Sound-sensitive multi-color LED on house current.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:57 am

I have a pretty fun project that I'd like to complete. It's not terribly complex, but I only know what I need to do, not what the things I need really are. I have experience soldering, doing generic car audio for years.

I have a pool table in my living room, and the standard 3-lights on a chain pool light.

I also have a sound-sensitive novelty plasma lighting thing...flat glass with the lightning spreading across, you know what I mean...look in Spencers. I mounted it behind the speaker-surrounded TV so when I'm listening to music, it flashes behind it (turning off for movies of course)

I'd like to wire the pool table lights so they also flash in this manner. I'm trying to put a group of LEDs in 3 colors (red/white/blue) of 6 each in the light shades, controlled by an on/off/sound switch, and a color selection switch. This would be wired into the light's 110v house current.

My obstacles are:

Where to get the parts. I don't know any websites, and have no feedback of the sites I find as to whether or not they are the Newegg of the electronics world.

Converting house current into DC current without a wall wart. This is going to be sticking on the light bar. I need to minimize the visual impact. I can't have some Radio Shack thing on my pool light. I could make a small box at the top of the chain where it connects to the ceiling...my possibilities are determined by with what I'm going to have. Is there a website that I can order an AC/DC converter? Can I specify the voltage and amps? The box size?

Then I need a sound-sensitive controller. Anyone know where these things can be found?

-Thanks

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:52 am

1. Try Jameco or Digikey (or maybe Mouser). Digikey is awesome, but has minimum orders. Jameco caters a bit more to individuals, so you get high prices per unit, but lower minimum order sizes. I know of mouser but haven't used them.

2. See what you can find in terms of AC/DC converters on those sites. My suspicion is that you are going to have a hard time finding something that doesn't have some size to it. Make sure you're careful about heat... and make sure you look for load ratings- that smaller switching supplies need to have a certain amount of load on them to stay regulated.

3. I'm not sure about this one.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:54 am

I've bought parts off of Mouser before, they still send me a catalog even though it has been something like 4 years since I used them last (bought replacement switches for sidewinder joysticks).

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:13 pm

First off don't try to mess around with AC, your insurance will be null and void if there's a fire and they discover the unit... even if it wasn't the source. There are plenty of ac-dc converters out there that are safe and wont kill you.

Get some kits and modify them to your use;
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/p ... mber=C6818

This looks like a good one, you can change the filter values to respond to different frequencies and change the led colours as well. Make your own patterns if you want too.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:30 pm

I wasn't planning on building an adapter, no way.

If there are no stealthier adapters other than a wall wart then I guess I can make do.

That kit looks perfect. Thanks. I wonder if I can bump that up to 12v. I'll be powering 72 LEDs (480mA) as well as this circuit.. Not sure if 9v will cut it?

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:49 am

Use a MOSFET to run higher current strings or take advantage of an already pre-built Solid State Relay and run your strings of LEDs. Goto OMRON and search for part # G3TC-ODC5 DC5
Cheaper than dirt and ready to go... Heck Mouser has them;
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omr ... rVQw%3d%3d

I'm thinking you'll actually use more than 480 ma. lighting up 72 leds at 20 ma each. The actual current will be around 1.44 amps with 72 LED's all on so a 3 amp relay would give you a safety margin.

The SSR I suggested will handle 3 continuous amps and a 5 amp surge. It isolates your low voltage control side from your higher current/voltage load side... safely. The only caveat is the SSR wants to see a 5 volt signal to light the internal led. That is easily solved if the kits you decide to use outputs a different voltage.

Cheapest, fastest, safest, way.

Ok if you want to spend some money then this is the place;
http://www.luxeonstar.com/
They have power converters you may be interested in too... fit in standard junction boxes so no ugly wallwarts for you.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:15 pm

I used http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz to generate the arrays. It gives me the total dissipation of diodes and resistors. What else will draw current?

Also, not all of them will be on at the same time. I'm planning on a color selector switch that will only allow one of the three colors at any one time. I'll have 18 blue (@30mA) 18 white (@20mA) and 36 red (@20mA)

Zantor · Post by **Zantor** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:08 pm

Gateway Electronics is a local, small St. Louis business that specializes in DIY electronics and gadgets. They have a lot of raw parts like capacitors, resistors, transistors, voltage regulators, inverters, and so on, and they have kits, batteries, tools, cables, and more. They do sell online, as the catalog on their site shows, and I bet you could order by phone if you want to. They have good prices and friendly, knowledgeable staff, and if I was making something myself, I would certainly buy parts from them.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:46 am

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/lights/831e/

Wow screw the colour organ... if you really want to I think it can be hacked to tie one in.

