Are ghosts real?

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm

Just to be clear:
\"According to traditional belief, a ghost is the soul or spirit of a deceased person, taken to be capable of appearing in visible form or otherwise manifesting itself to the living.\"

The correct answer is no, but go ahead and make a choice. I would really like to know how many people actually believe in ghosts on this forum, for perspective.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:24 pm

Doesn't stating a \"correct answer\" negate the validity of the responses?

Insurrectionist · Post by **Insurrectionist** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:12 am

This is about the worst Trolling topic then the one I put up. I refuse to vote

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:32 am

No opinion?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:05 am

watching a lot of ghost hunter lately?

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:51 am

Is Isaac the official DBB troll?

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:01 am

Top Gun wrote:Doesn't stating a "correct answer" negate the validity of the responses?

Yes. And it means I'm an evil jerk.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:47 am

Insurrectionist wrote:This is about the worst Trolling topic then the one I put up. I refuse to vote

Agreed, his charm wore off about 2 years ago, nothing more than regurgitated spam from other boards

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:11 am

Laadeedaadeedaa.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:56 am

find something more productive to do issac, this is getting annoying.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:27 pm

Ferno wrote:watching a lot of ghost hunter lately?

"OMGWTFBBQ I ALMOST SAW SOMETHING!!!!"

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:38 pm

fliptw wrote:find something more productive to do issac, this is getting annoying.

Ok.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:59 pm

I really don't see why this is a trolling topic. A significant portion of the population believes in ghosts. 48% according to this 2005 cbs poll: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/ ... 4766.shtml

So, why wasn't it a legitimate question?

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:05 pm

Kilarin wrote:So, why wasn't it a legitimate question?

I guess, because, I should have been more neutral in the first post. My writing comes off as trollish and condescending, garnished with assumptions that are used as facts.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:35 pm

I thought about voting \"yes\" just to be annoying.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:16 pm

I don't believe that the spirits of dead people have access to the world as we know it. I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of ghosts/spirits, and people being able to perceive them under certain circumstances, but I don't accept their claims to humanity.

Sickone · Post by **Sickone** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:55 pm

Isaac,

The fact the you 'know' the answer is NO... only tells me you have not had a ghost 'manifest'...

Those who have seen Ghosts clearly still use the drugs I gave up 20 years ago
(exactly 20 years today as a matter of fact)

Without stating my actual opinion, one might ask.
If I have never seen a ghost, is it because of me ?
Do ghosts not appear to DBB Trolls ?
Am I not worthy of a ghost ?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:12 pm

Cut Throat’s Ghost was real, and mighty scary too…

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:27 pm

The same people who see ghosts report alien abductions! LOL!

The_Traveler · Post by **The_Traveler** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:16 pm

How about the holy ghost and the spirit of god do those count?

TheWhat · Post by **TheWhat** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:21 pm

The_Traveler wrote:How about the holy ghost and the spirit of god do those count?

No.

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:25 pm

The_Traveler wrote:How about the holy ghost and the spirit of god do those count?

You will NEVER see the HOLY Ghost, you will ONLY experience it.

TheWhat · Post by **TheWhat** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:38 pm

AlphaDoG wrote:
The_Traveler wrote:How about the holy ghost and the spirit of god do those count?
You will NEVER see the HOLY Ghost, you will ONLY experience it.

Wow. I'm convinced... hows the twinkies and $20,000 worth of stolen movies and music treatin' ya, thou shall not steal?

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:45 pm

Ghosts, as described by the top post, are not real.

Sickone · Post by **Sickone** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:53 pm

Ghosts, Gods, Monsters and many more...
Are often real or unreal based on our beliefs.

The best I have ever heard it put is...

\"Faith requires no proof, and proof requires no faith\"

It is always interesting to hear someones beliefs(if it can be done in a matter a fact kind of way).
Some very interseting stuff...

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:17 pm

Hard Materialism
★■◆● YEAH

*SilverFJ · Post by *SilverFJ » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:41 pm

How is this a bad topic? The Cafe is for stuff like this. He might think no himself, but that doesn't remove the posibility of his interest in other people's opinions.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:47 pm

*SilverFJ wrote:How is this a bad topic?

It's not a bad topic, just poorly presented.

