL modem ?

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:38 pm

No.

EDITED

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:08 pm

FOUND SOMETHING:

we can both go online, just as long as we are not in the same server

Thomas01 · Post by **Thomas01** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:59 am

It must be a router setting. Some firewall or security setting from the WAN.

Turn everything you can find off. Routers don't need a firewall (actually, they *are* nothing but some sort of a firewall by design already) unless you have a static IP. In that case you can turn some flood recognitions on, if it has options for them.

Try to find something about multicast, maybe this is where the router tries to interfere. Or \"Block anonymous requests\". Just some shots in the dark.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:17 am

This one is easy to fix, on your computer set it to: -useport 2093
And on your dads computer set it to: -useport 2094

There is nothing wrong with your router and no need to forward ports/change settings, it should work so long as each computer is using a different port.

Thomas01 · Post by **Thomas01** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:12 am

Krom wrote:This one is easy to fix, on your computer set it to: -useport 2093
And on your dads computer set it to: -useport 2094

There is nothing wrong with your router and no need to forward ports/change settings, it should work so long as each computer is using a different port.

Sorry, Krom, that's absolutely crap. It might work like this if you ran the game twice from the *same* computer, but not on different clients behind the network. The router has to take care of that each one gets its packets.

If it doesn't, it's not configured properly or has a firmware bug.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:20 am

Thomas; you have no idea what you are talking about or how Descent 3 TCP/IP games over NAT routers work. There is nothing wrong with the router, it is just how D3 netgames work when NAT is involved. Both computers have to be on different ports or it simply won't work in exactly the same manner as S13driftAZ described.

Just for kicks ask him to reverse the order in which computer joins the server first before applying the fix. If he tries to join on his dads computer first it will get in fine and his computer will be unable to connect. If he quits from his dads computer his computer will once again be able to join the game. This is because the ports conflict between the two computers and only one computer can use the port at a time. Thus you specify different ports for each computer and they will both be able to connect.

Thomas01 · Post by **Thomas01** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:43 am

Krom wrote:Thomas; you have no idea what you are talking about or how Descent 3 TCP/IP games over NAT routers work. There is nothing wrong with the router, it is just how D3 netgames work when NAT is involved. Both computers have to be on different ports or it simply won't work in exactly the same manner as S13driftAZ described

A few hours ago, I tried exactly this. I joined a game server (Dad's house or so) twice from the same computer by using -useport for one of the D3 installations. That's required because Descent 3 does not assign random ports as it is supposed to (like every other network appication works).

Then I went for the same test from two different computers, no -useport involved. It worked, too.

So please, don't tell me I have no idea how it works.

Krom wrote:Just for kicks ask him to reverse the order in which computer joins the server first before applying the fix. If he tries to join on his dads computer first it will get in fine and his computer will be unable to connect. If he quits from his dads computer his computer will once again be able to join the game. This is because the ports conflict between the two computers and only one computer can use the port at a time. Thus you specify different ports for each computer and they will both be able to connect.

What you describe here is exactly what happens if the router doesn't work properly. I reckon it's one of the extended firewall settings, because I had this problem a couple of years back too. Unfortunately, I can't remember now which setting I had to change on the router for it to work afterwards.

It's quite a lot of work to change router configs, then run forth and back between the computers just to find out what's wrong.

No, D3 doesn't know about NAT, but it doesn't have to. That's what routers have firmware for.

If what you claim was true, you'd get no connection all the time with your internet browser from two computers as well. One machine does not know which port it can't open because some other computer uses it already. It's the router's job to maintain the routing, that's why it's called router.

Thomas01 · Post by **Thomas01** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:48 am

Thomas01 wrote:because I had this problem a couple of years back too. Unfortunately, I can't remember now which setting I had to change on the router for it to work afterwards.

No, sorry, I'm getting confused.

I had a slightly different issue with routing back, it was not related to what the problem is here.

Thomas01 · Post by **Thomas01** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:29 pm

I can't reproduce this here, no matter what I change on the router (all flood options/firewall on or off). I can always join the same server from different computers at the same time without any -useport parameters.

I now tend to believe it's a firmware bug, but still haven't dropped the idea of it being a setting in the OPs router.

Although probably not related, I remember that Mzero had to change her (French) internet provider (Tele.fr or so, I can't remember), because all of a sudden they started to block UDP. It took ages to figure out that the ISP had changed their routing policies. Without any changes on her end, it worked instantly as soon as she connected to a different provider. I don't think this is the case here, because UDP seems to work in general.

Just to make sure everybody understands this finally:
This is NOT a config issue with D3, that's clearly an issue with the router.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:52 pm

I also ran into the same issue at a LAN party once, which I quickly resolved by changing ports. If its a router issue, it is universal to older Linksys routers. Perhaps your router is smarter and recognizes when there is going to be a listening port conflict and changes the port in NAT, I've never tried it on my newer D-Link router but I have run into the exact problem before on more than one Linksys router. One of the settings I could see having an effect on it would be the SPI endpoint filtering or whatever Linksys calls that setting (its the NAT full/port/restricted/symmetrical cone setting).

Thomas01 · Post by **Thomas01** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:21 pm

This SPI thingy sounds very reasonable. He has a Netgear router, but they may have a similar filter.

