Healthcare.

[Duper]

See who voted how HERE

(fixed typo:P)

[Gooberman]

I must admit, this is the most interesting CSPAN I have ever watched.

[Spidey]

Any bill that votes straight down party lines is probably flawed, and should worry people on both sides of the issue.

[TechPro]

Not probably, IS flawed and very seriously too, hence the supreme effort to FORCE voting along party lines.

[Isaac]

I must admit, this is the most interesting CSPAN I have ever watched.

Was there any singing like there was in 1776 CSPAN?

[Duper]

I must admit, this is the most interesting CSPAN I have ever watched.

hehe kinda. a lot of "grandstanding".

course I don't have much faith in the leadership of a president that gets up in front of cameras and tells America "Screw you, I'll sign this bill into existence as an executive order if it doesn't pass." (took some liberties of course)

Sounds like someone is going to throw a tantrum.

[Will Robinson]

I think, generally speaking, that a bill that divides completely along party lines is much more an indication that the two party's corrupt control over our elected representatives and thus the whole process of governing is a major flaw than it shows any particular bill is flawed.

It's like the daily horoscope in the newspaper.
To think what the future holds for everyone on the whole planet can be divided neatly into only twelve possible outcomes is what is flawed not that any of the twelve daily predictions are more or less correct than the others!

It's not that either the republicans or the democrats have the key to our bright future... it's the two Party's that are holding our future hostage demanding both ransom and fealty. So when a Sagittarian blames an Aquarian for bad government maybe you ought to reject the stupid horoscope!
Wake up and smell the future for yourself...the Taurus poop is getting pretty damn rancid out there!

[Kilarin]

It's not that either the republicans or the democrats have the key to our bright future... it's the two Party's that are holding our future hostage demanding both ransom and fealty.

Exactly. Republicans and Democrats alike are both dangerous, criminal, idiots.

[Duper]

America

6/4/1776 - 3/22/2010

R.I.P

[Gooberman]

America

6/4/1776 - 3/22/2010

R.I.P

Yes, imagine that. A politician doing what he said he was going to do, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again......

R.I.P. America, all you can do now is...vote to change it in November......

[Spidey]

So you blame the voters…me too.

[Isaac]

Just in case this is news to some of you, they can amend this law, moving forward. And be happy that all the debt created by our previous medical system will soon be paid for in tax dollars, which can actually be managed now. If done correctly this could be the best thing that's ever happened to our country and the dollar; securities, once stuck in this country, will now rank much higher.

The abortion compromise is similar to the Declaration of Independence compromise regarding slavery. They'll fix it, moving forward.

And to any tea party members: SHhhi-pwnd! Tea party= (bye+bye)/(fail)

[roid]

How dare Obama keep an election promise. Who does he think he is?

You know who else kept election promises? HITLER that's who.

First Obama will give the poor access to healthcare.
Then he'll give the Jews access to ovens.
Just you watch.

[Kilarin]

And be happy that all the debt created by our previous medical system will soon be paid for in tax dollars, which can actually be managed now.

Not unless they increase the tax load greatly. And that generally has VERY negative consequences across the board.

David Walker, the Comptroller General under G. W. Bush says that projected costs after the Baby boomers all retire for Soc Sec, Medicare and Medicaid alone are enough to bankrupt the United States. BANKRUPT. He says we simply do NOT have the money to pay those bills. You could drop the military, welfare, EVERYTHING else from the budget except for those three programs and we would still be heading for bankruptcy.

So, unless this new plan is going to increase taxes right through the roof, it won't be able to fix the problem.

[Gooberman]

I may watch Glenn Beck tommorow, I hope he crys. All your country are belong to us.

[Skyalmian]

This is interesting. Now I shall more closely follow The Tenth Amendment Center to see whether the States will nullify the federal law into oblivion like they successfully did with Real ID (and are now doing so with gun control and marijuana use). Nullification of federal laws that have no Constitutional authority being laws is making a very wonderful comeback; local people power! (On a State level, anyway.)

[Isaac]

I'm having trouble finding a copy of the current bill. Make fun of me if you want for wanting help, but give me the url if you have it.

[AlphaDoG]

http://www.opencongress.org/senate_health_care_bill

[Grendel]

That's H.R. 3590. You're looking for H.R. 4872.

[AlphaDoG]

One has been passed by both houses of Congress the one you point to Gren has yet to appear in the Senate. President Obama will sign the one I pointed Isaac to tomorrow.


EDIT* OK now I am confused. Grendel is right he points to the bill that will go to the senate for reconciliation. Which if I am correct includes the one I point to. *EDIT

[woodchip]

And be happy that all the debt created by our previous medical system will soon be paid for in tax dollars, which can actually be managed now.

Not unless they increase the tax load greatly. And that generally has VERY negative consequences across the board.

David Walker, the Comptroller General under G. W. Bush says that projected costs after the Baby boomers all retire for Soc Sec, Medicare and Medicaid alone are enough to bankrupt the United States. BANKRUPT. He says we simply do NOT have the money to pay those bills. You could drop the military, welfare, EVERYTHING else from the budget except for those three programs and we would still be heading for bankruptcy.

So, unless this new plan is going to increase taxes right through the roof, it won't be able to fix the problem.