Now, IMO:

I believe there are spirits, possibly of many different types. This includes human spirits. I don't believe human spirits commonly or trivially manifest, though I do believe it possible in extreme circumstances (Biblical example: Samuel's spirit appears to Saul and the witch of Endor in 1 Sam 28.) I'm extremely skeptical regarding the "ghost stories" I've heard, wherein human spirits are active for long periods of time, either communicating with people or jacking with the environment.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:57 pm

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Acts 2:29,34 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand

Ecc 9:5,6,10 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
...
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Ps 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

John 11:11-14 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

I don't believe in ghosts because my study of the Bible indicates that death is like a deep, dreamless sleep. There is no thought or knowledge in the grave. The dead, both righteous and wicked (with a few exceptions such as Elijah and Enoch), are asleep in their graves awaiting the resurection.

The Samuel example that Lothar quotes doesn't, in my opinion, make sense as an actual \"ghost\". In the first place, if Samuel's ghost could be \"called up\", that would be in conflict with the above texts (as well as many others). In the second place, even if the souls of the dead WERE awake and conscious, would God allow the spirit of a righteous man to be compelled to leave heaven and visit earth because a satan worshiper commanded it?

This story makes much more sense if the \"ghost\" that Saul witnessed was mearly a demonic trick.

Speaking of mediums, have any of you read: Houdini: A Magician Among the Spirits By Harry Houdini? It's an incredibile book. It's too bad its not at Gutenberg yet, but it's well worth the price. Houdini went to many, many mediums looking for evidence that they could contact the dead. He had an open mind and was hoping to be able to speak with his mother. However, in all of his years of examinations and searching, he did not encounter a single medium that did anything supernatural. Every one of them turned out to be using magicians tricks to fool their customers.

One of Houdini's friends was a leader in the spiritualist movement, Sir Author Conan Doyle. Yes, the same Doyle who wrote \"Sherlock Holmes\" was a Spiritualist. It strained their friendship quit a bit because Doyle kept discovering new mediums that he had proven \"beyond a shadow of a doubt\" were in touch with the supernatural. Every time Houdini examined them, he discovered only trickery. Some people actually theorize that Doyle had Houdini killed to stop the damage he was doing to his religion.

I believe that, on very rare occasions, Satan may actually create the illusion of ghosts. But the VAST majority of this phenomena can be explained by human gullibility, human deception, and frequently a combination of the two.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:13 pm

Sorry for the double post, I've been trying to edit for 15 minutes and getting nothing but errors.

What I meant to add was that the concept that the Samuel apparition was demonic rather than ghostly is in complete harmony with Lothar's statement that there are more than one kind of Spirit.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:05 pm

That sounds like an interesting book; Houdini: A Magician Among the Spirits. It might be junk reading, but what do I own that isn't? :p

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:44 pm

Now that it was mentioned

It was officially the 80th anniversary for Twinkies earlier this week.

If you saw an orginal Twinkie today, would it be a ghost or an bad nightmare?

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:27 pm

Bubbalou wrote:If you saw an orginal Twinkie today, would it be a ghost or an bad nightmare?

Zombie

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:37 pm

BUBBALOU wrote: If you saw an orginal Twinkie today, would it be a ghost or an bad nightmare?

Petrified!

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:39 pm

Xamindar wrote:
BUBBALOU wrote: If you saw an orginal Twinkie today, would it be a ghost or an bad nightmare?
Petrified!

lol! The horror!

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:41 pm

Considering that I grew up in a house that had ghosts, and that both my mother and her mother can both see them (being descendants of an American Indian shaman ancestor), and that I myself have been screamed at by one, yes, they are \"real\" to me, for I have experienced them.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:54 pm

Oh, you have not!

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:14 pm

Skyalmian wrote:Considering that I grew up in a house that had ghosts, and that both my mother and her mother can both see them (being descendants of an American Indian shaman ancestor), and that I myself have been screamed at by one, yes, they are "real" to me, for I have experienced them.

ROTF!!!

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:22 pm

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:57 pm

Isaac wrote:Oh, you have not!

Not the most USEFUL answer. "Did so!", "Did NOT!", doesn't really get us anywhere. I see no reason to believe Skyalmain is lying to us about his experience.

Skyalmain wrote: they are "real" to me, for I have experienced them.

But that brings us to a problem with experience. Your experience is probably not going to be adequate proof for most of us. Actually, My OWN experience would not be adequate. If I saw a ghost myself, that would not be proof that it was a human soul as opposed to trickery, demonic influence, hallucination, or misinterpreted natural phenomenon.

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