The router I tested on is an older model too: Linksys WRT54G2

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:07 pm

Okay, it doesn't matter which one of us signs into a server first, using the -useport commands on both of our computers doesn't work and I'm starting to not know what the heck you guys are talking about now.

EDIT: dont know if you guys remember this post

S13driftAZ wrote:FOUND SOMETHING:

we can both go online, just as long as we are not in the same server

But I would think it would help diagnose something

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:40 pm

If you could do me a favor and make sure the command line options are really taking by adding in the -nosound option and making sure that sounds do not play?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:31 pm

If the modem has its own firewall/filtering it could be rooted there. Did you guys ever update the firmware of that WGR614 ?

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:13 pm

Why are you arguing about what needs to be done. just follow my first post... not that complicated

if you're lazy just add the \"-useport 2093\" in the misc section of the D3 Launcher on 2nd machine (DAD's)

The router does not need to be touched unless you have disabled UPnP or the Firmware is faulty for UPnP. This is when static port mapping is required in the router (I have UPnP Disabled in my router)in which you add Port Forwarding \"UDP\" on 2093-2093 to the Destination IP or MAC for the 2nd machine (DAD's)

NOT
THAT
COMPLICATED

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:51 pm

BUBBALOU wrote:Why are you arguing about what needs to be done. just follow my first post... not that complicated

if you're lazy just add the "-useport 2093" in the misc section of the D3 Launcher on 2nd machine (DAD's)

Facepalm

Read and you will see that that DOESNT WORK!!!!

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:45 am

S13driftAZ wrote:
BUBBALOU wrote:Why are you arguing about what needs to be done. just follow my first post... not that complicated

if you're lazy just add the "-useport 2093" in the misc section of the D3 Launcher on 2nd machine (DAD's)
Facepalm

Read and you will see that that DOESNT WORK!!!!

You use d3.descent.cx to get into games ? You need to add the -useport parameter via the "Other options" line..

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:19 am

S13driftAZ wrote:Read and you will see that that DOESNT WORK!!!!

I see that you refuse the obvious.. it's ok I've only been enjoying multiplayer from all the PC's on my Network since Kali

You want to take the hard route... but eventually you shall do what I posted even if you give some other excuse to cover it

BTW adding the command line in the D3 Launcher and then using Vortex/CX BATCH File to test is your facepalm .... when you figure that out I'll give you a cookie

THIS IS NOT COMPLICATED when you take the time to follow directions the light will come on

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:26 am

Gren and Bubbalou are right. The -useport 2093 line should be added to one of the computers (not both), in the settings for whatever you're using to launch the game. It will work.

If you're launching through the D3 Launcher, put it in the Additional Options in the Misc tab.
If you're launching through the .cx tracker, it must be in the \"Other Options\" field.
If you're launching through Vortex, it must be in the Settings -> D3 Settings -> Commandline Options tab.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:30 am

Foil, I was trying to save the Cookie for S13driftAZ

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:03 pm

Im not refusing anything... I tried what you and everyone else told me to, and it doesnt work! how many times do i have to say it?

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:35 pm

S13driftAZ,

Chill a moment. Let's start over. Give me the following info:

1. D3 on your machine:
- Startup method (launcher, .cx, Vortex)
- Command-line options for that startup method

2. D3 on dad's machine:
- Startup method (launcher, .cx, Vortex)
- Command-line options for that startup method

3. Name / ip of server

--------

Just FYI, the reason people are asking about the method you're using to start the game is that it's important. For example: if you use the .cx tracker to start the game, it ignores your settings in the launcher.

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:14 pm

Foil wrote:Just FYI, the reason people are asking about the method you're using to start the game is that it's important. For example: if you use the .cx tracker to start the game, it ignores your settings in the launcher.

Thank you so much, I did not know that.

Foil wrote:1. D3 on your machine:
- Startup method (launcher, .cx, Vortex)
- Command-line options for that startup method and where they're being set

im using .cx tracker
putting -useport 2093 in the misc setings in the launcher

These are the same on my dad's machine, except he's using -useport 2094

Server is the descentforum.net #9 with the bots.
p.s. it doesnt matter which server one of us is in, the other cant join the same one. but we CAN be in DIFFERENT servers at the same time.

EDIT: tried vortex and could never figure out how to use it, so I use the tracker.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:54 pm

S13driftAZ wrote:im using .cx tracker
putting -useport 2093 in the misc setings in the launcher

"in the launcher"?

If you mean the D3 Launcher window, that's your problem!

The "-useport 209x" setting needs to be in the "Other options" field on the .cx page:

(Hit the "Save Command Line" button to save it for the next time you use the .cx page.)

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:05 pm

OMG, wow I fail! ...sorry for not realizing that

EDIT: YES! YES! WORKS! FOIL I WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:43 pm

That is why I asked you to test with -nosound to make sure you were putting the command line options in the right place...

S13driftAZ · Post by **S13driftAZ** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:46 pm

Hahaha thank you Krom and thanks to everyone else that helped

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:22 pm

Lesson: don't skim. These guys were giving you the right advice, before I came along.

Glad you got it working.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:59 pm

hahaha he called Bubba FacePalm!

descent.cx tracker and our LAN

descent.cx tracker and our LAN

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