"Monster cables"

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:20 pm

I know a couple people around here have some quality pc speaker setups, so perhapse you guy could share any experiances you've had with "Monster cable" kits. I'm considering getting a set for my Klipsch, but I'm not sure how much a diffrence these things actually make. Any truly noticable diffrences in sound quality with the premium cables, or are they jsut a way to get another $30 out of you?

STRESSTEST · Post by **STRESSTEST** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:56 pm

the balance weighs heavy towards the "getting another 30 bucks outa you" side of things.

I changed the wire to all of the speakers on my logitech 400 watt system. I did it because the tiny little wire that came for the satallites was... well pathetic looking. So for me it was more asthetics. I used monster cable speaker wire and honestly did NOT notice any difference.

...but it looks better

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:09 pm

And we all know when it comes to sound systems appearance is everything.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:31 pm

The hierarchy of audio equipment is FRONT END FIRST, which makes speakers the LEAST important part of the sound system, and cables the second least important.

All a sounf reproduction device can do is faithfully pass the signal along to the next device in the chain.

By this method, we establish that the recording is the mostr important thing is music. The Player is #2. The interconnect between the player and the preamp is #3. Preamp is #4, connection cables between preamp and power amp are #5, power amp is #6, speaker cables #7 and speakers #8.

You can confirm this yourself by assembling 2 million dollars worth of stereo gear and listening to it through $100 speakers.

But try listeing to a 100$ stereo through $100,000 speakers and see how you get on.

In short, yes - cables will improve your sound quality, but if the items higher in the chain are less than stellar, then you won't notice any difference, because the signal in the cables is already ruined.

For my living room rig, I use 1200-strand, separated, annealed copper, 99.99% oxygen-free, Mission cable. It rocks, but it's about $30 per metre too. They're also 14 metres long each, so they HAVE to be good!

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:50 pm

Yup, it's all show.
http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm

I usually challenge anyone who says that they can hear a difference between Monster wire and regular "speaker zip cord" to a blind hearing test.
No one takes it.

The only thing that is discernable is a slight improvement of very high frequencies... but its way beyond a human's hearing range.

And I mean the only way your going to see this, is with a really expensive piece of equipment called a spectrum analyzer.

The peak in the graphic display is so small that the phosphor trace is bigger than the measurement.

They sure look purdy though

OMG Thought Monster Cable was bad?
Looky here!
http://www.puristaudiodesign.com/
Check out the "radiant light" series ROFL.

Choke Cough, look at this price list;
http://www.fatwyre.com/speaker_b2_04.html

The stupid gene exists and is obviously going strong in the wealthy crowd if they sell wires at these prices.

For 10 feet of speaker cable @ $15 Grand + US that wire better come with several blondes.
EEP!

Transparent Opus MM $30,750.00

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:52 pm

Mobius, you got suckered.

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:32 am

Monster cables = overpriced garbage.

bash · Post by **bash** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:41 am

Overpriced to the hilt.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:08 am

wires can make a difference, but in this case no. a serious audiophile can hear the difference between good and bad cables, but if you want a real quality cable you'll have to fork out way more than 30 bucks for some cheapo monster cable.

try something like cobalt cables or these types of wire if you want to hear a difference. wiring is probably the least important element of your sound system, but better cables will yield better results. dont expect them to triple the sound though

oh, and:

I usually challenge anyone who says that they can hear a difference between Monster wire and regular "speaker zip cord" to a blind hearing test.
No one takes it.

unless you have a high end stereo, no one would be able to hear a difference anyway. a mediocre stereo will sound mediocre on bad wires and on good ones.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:10 am

Canuck wrote:Mobius, you got suckered.

TRU TRU~! a sucker born every minute

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:13 am

If you are trying to push a lot of wattage through itty bitty wires you'll notice the difference for sure. But you could just go buy bigger gauge wire and fix that.

aldel · Post by **aldel** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:44 am

Mobius, I should know better than to argue with you, but I can't help it. Saying that speakers are the least important part is about as wrong as you can possibly be. Whatever part of the system reduces the sound quality the most is the most important part, and that's almost always the speakers (ignoring the recording quality, since you generally have to choose a recording based on your taste and not the sound quality). Even very good speakers introduce major distortions to the waveform, unlike good amplifiers or players. The difference between $100 speakers and $1000 speakers is huge, while the difference between a $100 amplifier or CD player and a $1000 one is pretty small.

As for cables, I have limited experience but I know quite a bit about electronics and sound, and it's conceivable that speaker cables would make a noticeable difference. (Interconnect cables are unlikely to matter much except at their ends, where a good connection is important-- gold plating is probably a good idea.) By far the most important thing is to keep the cables as short as possible. That's why professional studios (and my office/studio) have the amplifiers built into the speakers. Also it helps to have a separate amplifier for each driver (biamplified or triamplified speakers), so that you don't have to put a passive filter between the amp and the speaker.