To add to Kilarin's post:

"Moody’s Warning

While Treasuries backed by the full faith and credit of the government typically yield less than corporate debt, the relationship has flipped as Moody’s Investors Service predicts the U.S. will spend more on debt service as a percentage of revenue this year than any other top-rated country except the U.K. America will use about 7 percent of taxes for debt payments in 2010 and almost 11 percent in 2013, moving “substantially” closer to losing its AAA rating, Moody’s said last week. "

Lose the AAA rating and we will enter the slide into being a 3rd world nation. But what the hey...we needed to pass a health care plan where every one will wind up using emergency rooms...if they can find one that is open.

[CUDA]

This is interesting. Now I shall more closely follow The Tenth Amendment Center to see whether the States will nullify the federal law into oblivion like they successfully did with Real ID (and are now doing so with gun control and marijuana use). Nullification of federal laws that have no Constitutional authority being laws is making a very wonderful comeback; local people power! (On a State level, anyway.)

Violation of the 9th Amendment also

plus it's probably a violation of the interstate commerce clause also

[Duper]

America

6/4/1776 - 3/22/2010

R.I.P

Yes, imagine that. A politician doing what he said he was going to do, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again......

R.I.P. America, all you can do now is...vote to change it in November......

That's not quite what I meant. We've now shown ourselves that we can get anything we want if you have all your own "dogz in da houze". (Pardon the vernacular)

Sure we can turn it over. (if you're lucky) but it will be back and forth for a decade or better now that that can is open. Our system is one of checks and balances. Not so much perhaps in the case within a particular department as the legislative but it works that way too. I think this is one reason the founding fathers were against organized political parties. They saw this same thing happening over 200 years ago.

[Insurrectionist]

Political infighting always will be a common trait in any Governing system, and powerful people will fall victim to the whims of politicians. The social instability that are a result from inequities in our system will give way to rise of demagogues.(cough Obama cough) Some how this all sound so familiar

Oh yes it was Hitler.j/k

No it sound a lot like how one of the first republics died.

Fall of the Roman Republic

While tradition and some semblance of power would remain, the foundation of government under a single figure was a requirement to continue the advancement of the Empire. It was Augustus who proved to be the one man great and powerful enough to control the Senate, the mob and the Legions. Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus Augustus rose above all the great Romans before him to outlast political opponents, reform a corrupt government and stabilize a system in disarray. The Fall of the Republic was inevitable, but fortunately for Rome, the right man at the right time was there to step in as the first Roman Emperor.

[Isaac]

Thanks for the URLs for the bill!

[Duper]

Roid, campaign promises are one thing. no one really expects them to come through with those ... only the very short of memory do. Raping the entire legislative system to get your way is an entirely different matter.

insurrectionist, Great comparison.

[dissent]

Just in case this is news to some of you, they can amend this law, moving forward. And be happy that all the debt created by our previous medical system will soon be paid for in tax dollars, which can actually be managed now. If done correctly this could be the best thing that's ever happened to our country and the dollar; securities, once stuck in this country, will now rank much higher.

The abortion compromise is similar to the Declaration of Independence compromise regarding slavery. They'll fix it, moving forward.

And to any tea party members: SHhhi-pwnd! Tea party= (bye+bye)/(fail)

So, you trust the government, moving forward, do you? Good luck with that.

If you are swallowing the CBO "score" and it's Democratic rhetorical fog whole, then perhaps you should consider some additional perspective. I give you, Harvard econ professor N. Gregory Mankiw:

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2010/03/ ... ahead.html
(and links therein)

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2010/03/ ... m-cbo.html

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2010/03/ ... oring.html

[Nightshade]

A slip of the tongue perhaps?

http://www.breitbart.tv/shocking-audio- ... the-people

[woodchip]

Not a slip of the tongue TB, rather a blurt letting us know what the end game is all about.

[dissent]

The abortion compromise is similar to the Declaration of Independence compromise regarding slavery. They'll fix it, moving forward.

oh, btw, as I recall the compromises that ensued from the birth of the country regarding slavery ended up being decided in a civil war, not by the gentle and beneficent workings of Congress.

Is that the kind of "fix" you expect, "moving forward"?

[Insurrectionist]

[Isaac]

I see a movie in this: \"Brave Womb\"
Freeeeedooooomb!!!

[VonVulcan]

Surprises keep popping up about what’s in the Obamacare bill. For instance, W-2s must now declare the value of your health care benefits; businesses of 50 or more employees MUST provide a private area (not a bathroom) for nursing mothers to use their breast pumps for a year after giving birth (not sure where in the Constitution they get that power); insurance premiums are expected to rise 17% for young people after the mandate kicks in, because insurance companies are prohibited from charging older folks more; tanning salons now have a 10% Federal tax imposed on them.

[Insurrectionist]

tanning salons now have a 10% Federal tax imposed on them.

[sarcasm]That isn't one bit leveled against one race is it.[/sarcasm]

[Top Gun]

tanning salons now have a 10% Federal tax imposed on them.

[sarcasm]That isn't one bit leveled against one race is it.[/sarcasm]

If by "race" you mean "the total idiots who use tanning booths," then yes.

[*SilverFJ]

Things turn you orange.

[Isaac]

How now, ? lolol my god i'm an idiot

But I don't think the booths turn your orange. There is a tanning spray that does that. I've never seen anyone who uses it, though. Except on TV.

[*SilverFJ]

I've only met one orange girl, but she said tanning did it to her.

[Isaac]

Oh ok.

[*SilverFJ]

Maybe it was the spray. I dunno. She just said tanning. I was being a drunk ★■◆● tho.