Also found these, not terribly bright but saves you a lot of time and you can move to an AC colour organ;
http://www.theledthing.com/store/3455121/product/P-30

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:19 pm

That P-30 might end up in my floor lamp, actually. I won't be lighting up the table with LEDs, though. I need a broad diffusion of light for the pool table that only incandescents (or florescents, but I hate them) can do. The LED's are only for effect. The red ones are going to be a night-light, the blue will match the sound-sensitive lights behind the TV, and the white will be for non-pool, general lighting.

I looked at this AC driver, and that would be ideal? I believe 700mA is usable, and maybe even more than I need. Let me describe the wiring path:

I'm going to come from that AC driver to a 4-way switch (red/white/blue/off).

From the Red setting, I'm going to branch out to a 6x6 array. 6 diodes (2.1V/20mA) and (1) 270ohm each line. Two lines will go to each of the three pool table lights, then return on a common line (after the resistors, I can combine the 2 lines into 1 to return?)
Resistors dissipate 648 mW, Diodes 1512 mW (=2160 mW) and pulls 120 mA

From the Blue setting, I'm going to wire to the sound controller, (which needs a cut to 9V, apparently), then out to a 9x2 array. 9 diodes (3.8V/30mA) and (1) 47ohm per line. Three lines will go to each of the three pool table lights, then return.
Resistors 380.7 mW, Diodes 2052 mW (=2432.7 mW) and pulls 270mA...just for the lights. I don't know what the kit pulls...doesn't say. I'm guessing it's pretty low to be able to use a 9V battery.

From the White setting, I'm going to branch out to a 6x3 array. 3 diodes (3.0V/20mA) and (1) 390ohm each line. Two lines will go to each of the three pool table lights, then return.
Resistors 936 mW, Diodes 1188 mW (=2124 mW) and pulls 120 mA.

Anything amiss in that layout? Also, that SSR would go between the driver and the switch, right?

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:02 pm

Hmm if you look at the power supply specs you'll see how its wired. Its not putting out 12 VDC so your resistors and calculations are all wrong with these power supplies. These power supplies take into account the diodes own forward voltage drop and self regulation cahracteristics and then use current to drive the Led strings so there are no dropping resistors. Also as to your led choices how many lumens are they? I think unless you purchase extremely bright leds your illumination levels are going to be very low and unusable at best. The leds being used at the Lux site are being run at 350 ma. and up... 10x the current you are talking about. These are state of the art Leds.

The SSR goes between the colour organ output and the string of LEDs... it uses a low voltage low current trigger to turn on a higher power/current leg in the LED string. As for powering the colour organ stick with a nine volt battery because without it illuminating the leds on the project board and firing just one ssr led the current draw will be pretty well the shelf life of the 9V battery. Also its safer and easier.

You can buy the ultra-bright leds, mounting pads, heat-sinks, and lenses and assemble a very bright LED string quite easily and get some very usable light. Check out these units for the concept;
http://www.leddynamics.com/LuxDrive/dat ... xStrip.pdf I know it's kind of pricey but if I were in your shoes and wanted something quick, easy, safe, and gives off usable light, I would just assemble a few of these strips in the colours I wanted. It looks like its goof-proof and saves a load of time.

*EDIT; after adding up the leds, and all the other parts these strips are pretty good deal.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:24 pm

OK found an awesome site;
http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm

Has power supplies for the old school method and a reasonable price list.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:10 am

I did all the calcs with 17.2V, per the drivers spec. Unless that LED array website is just tragically wrong, I need resistors to run the arrays. I can't mix and match the number of diodes to negate the need for resistors, because I will have a certain amount installed in each light fixture.

The LED's are all 5mm 2000mcd+. I'm still unsure about using 5mm or 8mm, I can adjust everything accordingly...but I think the 10mm's would be too big. I've seen what a few leds will do in projects from years ago, and 18 blue or white or 36 reds will be plenty bright. I'm not trying to light up a room with them, nor worry about daytime visibility.

The SSR goes between the colour organ output and the string of LEDs... it uses a low voltage low current trigger to turn on a higher power/current leg in the LED string. As for powering the colour organ stick with a nine volt battery because without it illuminating the leds on the project board and firing just one ssr led the current draw will be pretty well the shelf life of the 9V battery. Also its safer and easier.

You lost me on this. I won't be using a 9V battery, I'd be wiring the leads to the output of the switch. I'd have to knock it down to 9V, since the circuit is designed for 9V, unless I can just change some of the resistors and power it off the 17.2V

Are you also saying I don't need the SSR for the red/white runs? Only for the blue, because of the kit? Why doesn't the kit come with one, since I'm going to be wiring fewer LEDs than the kit shows?

I can't use the strips you linked, because these are going to be installed in a circle around the incandescent bulb in the fixture. Everything is going to be from scratch. I'll even have to take apart the color organ and redo the layout so I can fit it in the light bar, out of sight. That's going to be fun...

(The last site you linked could be handy for some other ideas I have, where I can use prefab.)