I don't understand why biamped or triamped speakers aren't the standard for high-end home audio. It could be that home audiophiles are resistant to change, or it could be that the industry figures it can make more money by selling amps, speakers and absurdly overpriced cables separately.

If you have to have long cables, thicker is probably better (to minimize resistance), but I don't know how thick they have to be before you'll stop noticing a difference. Probably nowhere near as thick as Monster cables. High-end (not Monster) cables also try to minimize things like capacitance and inductance, and I have no idea whether it helps.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:36 pm

kurupt wrote:unless you have a high end stereo, no one would be able to hear a difference anyway. a mediocre stereo will sound mediocre on bad wires and on good ones.

I will blind test you with any amp of your choice, as long as I choose the proper gauge of wire you will not be able to tell period.

Crap like this;
Extremely neutral sound without harshness or glare
Detailed, natural, and open
Spacious soundstage with focused imaging

Is nothing but a huuuuge load meant to appeal to the buyer and sell cables.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:04 pm

i could notice a difference when i put together my first car stereo. i was using 8 guage wire to run for power and ground, becuase i didnt know any better. some time later i switched them for 0 guage.

huge difference.

you want to take my blind test? if you cant hear a difference between them than your ears arent good enough to pick up a difference in any other system either.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:59 pm

Forget about the Monsters. Go to Radio Shack and save a butt-load of $$.

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:13 pm

I'm afraid I have to go with Canuck on this one... anyone ever cut open monster cable to see just how big of a gauge wire it is? Its tiny! It can't be but 18 or 20 gauge wire, when 12-16 is what you want

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:42 pm

While I have klipsch speakers, I find I can distinguish more range of sounds with my sennheiser head phones. Then again I have tinninitus.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:58 pm

You can run 15 amps of electric service through 12 gauge copper wire, gotta be some royally badass speakers to require that.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:33 pm

Yeah, and you'd also need a completely dedicated power line to feed it.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:48 pm

If your an engineer type, can read a spectrum analyzer graph, and know what a Log scale is, then see for yourself what the expensive cables do to a signal vs lamp cord.

http://www.passlabs.com/pdf/spkrcabl.pdf

Keep in mind buddy had to sweep to 5 MHZ or even 50 MHZ to get any differences to display and that was only with twin conductor, (ie same design as TV twinlead) which with the high frequencies involved makes sense to me.

I bet anyone here that a 20HZ-20KHZ signal would have looked IDENTICAL on those traces hence the stoopid sweep ranges he had to use.

Note the differences in waveforms... very very small.
Way too small for us to hear.

I'd rather go get some 12 gauge cable for $250.00/1000' some nice Gold plated solid Brass banana plugs, make my own cables, and save the money fer beer.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:17 pm

i think we can all agree... monster cables = teh suck

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:14 pm

No, they're teh bling, or teh rice. Either way I won't bother now.

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:45 pm

This thread is now a giant sack of useless.

Glad you now see that monstar cabals aer teh ripoffs.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:50 am

Canuck wrote:I'd rather go get some 12 gauge cable for $250.00/1000' some nice Gold plated solid Brass banana plugs, make my own cables, and save the money fer beer.

That's what I said. Go to Radio Shack and you don't even have to build them your self. You now have more time to drink that beer

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:23 pm

the only time i pay attention to cable quality is when its Video and Digital Optical

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:17 pm

Cat6 networking cable can tansport sterio audio and a video signal quite a distance without degridation.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:03 am

I have a secret way to use Cat 5 (UTP) to carry SVGA over 75'.

I've used it on several jobs now.
No baluns, or boosters.

Saves a ton o' dough.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:33 am

Krom, I think you're slipping into warlock territory.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:34 am

You just have to believe it. Firmly.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:13 pm

Ferno wrote:Krom, I think you're slipping into warlock territory.

Actually, Krom's right. It'll do it quite nicely too! Its just that it costs an arm and a leg for the adapters from RJ45 to whatever i/o you're using. (Or if you're a mad solder wizard like Sickone, make your own.

)

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:17 pm

Naturally I made my own...

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:28 pm

"By this method, we establish that the recording is the mostr important thing is music"

STFU MOBIUS
A 96K 24 bit recording through a 1 inch radio shack speaker will sound like ★■◆●. Go home.

Monster cables are a premium scam, but I would say buying some cables with quality connectors is worth it, like switchcraft. Cheapies tend to get intermittent real fast.